MACAP vs. Mazzer grinder

[da gino]

Hi all, I'm suffering over the choice between a Mazzer Mini and the MACAP M4. I'm leaning towards the MACAP since the professional reviews here and on CG seem to give it at worst a tie and at best a slight edge over the Mazzer.

Here is the context in which I'll be using it. I have a La Pavoni Europiccola with a bottomless portafilter. We drink about 3 cups a day. My wife has a Latte and I have my espresso straight. Because of this I only put in roughly the beans I'll need for those drinks as I drink them, but I don't worry if there are a few extra beans left. I've had a cheap doserless grinder (Solis Maestro) before this that has served me well, but I'm excited to upgrade. I think this website has convinced me to go with the doser over doserless even in this context.

This still leaves a few other questions
1) timer or on/off switch. Macap gives you the choice. Which is better in this context? I've seen people gripe about the cover on the on/off switch. Is the timer the fix for this? Is the timer precise enough to grind exactly what you want each time? If not, can you use the timer as an on/off switch if you want to do so by just twisting it on and then twisting it to off?

2) Some people seem to say that the exterior fit and finish of the Mazzer is better. In the little pictures you see online it is hard to tell. Has anyone seen the chrome, the black, and the silver of the Macap in person to see if one of them looks cheaper than the other? I've never seen any of them in person (I like chrome and it seems like it would go well with stainless appliances, but perhaps the others are a little more understated?)

3) With a small 51mm portafilter is there a great advantage to a Mazzer or one of the Macaps that wouldn't matter for a larger portafilter?

Thanks for any advice!

Hugh

[Quoddy]

When I made my initial purchase, I spent several hours at Chris' Coffee choosing a grinder, I went in with the idea of either the Mini Mazzer or the MACAP M4. After using them side by side I narrowly decided on the MACAP for a couple of reasons. Firstly I liked the polished look and where the cord exited the grinder. Secondly I liked the way the doser distributed the ground coffee just a bit better (I had a more difficult time dosing the ground coffee into the portafilter from the Mazzer than I did the MACAP). I also felt that the stepless version of the MACAP M4 was easier to get to a finite point than was the Mazzer. This was my experience and why I chose the MACAP and it certainly might not be the same for everyone.

[Beezer]

I also went with the Macap over the Mazzer, but I've never had a chance to them compare side by side. I like the way the Macap's doser sweeps quite clean without any mods. The Mazzer needs some tape on the doser vanes to sweep clean. However, it seems like the Mazzer doser is easier to thwack quickly and break up clumps, whereas the Macap's doser arm is hard to thwack really fast.

Also, the Macap's doser arm makes a very loud clacking sound, loud enough to elicit complaints from my better half. I put some foam pads on the sides of the arms to mute the clacking, but it's still pretty loud. I think the Mazzer is a bit quieter. However, the sound of grinding with the Macap is reasonably quiet, and it's very quiet if it's running empty.

Both grinders are pretty slow compared to bigger commercial models like the Super Jolly or Cimbali Max Hybrid. It takes about 30 seconds to grind a double in the Macap, and I believe a similar amount of time in the Mazzer. By comparison, my new Cimbali Max only takes about 10 seconds to grind for a double, and it has fewer clumps.

I believe both the Macap and Mazzer have some clumping and distribution issues and benefit from the WDT routine. Again, the Max doesn't seem to need any extra fussing.

In terms of appearance, I prefer the Max with its shiny chrome, which matches the polished stainless of my Anita. I would think it would also be a good match for your Pavoni, which is probably highly polished. The Mazzer is more of a dull metallic grey paint, and doesn't really go well with stainless or chrome machines. The Cimbali's brushed stainless look is a bit subdued as well, not really a good match to a chrome or polished stainless machine.

[da gino]

In terms of appearance, I prefer the Max with its shiny chrome, which matches the polished stainless of my Anita. I would think it would also be a good match for your Pavoni, which is probably highly polished. The Mazzer is more of a dull metallic grey paint, and doesn't really go well with stainless or chrome machines. The Cimbali's brushed stainless look is a bit subdued as well, not really a good match to a chrome or polished stainless machine.

Thanks for the quick replies, I'll look hearing more. Beezer did you mean the Macap's shiny chrome when you said MAX or did you mean the Super max from Cimbali? Also did you and Quoddy have opinions on timer vs on off switch when you bought the Macaps? If the latter what do you think of the Macap?

Hugh

[cafeIKE]

It takes about 30 seconds to grind a double in the Macap, and I believe a similar amount of time in the Mazzer. By comparison, my new Cimbali Max only takes about 10 seconds to grind for a double, and it has fewer clumps.

The Macap and Mazzer do about 1g/sec, so that's one heck of a double if it takes 30 seconds. A 10g single takes 9 seconds on my M4. Around 16 for a double.

The performance is similar in all respects.
Adjusting a Mazzer is a two handed PITA.
A stepless Macap is too easy for words.

'nuff said.

[sweaner]

If you will be adjusting the grinder for more than just espresso I think the Mazzer would be a better choice.

I don't find it that hard to adjust, and I use my Mini for espresso and drip, etc.

[shadowfax]

Ian--if you single dose in either grinder, they take longer because of the popcorning. 30 s still seems a bit ridiculous with popcorning, though.

[da gino]

If you will be adjusting the grinder for more than just espresso I think the Mazzer would be a better choice.

I don't find it that hard to adjust, and I use my Mini for espresso and drip, etc.

Interesting and good to know, but I am happy to have this as a dedicated espresso machine and pull out my cheaper grinder on the occasion that I make French Press. It does sound from what I've read like the Mazzers make it easier to read the markings and jump from one setting to a much different one and back, but this isn't a make or break feature for me since I don't do it very often.

