Microfoaming and the 'pfft' sound I am missing

[mattwells]

I have just received my Counter Culture and while I was dialing in the grind (which was DRASTICALLY different than the grind I was using for a locally roasted coffee), I decided to try and work on my microfoaming skills that I had stopped in frustration. I searched the archives, read what I could find (even went over to coffeegeek and read there), and found this video of proper foaming:

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One thing I noticed about my microfoaming is that I am not getting the noises he is. The note added to the video says the 'pff' sound is indicative of the milk stretching, and I get no 'pff' at all. On CG they suggested using Organic Whole milk, and I may pick up some this evening to use. Anyone else find the Organic milk helpful?

Could my lack of the stretching noise be related to my 2% milk? Could it be lack of steaming power? I am having trouble getting anything but warm milk (ie. there is no point in using the steam wand when I could just heat it up in a sauce pan).

Thanks for any tips,
Matt

[Paul L]

Matt, stay with it, it's all down to technique and patience.

Since scrapping the Krups I had for years, I started with milk from scratch on my first Gaggia. It was slow and weak but day by day I learned exactly what to do and where to keep the tip of the single-hole nozzle. I got damned good with it learning that minute movements were key. I had the Gaggia for six months.

When I switched to a more powerful, 3-hole steam wand on my Pavoni it took me 61 days, yes 61 days solid, day after day of tipping flat, hot milk down the sink or drinking flat but tasty coffee until I cracked it. Totally different technique in terms of the tip, the angles, the speed of adjustment etc. I used the Pavoni for 6 months.

I have been using my Expobar Brewtus II now for nearly two weeks. Right from the start this was back to the slow accurate technique I learned first albeit there's instant and abundant power in reserve but this is a doddle. Only due to going through the pain of much failure in previous months though!

Some thoughts (and encouragement!):

- first of all, I have only ever used semi-skimmed milk as we call it in the UK.

- One pro said to me there's no such thing as bad milk, if you can froth you can froth with anything

- Another said one of the hardest parts is to stop stretching long before you think you need to.

- You should purge any wand first with a few blasts to remove water.

- You should be as fast as possible in plunging the wand and raising the tip to the surface to get the ch-ch-ch sound. Too high and you get big bubbles, too low and you're heating and not stretching, you do need minute adjustments and, to my mind, what takes time is the development of our motor skills required to make incredibly fine adjustments and also our experience to recognise signs of what is happening.

- Try placing the wand in different positions, try leaning against adjacent objects to ensure you are rock-solid steady

- Relax, practise and practise.

I see absolutely no reason to think you will be any worse at microfoaming than the next person and you will get there. If you had someone beside you who can do it that picture would paint a thousand words. Try and locate someone in your area if nothing else whom you can visit. I did not have this and persevered but there are different was of getting the knowledge you need to get going.

[HB]

One thing I noticed about my microfoaming is that I am not getting the noises he is. The note added to the video says the 'pff' sound is indicative of the milk stretching, and I get no 'pff' at all.

Not getting any good pff? That's indeed a problem.

Paul's advice to be patient is so true. But it does help if the steam arm / tip are well balanced to the boiler's output. Today's Pulser's ship with a one-hole tip that is quite slow-n-easy. At one time, I think, it shipped with a barrel-shaped tip that was stock on the Isomacs and other machines including my La Valentina at the time. It was major pain to work with! You can read about it and others in the thread Gold Pro 2 Steam Wand Tip. Changing tips may be the just the tip (*groan*).

[mattwells]

I have a 3 hole tip (bought the Expobar used, and the single had been replaced) on mine. I think that having the 3 hole tip and having to angle it (by necessity, from the Pulser's straight wand) is a detriment, but I don't think it should be this hindering. I bought some Whole Organic, and am going to try to get the 'pff' sound, that is my first goal.

I tried following the direction on the WholeLatteLove site, even though it seemed slightly contradictory to what I had heard elsewhere. They plunge the tip to the bottom until the milk reaches about 100, then raise the tip. I had always heard opposite (keep tip near top until 100 and then plunge/whirlpool), but the WLL method did not help any. Still got warm milk.

UPDATE: I tried it with the whole milk, and still got warm milk. Nothing more. Not even the hint of a 'pff'. Not even soap bubbles (I could have forced some by playing the tip above the milk, but that wouldn't have helped). I am wondering if it is because of low steam pressure/volume. I don't have a pressure gauge for the steam wand, but may try bypassing my pump gauge and plugging it up to the wand to see what it reads. The three hole tip may be an issue, but I am wondering if it is something more.

