Mazzer Mini E vs. La Cimbali Max Hybrid

[jamiedolan]

Hello;

I have a very cheap home grinder and a pump espresso machine (artie espresso) that is similar to the $300 cuisinart ones.

I have known for a long time that I needed to get a much better grinder. I hacked the cuisinart so the burrs ran closer together. It bought me some time, and did grind alot finer, however I am getting alot of fines and I have been told this is likely the cause of bitterness in my espresso. Based on recommendations by a number of people, I am going to get a good grinder first, then later on, upgrade my espresso machine. I almost only make espresso, I don't care about a grinder for anything but espresso.

I was at SCAA and used a Dalla Corte and what I think was a Macap stepless. I was very pleased with the results.

I have really had my heart set on the Mazzer mini e doserless, well because it is a mazzer and it is a doserless. Then I recently read about the La Cimbali and read a number of people saying how it is so much better than the mazzer, however it is not doserless.

Since I will be spending the same amount of money (la cimbali jr and mazzer mini doserless are both $795) am I being foolish by going with the mazzer? Do you think I am going to eventually be disappointed with the mazzer and want a La Cimbali?

I want equipment that I can adjust as I like for the best performance, but I am likely going to find a good setting a lock it in, perhaps only changing it when I go to a different type of bean. So it's not gonna just sit there, but I am not going to be trying to tweak every single shot (hopefully not anyway).

Thoughts?

Thanks
Jamie D
Wisconsin

[cafeIKE]

HATE the thwack-thwack-thwack of a doser.
LOVE the taste of the La Cimbali.

Not sure if the La Cimbali doser imparts taste improvements, but a dosered Mini differed little from doserless MC4 in head-to-head vs the La Cimbali.

Since H-B is about exceptional espresso, we put up with the noise for the taste.
Recommend you do the same, assuming you mean the Max Hybrid

[zin1953]

I had a Mazzer Mini (not an "E"), replaced it with a Cimbali MaxHybrid, and never looked back! I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

[jamiedolan]

Maybe the doser isn't as big of a deal as I think it is. I thought you were suppose to keep several ounces in the doser to make it work properly, well I guess it still works, but it doesn't dose properly, right?

It just seems like your going to waste alot more coffee without a doserless... ???

[HB]

Maybe the doser isn't as big of a deal as I think it is. I thought you were suppose to keep several ounces in the doser to make it work properly, well I guess it still works, but it doesn't dose properly, right?

Dosers were designed with large cafes in mind; fill the hopper half full, pull lever, and out comes 7 grams of coffee. Home baristas and many pro baristas turn on the motor and "thwack thwack thwack" the doser handle. The barista helps even out the distribution by rotating the portafilter while "micro-dosing". This action also breaks up some clumps that can contribute to uneven extractions. The Mini E is a neat grinder, but it's true that a good barista will beat it on evenness using a doser-equipped Mini. I believe conical burr and hybrid burr grinders have garnered lots of attention among home baristas because they're less fussy about the distribution and require less micro adjustments. The Titan Grinder Project goes into much more detail.

It just seems like your going to waste alot more coffee without a doserless... ???

Practically all grinders retain a few grams of coffee grounds in the chute. Since I deal in single digit number of espressos per day, sweeping the chute is necessary at the end of a session / purging stale grounds at the beginning of a session. The Mini E is no exception, i.e., it retains grounds in the chute behind the "screen" and you cannot easily remove them. I purged a few grams of coffee before each session.

[jamiedolan]

The Titan Project page is very interesting, and very long.

One thing I realized in that the Regular Mini that I believe is what most people think of when you say Mazzer Mini has the 58mm burrs. However the Mazzer Mini e jumps up to 64mm burrs. I wonder if this accounts for some of the really favorable reviews of the mini e that I saw.
Jamie

[HB]

The Titan Project page is very interesting, and very long.

We plan a summary writeup, but things like family and work responsibilities keep interfering.

However the Mazzer Mini e jumps up to 64mm burrs. I wonder if this accounts for some of the really favorable reviews of the mini e that I saw.