Hugh

[Quoddy]

Also did you and Quoddy have opinions on timer vs on off switch when you bought the Macaps? If the latter what do you think of the Macap?

Hugh

I went for the switch. I find the switch very easy to operate, even though the cover is on it. It's my understanding that the timer was mainly developed to stop people from leaving the grinder on. It's quiet, but not so quiet that I don't know it's running. A timer seems like it would be one more thing to go wrong, and to stop it means twisting the timer switch to off.

I use the MACAP M4 for espresso only and have a Nuova Simonelli MCI for FP.

[cafeIKE]

Re : Multi use grinding :

Interesting and good to know, but I am happy to have this as a dedicated espresso machine and pull out my cheaper grinder on the occasion that I make French Press.

Smart move! If more people did this, problems would diminish dramatically.

It does sound from what I've read like the Mazzers make it easier to read the markings and jump from one setting to a much different one and back, but this isn't a make or break feature for me since I don't do it very often.

Again, going back and forth between dramatically different settings to accommodate switching blends is not a good idea: Unless you grind at least a full shot to clear out the prior remnants, you're always in no man's land.

When switching blends, the last two shots are ground directly into the bin, the grinder is pulsed a few times to clear the popcorn, the grinder is brushed clean, a full shot of the new blend is ground into the bin. Then, and only then, does any attempt at making espresso take place.

[Beezer]

Beezer did you mean the Macap's shiny chrome when you said MAX or did you mean the Super max from Cimbali?

Sorry, I meant to say Macap. I had a brain fart there.

Also did you and Quoddy have opinions on timer vs on off switch when you bought the Macaps? If the latter what do you think of the Macap?

I don't recall there being an option to get a timer for the Macap M4. I think it's only available with the on/off switch unless you get the digital doserless model. I prefer the on/off switch since I suspect the timer won't always give you the right dose and I prefer to stop the grinder when I decide the basket is full. The rubber cover on the Macap's on/off switch is a bit annoying, so I just cut if off with a razor knife.

The Macap and Mazzer do about 1g/sec, so that's one heck of a double if it takes 30 seconds. A 10g single takes 9 seconds on my M4. Around 16 for a double.

I tend to grind a bit more than I need then sweep the excess off the top before tamping, so there may be some waste involved. However, I don't think my grinder is grinding anything like 1 gram per second. I doubt it's popcorning either, since I usually keep enough beans in the hopper to keep me going for a day or two. Maybe my M4 is just unusually slow.

[da gino]

Thanks to everyone for your responses. I went ahead and ordered the Macap M4 with doser and on/off switch (the place I ordered it said they could get it in a timer but liked the on/off switch better for individual users). It was nice to have two great choices and to know that there wasn't a wrong choice - I can't wait until tomorrow when it gets here!

[Quoddy]

You didn't say, but I'd guess that you got the stepless, right?

[da gino]

You didn't say, but I'd guess that you got the stepless, right?

I did go for the stepless. The machine got here yesterday and I love it. It is bigger than I
imagined, but it is stunning and it seems to be rock solid. I can't imagine how big the larger
Mazzer and Macap grinders must be!

[Beezer]

I can't imagine how big the larger
Mazzer and Macap grinders must be!

Really frickin' big!





Moderator edit: These photos were copied from the Titan Grinder Project thread.

[JohnB.]

I did go for the stepless. The machine got here yesterday and I love it. It is bigger than I
imagined, but it is stunning and it seems to be rock solid. I can't imagine how big the larger
Mazzer and Macap grinders must be!

Check out this thread on CG: http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/...so/grinders/349880 (once the CG server comes back on line) This mod makes it MUCH easier to remove the upper burr/hopper assy for cleaning. It will also allow you to make quick grind changes if using the stepless Macap for different types of brew grinding.

[da gino]

I've had the Macap for a few weeks and I love it. In case anyone was also wondering about the questions I asked in the first post I thought I'd give my own answer now that I have had it for a while.

1) Chris' coffee was right that the on off switch was a good choice. The timer might be an equally good choice, but I certainly don't miss it. A few people online didn't like the plastic cover, but it is not an issue on my machine at all.

2) I think the chrome looks great (although as I mentioned before, it is bigger than I thought). There is nothing cheap looking about this machine.

3) A small protafilter works fine under it. My counter isn't spotless when I'm done, but there isn't much wasted coffee on it (and what does spill is probably my fault and is easy to clean up).


I also love the doser even though before reading these forums I'd thought I wanted a doserless machine.
I'd been worried about too much buildup remaining in the doser, but when I asked around I was told that the doser would be swept quite clean, but that the chute would have some buildup and this would be true of the chutes on both Mazzers and Macaps and they were quite right (at least about the chute vs doser on this machine). There is almost no coffee left in the doser, but the chute does need to be cleaned out regularly.

In summary, I am thrilled with this machine (although I expect the same would have been true about the Mazzer mini if I'd bought it).

Check out this thread on CG: http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/...so/grinders/349880 (once the CG server comes back on line) This mod makes it MUCH easier to remove the upper burr/hopper assy for cleaning. It will also allow you to make quick grind changes if using the stepless Macap for different types of brew grinding.

JohnB, CG is working fine for me, but I still can't get this thread to come up. I'd be interested in reading it if you can point me to it in another way.

[JonS]

Looks like it got shortened:

http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/...so/grinders/349880

[JohnB.]

JohnB, CG is working fine for me, but I still can't get this thread to come up. I'd be interested in reading it if you can point me to it in another way.

I fixed the link in my post above. No idea why it wasn't working but it should be fine now.