EDIT: I also know that it takes the Expobar a while to heat up milk, but it took about 2.5 minutes to bring 9 oz. or so up to temp. That seemed a little long...

[HB]

I tried following the direction on the WholeLatteLove site, even though it seemed slightly contradictory to what I had heard elsewhere. They plunge the tip to the bottom until the milk reaches about 100, then raise the tip. I had always heard opposite...

Introduce air first (stretching), then plunge the tip and swirl (texturing).

I also know that it takes the Expobar a while to heat up milk, but it took about 2.5 minutes to bring 9 oz. or so up to temp. That seemed a little long...

Seemed a little long? That's an understatement.

I used the Expobar Lever for a few months and gave the Pulser a quick spin at EspressoFest 2004. It was no speed demon, but should clock slightly over a minute for 10 ounces (just checked... the WLL website says 81 seconds). It sounds like your boiler pressure may be set very low, which would serve the needs of an espresso-only barista. I read about a "poor man's" way of checking the steam pressure - buy a length of brake hose, two hose clamps, and a tire gauge. Clamp the tire gauge onto the steam arm and voila, instant boiler pressure reading.

Disclaimer: Hot water and steam can be dangerous, be careful! Verify the hose can handle the temperature and pressure.

By the way, I think your steam tip may be the one labeled "S24" below:



I bought it years ago from WLL for my Silvia. It and the "old std" one above battle for top honors on my most-loathed steam tip list.

[mattwells]

Dan,
It looks like I do have the S24 tip. I may have to bite the $10 bullet and get a 2 hole.

I searched to try and find instructions on how to change steam pressure, but could not find anything. Does the fact my machine has a PID (installed by previous owner) make a difference on steam pressure? I thought it controlled the boiler pressure, but I don't know if that effects steam pressure. I have added a pic of the internals of my machine, if it helps. It seems that I would need to turn something on the large brass thing that connects to the steam wand line, but I may be wrong.



This, like most of my threads, should now be in a different area of the forum.

[HB]

Does the fact my machine has a PID (installed by previous owner) make a difference on steam pressure? I thought it controlled the boiler pressure, but I don't know if that effects steam pressure.

A PID'd HX espresso machine? Oops, I missed that "minor" detail.

Ken modified his Cimbali Junior to control the boiler with a PID instead of a pressurestat; searching on "PID" and author "Ken Fox" reveals a treasure trove of HX PID information. I assume yours is a similar setup. You can twiddle the steam pressure by changing your PID setting. Depending on the sensor's location, the offset from the actual boiler temperature (and thus steam pressure) will differ. A saturated steam table will map between boiler temperature and steam pressure. Recall that the table is in atmospheres (starts at 1.0), not gauge pressure (starts at 0.0); for example, a good pressure for steaming is 1.1 bar or interior boiler temperature of 251F.

It seems that I would need to turn something on the large brass thing that connects to the steam wand line, but I may be wrong.

Looks like a safety release valve to me, not a pressurestat. Some PID HX modders leave the pressurestat in place as an added safety should the PID go haywire, but more than likely your boiler's temperature (and thus boiler pressure) is entirely PID-controlled.

[cannonfodder]

Steam pressure and boiler temp are relational. The hotter the boiler, the more steam you get. What temperature is you PID set at?

[Paul L]

I knew help would arrive Matt and you're in good hands.

I am using the stock centred 1-hole on the Brewtus by the way and have no complaints. I don't time my milk preparation but I'm using a 12oz jug with 6oz milk and this tip is perfect. Sure it's not fast but it's not 2.5 minutes so something sounds awry. I should time it but haven't so I can only say that it's no more than a minute and in reality probably half that.

If I move to a bigger jug at some point then I'll no doubt find a 2-hole preferable but for the volume of milk I use each time I just don't need that extra speed. It's worth thinking about what what your needs really are.

When I moved to the 3-hole Pavoni was when my trouble started. The speed, the inability to place the tip of the wand where I had done with a 1-hole Gaggia, the need to use different angles, different plunge and stretch adjustments. On the surface (sic), the two techniques were the same but the more I learned the more I realised how different they were to the casual eye.

It's times like this that I recall my old martial arts Master's tale (a true one) about the master that would only teach a wannabe student one punch and kick. That's it, of the vast World he could have taught him. However, that student mastered these basics of course and infinite variations and tangents himself and won an ancient Chinese tradition called the battle of the ribbons. I suppose microfoaming is a bit of a passage of rites!