Except for the price, I've read many favorable comments about the Mini E; I haven't read reviews of it directly compared with the Mazzer Mini (references welcome).

I compared the Mazzer Mini E and the Super Jolly side-by-side for a couple weeks. Although the Mini E is the neatnik champ, the Jolly beat it on speed and evenness of the distribution. Besides the obvious doser versus doserless differences, the thread Difference between Mazzer Mini E burrs and Super Jolly burrs? offers other observations of how these two 64mm burr grinders differ.

PS: I originally planned to keep the Mini E at the end of the evaluation, but I was so impressed by the Jolly, I kept it instead. For testing purposes, I've settled on the Mazzer Robur, Super Jolly, and Mini because they have their own strengths and adherents.

[cannonfodder]

There is a difference between the 58 and 64mm burrs, but there is a quantum leap between the 58 and the Cimbali Jr hybrid IMHO. I have used all 3 burr sizes (mini, major, Jr and Max).

[scalla]

I purchased the Mini E DL with the intent of using it for drip as well as espresso. The DL is great for dosing straight into the brew filter and makes my TV sing. When more experienced members suggested that I would be better off with a grinder for espresso and another one for everything else, I didn't have enough experience to understand that changing my espresso setting every day is a PITA and not beneficial to my extraction quality.

Clumping is actually minimal but I still use the WDT. I have also found that removing the hopper (just leave out the set screw loose) and hitting the top with an open palm does a good job of unseating the grounds caught in the throat. A custom hopper and something like the Click Clack lid that is popular on the Rocky's would probably work well also.

Now that I plan on buying another grinder for drip (probably a DL Rocky) I wonder if a doser model would not have suited me better. That said, the Mini is one sweet looking, heavy duty, exceptionally performing grinder. Unless I get a chance to try out a doser model for a week or two, and find it to be significantly better, I wont be changing anytime soon. Actually, it just occured to me that I could keep the Mini E for drip and try out an SJ or Mini for espresso....hmmmmm. Good luck.

[CWL]

I have posted a similar question at another site but there seems to be more here that have used the Cimbali.

I have the Ascaso iMini now and want to upgrade my grinder I have read up on both and need help on which one to purchase.

It will be for espresso use only...

[HB]

Clifton, I merged your thread with an existing one on the same subject. As you can see, the Cimbali Max Hybrid has a strong following...

[BobS]

FWIW - I have both a Mazzer Major and a La Cimbali Max Hybrid. And I've been using them side-by-side
with the same coffees and with different coffees. I don't find there is any difference in the taste, but
I'm no where near as critical on taste as those that did the TGP. And I find the Max clumps more than
the Major. Also, using the same coffees, and the Major creates fluffier grounds. But then perhaps I'm
not using the Max correctly nor using either correctly.

So let's say they both grind as well as one is going to get for less than $1,100 (ignoring the fact I
haven't tried the Macaps or Compaks). What I find more interesting is that I find myself using the
Major more than the Max. But that may be my bias as I started with a Mini (standard Mini), which
I now use for the vac pot.

If you're the type of person that notices small, non-functional, things on items and it bothers you than
a Max may not be a grinder you'll be happy living with. The Max is a great grinder and performs very
well. It was a significant step up from the Mini I used for four years and allowed me to make much
better and more consistant espresso. But, it's not as usable as the Major, and it's more diffcult to
clean. But if minor things like that don't bother you, than the Max is a great buy.

Bob

[jamiedolan]

Dan; Thanks for your great work on the titan project page and your Mazzer / Cimbali Hybrid / Macap review.

I am still searching for more reviews or a comparison on the Mini vs Mini e, and I will let you know if I find anything useful.

The Cimbali Hybrid sure seems like the way to go for the best quality grind. I wish it was as nice and neat as the Mini e doserless.

I'm going to read and search some more this weekend.

I will have to do something soon, the frustration with the modified Cuisinart grows, it is yielding very poor results on my small yemen beans.

Thanks again for all time and all your great information you have shared.

Jamie