Mazzer Mini E vs Mahlkoenig K30 Vario

[Richard]

Has anyone used both these grinders to the extent they can offer informed observations vis-a-vis taste in the cup? Quality of construction? Or anything else for that matter. I'm interested in firsthand knowledge, not opinion gleaned from reading reviews and websites and blogs; that, I can do for myself.

[kwksilver]

I cannot say a single thing about grind quality.
however i can say something about engineering quality of the internals.
Mazzer quickly outdoes most Italian competitors in this department. (steel grade of burrs, mechanical tolerances...)

These things are not immediately apparent to the eye or end user.

However, you picked Mahlkoenig of all brands. They are an entire universe from italian engineering in general.
I honestly have no idea if they managed to capture the grinding goals of espresso, but a friend of mine who studied engineering in Aachen after we graduated with an Abitur in germany works for a company that is a supplier to them...
long story short: Their internal component quality is complete overkill. Truly fantastic. Like a Merc from the 70's.

If you can get someone to showcase the grind comparison to you, I am 100% certain that while Mazzer is exceptional in quality Mahlkoenig does quality on a level not normally present in the espresso world.

[gscace]

Has anyone used both these grinders to the extent they can offer informed observations vis-a-vis taste in the cup? Quality of construction? Or anything else for that matter.

I owned a mini-e for a year or so. I recently had occasion to use a Mahlkoenig K30 and taste the results. I liked the user interface better than the mini-e. The K30's portafilter rest is good. The k30 grinds really fast - much quicker than the mini-e. I thought it was a pretty good grinder, although I wouldn't trade my Robur for one. It's definitely way better than the mini-e, that's for sure.

-Greg

[Richard]

Felix and Greg, thank you for your observations. That's very helpful. At the price point of the Robur, I'm not even going to lust in that general direction.

I'm hoping Teme weighs in on the subject, too, as I know he has now had the Mahlkoenig for a few months after having processed through Mini E and a veritable litany of other grinders, including a couple of largish conicals.

[Teme]

Their internal component quality is complete overkill. Truly fantastic. Like a Merc from the 70's.

I would say that this is a fairly accurate description of the Mahlkönig's build. It is impeccable. The best build and finish of any coffee related component I have ever owned or used.

As for the grind, I have owned several grinders and in terms of the results in the cup I would put them in the following order:

1. Compak K10 WBC (conical burr)
2. Mahlkönig K30 Vario (flat burr)
3. Casadio Instantaneo (conical burr)
4. Mazzer Mini-E / Mazzer Mini doser (flat burr)
5. Rancilio Rocky Doserless (flat burr)

There are some additional caveats and observations, though:

As has been said, the Mahlkönig is exceptionally fast. It is also the quietest grinder I have ever used. The portafilter rest and the stepless adjustment are absolutely great. The timers are also surprisingly accurate. There is some coffee retained in the chute and the chute is almost impossible to clear manually, so one just has to purge some coffee in the beginning of each session - the amount is smaller than with the Compak or the Casadio but bigger than with the Mazzer or the Rocky. As is typical for a flat burr (in my experience), an even naked extraction is more difficult to achieve than with a conical grinder. However, the Mahlkönig is better than the other flat burr grinders in this respect. There is some clumping in certain conditions and with certain coffees, but the clumps appear to be fairly soft and redistribute fairly easily. I am very happy with the shots I have pulled with this grinder.

The Compak produces a great grind. Perfect extraction is dead easy to achieve, the shots go blonder later into the extraction and they taste that little bit sweeter. It is almost impossible to achieve an extraction as good as this with a flat burr grinder. However, the Compak is huge not only in its outer dimensions, but also internally. The grinding chamber and the chute are voluminous and hold a lot of coffee - this results in a lot of wasted coffee even if you brush out the grinds from the chute after each session or shot. The size of things also results in timers not being very effective on this grinder and achieving accurately repeatable dose sizes is a lot more difficult than e.g. with the Mahlkönig (or Mazzer for that matter).

The Casadio is built like crap and is ugly as hell. The grind adjustment is via a worm drive that is too accurate in my opinion (a lot of coffee wasted when dialing in a new coffee). There is no portafilter holder, continuous grind button or grind activation by the portafilter. I did not learn to like the taste of the coffee this grinder produces - it was overly bright with bitter tones. However, the Casadio did produce a great fluffy grind and it was even easier to achieve a perfect extraction with it than the Compak. This aspect was as close to perfect I have seen in any grinder, but the downsides and the taste were too much for me to take.

Of the Mazzer's I did not particularly like the Mini-E's timer adjustment mechanism or the portafilter fork, but main reason for moving on from the Mini-E were the grind particle size sorting issues I was experiencing. The doser version of the Mini was better in this respect, although a bit slower in grind, but I just do not like dosers (one of the reasons I gave up the Compak in the end).