I would still say, change nothing. You will get to grips with it, master it and then change the tip. It will probably throw you off course and you'll relearn but in the process you'll become very accomplished. I know, I know, all you want is a cup of coffee, not a zen workout or a tea ceremony!...

[rgs1218]

Matt,

I've have had my Pulser for about a month. I found producing good microfoam difficult with the original steam tip (old standard in Dan's pic) and had seen multiple recommendations for a 2 hole tip (available at multiple vendors). I switched to this tip and haven't looked back.

I haven't checked my boiler pressure yet (gonna make the cheap gauge Dan described, saw pics of it at CG) but I'm almost positive I'm running hot (long flushes needed, ramps back up to temp very fast) and I had pretty powerful steam with the old tip. The new tips seems to control steam flow better--takes me less than a minute for 6 oz.--and I'm now getting great microfoam. Minor dilemma now is finding ideal point to plunge the wand in order to get best consistency.

Here's what I do to get that phfft phfft sound. Lower wand into milk, start steam flow, then raise tip just out of milk at surface. I then quickly and ever so slightly lower the tip into milk and voila, phfft phfft. Then just surf the tip at the surface, slightly lowering the pitcher as the milk is stretched. You may get a soap bubble or two but they quickly disappear during the rest of the process. I'm steaming exclusively for cappas so right now, I seem to get best texture buy plunging the tip into milk at about 85-90 degrees F, but it goes quick with small amounts of milk and if I goes longer, I get stiffer foam. Shut off the steam around 150 degrees F, swirl and tap on counter and I'm good to go. Now using that nice microfoam to create anything resembling art is a different story.

A couple other minor tips that help me:

- I steam using a 12 oz. pitcher with a pointed spout. I rest the steam wand in the spout and angle it towards the center of the pitcher as needed.

- My new tip produces 2 streams that shoot outward (guessing it creates roughly a 75-90 degree angle with tip?) I get best results (nice whirlpooling) by orienting these streams perpendicular to the spout (i.e. if spout points E, streams go N and S, when looking down into the pitcher)

Hope some part of my brief experience helps.

Russ

[mattwells]

Okay, a new update: I kicked my PID up to 245, but there was no real improvement to my steaming. I may try and make a video if anyone thinks that would help.

Dan, do you think soldering over one of the holes on the wand may help? My thought was to put non-lead solder on it to make the 3-hole a 2-hole. Also, do you know if it is possible to retrofit a steam arm with a bend onto the pulser?

When stretching, should the tip be just below, or just on top of the milk? The video shows just underneath, but I was curious. My wife (former *$'s PBTC) told me she didn't care about microfoam in her latte, so I worked the tip for big, soapy foam. She liked it, but that is the only foam I have gotten with the machine, by aggressively working the tip in and out of the milk.

Still no 'pff.'

[HB]

I may try and make a video if anyone thinks that would help.

That would help. The sound will be a dead giveway to the cause of the problem.

Dan, do you think soldering over one of the holes on the wand may help? My thought was to put non-lead solder on it to make the 3-hole a 2-hole. Also, do you know if it is possible to retrofit a steam arm with a bend onto the pulser?

Tips are cheap. I recommend the current stock 1-hole tip (slow but easy) and one of the "low volume" tips (e.g., Gold Pro II, EPNW two-hole s/s tip). There's a good chance you could find a S-curve steam arm for your Pulser that would bolt right on or could be coaxed on with fitting adapters, but it may be pricey. Several Wega Lyra buyers complained about the stock steam arm on it and TerryZ sourced a good replacement (I think it was a common steam arm for Cimbalis). Look at their site, take some measurements, and give them a call.

When stretching, should the tip be just below, or just on top of the milk? The video shows just underneath, but I was curious.

Just below. Depending on the machine's steaming power, "just below" varies from a few millimeters to over 1/2".

Still no 'pff.'

If your PID is that high and still no pff, I assume the boiler pressure is dropping like a rock... if so, try another tip.

[jrtatl]

IMHO, that 3-hole tip "blows." (pun intended). I found it to be worse on my Expobar than the old 2-hole stock tip that came with my unit. The 3-hole tip is the worst I've ever used.

IMHO. the new 1-hole tips from WLL are the best for steaming less than 10-12oz of milk. The 2-hole from EPNW is very fast, and is good for amounts greater than 10-12oz.

I keep my boiler pressure relatively low, as my machine tends to run hot no matter what. Even with low boiler pressure, I can steam milk in a respectable time. I tend to stretch to 90deg then plunge and whirlpool to 160deg or so.

Ditch the 3-hole, and give the 1-hole a try.

YMMV.

[Psyd]

Dan, do you think soldering over one of the holes on the wand may help? My thought was to put non-lead solder on it to make the 3-hole a 2-hole.

Do not solder it. Use a toothpick. I have two steam arms on mine, both with a five-hole tip. These steamy giants are way too much when I want to steam for or five ounces for a capp or two, so one has three of the five blocked with toothpick tips. Work the tip of the toothpick straight into the hole, and then work it back and forth (sorta like screwing it into the hole) and once you are unable to get it any further, break it off. Repeat as necessary. Once you get in as many as you think you need, run a bit of steam through the wand reeeeeeeal slow, to soak the wood. The wood will expand in the hole and seal it up really well, and still be easily removed if you want to. Once the wood is soaked and set, steam a pitcher of water aggressively to see that the toothpick tips are gonna stay put. I have not lost a toothpick tip out of any of the three in my wand, and the 14 litre boiler at 1.2 bar can generate a buncha steam pressure!

[mattwells]

Psyd- The toothpick trick is a stroke of genius.

I blocked 2 holes and tried it, nothing but screaming. I spent the whole time varying depth, position, angle, anything I could think of, but the milk did nothing but scream at me. Pulled the wood out of one of the holes and steamed with 2 holes. Nothing again. Again, I varied every aspect I could physically vary, and nothing but screaming. The only sound besides the milk scream I could get was when I was holding the tip close to the bottom and got what sounded like air hitting the metal.

Frustrating, but I am going to keep trying. When my wife and I move into our house I am contemplating getting a commercial lever machine. If so, this will all be a moot point. I am used to making microfoam on a commercial (although, my technique will need some adjustment, I can't imagine it will be as much).

Of course this is contingent upon things working as I hope with the house. I would still like to be able to make microfoam on a home machine, but until we move I am not going to buy a new tip (just one more thing to move) so it will have to wait.

Matt

[Psyd]

Psyd- The toothpick trick is a stroke of genius.

Yeah, I get that alot... ; >

It sounds as if you've buried the tip too deep. That 'screaming' sound usually accompanies the tip too deep too soon. The tip on yours, with the two holes blocked, should be about one-third submerged and two-thirds above the surface. It should have a sound similar to sipping soup. If it splashes and gurgles, to shallow, if it just screams, too deep.
If that doesn't work, send me the machine. I'll see what I can do with it. If I can get microfoam, it's not the machine...

[LeoZ]

im new to HX machines myself, but from my handful of practices with froth, it seems that on my giotto P i *just* place the tip in the milk to get the proper starting sound. i can still see the top 2/3 of the tip when the frothing starts. (the stock tip has 2 holes pointing straight down) so, i think ive got my first half down, i just cant whirlpool for the life of me! HTH!

[mattwells]

Yeah, I get that alot... ; >

It sounds as if you've buried the tip too deep. That 'screaming' sound usually accompanies the tip too deep too soon. The tip on yours, with the two holes blocked, should be about one-third submerged and two-thirds above the surface. It should have a sound similar to sipping soup. If it splashes and gurgles, to shallow, if it just screams, too deep.
If that doesn't work, send me the machine. I'll see what I can do with it. If I can get microfoam, it's not the machine...

I assumed the tip was to deep as well, but no matter how high I raised it it still screamed--tomorrow I will try again, more patiently. I wonder if I am listening to much for the sound I can get from a commercial machine (I always thought it sounded like tearing newspaper). Will the home machine sound any different, or just behave differently?

[cannonfodder]

Will the home machine sound any different, or just behave differently?

Yes and yes.

While the sound will be similar, the pitch will be different. A commercial machine has larger openings (most of the time) and higher velocity steam. I get a deeper pitch from my commercial machine. The higher volume and velocity steam creates a much larger and faster whirlpool motion than a home machine will. It all has to do with the capacity of the boiler. The larger the boiler, the more steam you have, the faster and more turbulent the steaming action. The size and shape of the pitcher also has an effect.

[jesawdy]

The size and shape of the pitcher also has an effect.

This is what I was thinking.... you might try a different pitcher. I have a straight sided pitched and a sloped sided pitcher. I can whirlpool in both but you have to get the wand positioned properly. I must admit, getting it to whirlpool seems to be difficult at times.

My guess is practice is needed. I had my best microfoam experience (still learning) last weekend. I've been playing (albeit not a lot of milk based) for about 2 months.

From my limited experience, "screaming" indicates that you are too deep, or do not have the steam wand valve open far enough.

Do you feel like you are getting adequate steam when you open the wand into an empty cup?