The Rocky was a good grinder. The Mazzer's were not a huge improvement in grind quality / taste in the cup, but they were built better, had stepless adjustment and ground a bit faster.

Is my grinder journey finished? Never say never. I may get a Versalab as a second grinder one day, but I am currently quite happy with the Mahlkönig. My wife loves it for the looks as well as the easy usability.

Br,
Teme

[KimH]

On pictures the Mahlkönig K30 does not look like a grinder as big as other grinders in that range. Something tells me that it might be bigger than I think..... I was surprised when i first saw a Super Jolly

How big is a Mahlkönig K30 compared to a Rocky or Mazzer Mini? Anybody out there with a picture showing a Mahlkönig K30 side by side with another well known grinder?

[timo888]

And don't overlook the Mahlkoenig's custom color and custom hopper options

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAL_...or_space_system%29

9.2 x 12.8 x 21.8 inches (but with customizable hopper to reduce the height)

Regards
Timo

[Teme]

How big is a Mahlkönig K30 compared to a Rocky or Mazzer Mini? Anybody out there with a picture showing a Mahlkönig K30 side by side with another well known grinder?

The K30 is a lot fatter than the Mini or the Rocky. I chopped my hopper and the K30 is now the same height as a Mazzer Mini with the short hopper (attached is a picture of the shortened K30 next to the GS3).



Br,
Teme

[Richard]

Teme, thank you for the well-written summary of your grinder saga. That's exceptionally helpful and informative.

[Teme]

No problem Richard. My pleasure. Good luck with your grinder search

Br,
Teme

[kwksilver]

I am not sure why you are comparing those 2.
I am glad others agreed with what I had observed on Mahlkoenig. I am sure that Astoria sells the Mahlkoenig as theirs...
To the best of my knowledge in terms of leagues the K30 is priced more like a Robur and performs more like one.
(I do not have the experience or expertise to judge between those two)

If you are in a position to buy a mini vs. a K30 for similar prices, then your choice is a no-brainer.

K30 hands down. If you go the other way you should see a psychiatrist

Regards,
Felix

PS: this statement was fueled by my observation that espressoparts NW is currently web "specialing" the Robur as well as K30 (s version though) in a league that certainly does not remind me of mini prices.

http://www.espressoparts.com/category/specials/

[Richard]

I chopped my hopper and the K30 is now the same height as a Mazzer Mini with the short hopper . . . .

Teme, how did you cut down the hopper? I can visualize all manner of potential concerns like not cracking it, maintaining a plane at the upper lip that is parallel with that of the base, final finishing of the cut-down surface; in short, how to do it and end up with a professional-looking result. And given the profile of the hopper, did you perhaps have to somehow reduce the diameter of the lid?

[Teme]

Teme, how did you cut down the hopper?

I started by finding a lid that is of an appropriate dimension for the chopped hopper (I looked for something with a diameter of 20cm). I then measured and marked the spot where I wanted to cut the hopper, put masking tape over and around the line to both protect the plastic as well as to prevent cracks in it. I used a Dremel to make the first cut (I attached the Dremel to a ball-jointed vice, which in turn was attached to the cupboard wall to make sure the first cut was level all the way around - I admit that the setup looked a bit funny). The Dremel generates a lot of heat when cutting so to avoid melting the hopper, I only used the Dremel for initial cut and then proceeded to finish the job off with a hacksaw. I then used sandpaper(s) to get rid of any sharp edges.

Br,
Teme

[Richard]

I attached the Dremel to a ball-jointed vice, which in turn was attached to the cupboard wall to make sure the first cut was level all the way around . . . .

And then spin the hopper. That's pretty creative.

Since I don't have an overhead cabinet to deal with, I may leave the hopper as-is. But it looks huge . . . we'll see; it's not yet in my kitchen but will be soon.

[roblumba]

The EPNW description says that it has 19 grinder settings? Are they trying to say that it's not stepless or are they saying that it just has 19 markings of which you can steplessly adjust?

[networkcrasher]

there are two versions - the vario is stepless, the ES is stepped.

[perstare]

I know from this thread that the K30 ES (stepped) is sold by Espresso Parts NW.
But who sells the K30 Vario (stepless) in the US?

[zin1953]

Mahlkönig USA does not list the K30 Vario on their website.

OTOH, the German Mahlkönig site does. Check out there English language .pdf file . . .

http://www.mahlkoenig.de/files/pdf/324_Produktblatt_K30_Family_eng.pdf

. . . for the THREE versions of the K30.

Cheers,
Jason

[houdina]

I spoke to Mahlkönig USA and they said they have the Vario for sale.

Teme, I love the polish and paint on your grinder.

[zin1953]

PS: this statement was fueled by my observation that espressoparts NW is currently web "specialing" the Robur as well as K30 (s version though) in a league that certainly does not remind me of mini prices.

http://www.espressoparts.com/category/specials/

Well, it's cheaper than at 1st-Line . . . . ($1435 v. $1495)