Looking for a Dual Boiler Espresso Machine with a tank...

[emperorma]

Long-time lurker who is finally going to take the plunge.

I want a dual boiler home machine...but it cannot be plumbed in. Volume will mostly be low (15-20 shots per day...half of these used for lattes), with an occasional trip to small parties where volume will be a bit higher. Ease of use is a high priority, and temperature stability is of the utmost concern.

My budget for the machine is <$2,000. Is the Brewtus II the only choice out there?

This machine will be paired with a LaCimbali Jr. grinder. Thanks for your help.

[cappadoc]

The only options that come to mind are the Brewtus II or, perhaps, consider the La Spaziale S1 with a flojet pump into a 5 gallon water jug. That is my current setup and it is a dream! I have no experience with the Brewtus, so I'm not being negative about it. I love the silence of the rotary pump. I need to add an accumulator tank to lessen the work on the flojet, but the total cost for the pump and tank is <$200 at espresso parts NW.

Jeff

[HB]

I need to add an accumulator tank to lessen the work on the flojet, but the total cost for the pump and tank is <$200 at espresso parts NW.

Does the S1 really need a FloJet, i.e., would a check valve suffice? The Procon pump certainly doesn't need positive pressure (IIRC, it's spec'd at six foot vertical lift).


Ball-type check valve assures water flows only one direction

[emperorma]

I'd love to do that with the La Spaziale...but I really am not able to do a plumb-in or a pump/bottle configuration. Pourover is my only option due to portability concerns.

Will Chris have his new Andreja/Dual Boiler (for lack of an "official" name) project ready to roll by February? If not, it looks like Brewtus II...

[HB]

The S1 comes in a pourover version called the Rossini, though I don't believe Chris' Coffee carries them in stock. For loads of knowledgeable opinions on the S1, I recommend Chas Rimpo's S1 forum.

Abe's writeup of the original Brewtus really covers it well. The Brewtus II adds nicer steam arms, easier access to the brew pressure adjustment, and I understand its pump is quieter. Of course the Brewtus discussion group and the Brewtus Group file repository are veritable treasure troves of information.

As for Chris' dual boiler project, well, you would have to ask him.

[emperorma]

Wow! A La Spaziale S1 in pourover would be perfect for my needs. About $1,700 or so would seem appropriate, no? Have you heard if Chris brings these things in?

[Dogshot]

The La Spaz pourover is called the Rossini, and IIRC, it has a vibe pump, and no steam pressure gauge. It does have the same size brew boiler as the Vivaldi (.45l), but I don't know about the size of the steam boiler; the Rossini is also a fair bit less expensive.

I just got a Brewtus II, and it is an incredible machine. The pump is not as loud as that on my Gaggia Classic, and I am finding the built in brew pressure gauge to be a real educational tool (neither La Spaz units have a built-in brew pressure gauge). The brew pressure adjustment screw is located behind the drip tray, so there is no necessity to open the machine to change brew pressure.

There's not a lot of choice in consumer DB's right now, but I bet it will be a different story in a year or two. Temp surfing an HX unit seems like it's quickly becoming a vestigial skill.

[emperorma]

There's not a lot of choice in consumer DB's right now, but I bet it will be a different story in a year or two. Temp surfing an HX unit seems like it's quickly becoming a vestigial skill.

Yep, Dogshot, I believe you're right. When a man has my limited barista skills, surfing is best done on a beach with tasty waves...

I may have to go with the Brewtus II if Chris can't bring in the new unit soon. But I'd like to give him the chance...the Andreja Premium with a dual boiler is my dream machine. But the La Spaz pourover does indeed pique my interest. I'll have to investigate further.

[topcat5]

I have the Brewtus II and I am quite happy with it. Given the requirements that you have put forth here the Brewtus should more than meet your needs. I have to agree with the brew pressure gauge. I use it to determine if I have gotten down a good distribution and tamp in my portafilter. The machine also works very well with a 15A circuit. When I decided to get this machine, I decided that I wasn't going to wait for a machine that was promised back in June, and has yet to show up.

[halocoffee]

I'm in the same boat as you -- I want to upgrade to a double boiler machine, and unless we fully remodel the kitchen, a plumbed-in, 20 amp machine isn't an option. (Neither is a flo-jet/5-gallon water bottle in the middle of my kitchen floor!) So it's a Brewtus II . . . unless I feel like being a pioneer and going for the Della Corte.

If I were either of you I would look for a way to make an S1 work. It is simply a fantastic machine. Extremely quiet, monstrously powerful steam, accurate temperature control. I've had a Silvia, a Livia, an Astra and a Reneka Techno, and the S1 is my favorite of all those machines. It seems like all the other ones had significant shortcomings of one sort or another, but the S1's shortcomings are truly miniscule.

One great thing about it is that you can plumb in the water supply, but you can use the drip tray in a non-plumbed-in fashion, so you won't have to plumb in the drain. Get creative! All you have to do is get water to the machine, and you will have the best prosumer machine on the market.

[RapidCoffee]

If I were either of you I would look for a way to make an S1 work. It is simply a fantastic machine. Extremely quiet, monstrously powerful steam, accurate temperature control. I've had a Silvia, a Livia, an Astra and a Reneka Techno, and the S1 is my favorite of all those machines. It seems like all the other ones had significant shortcomings of one sort or another, but the S1's shortcomings are truly miniscule.

Just curious - what didn't you like about the Reneka Techno?

[zin1953]

If I were either of you I would look for a way to make an S1 work. It is simply a fantastic machine. Extremely quiet, monstrously powerful steam, accurate temperature control. I've had a Silvia, a Livia, an Astra and a Reneka Techno, and the S1 is my favorite of all those machines. It seems like all the other ones had significant shortcomings of one sort or another, but the S1's shortcomings are truly miniscule.

One great thing about it is that you can plumb in the water supply, but you can use the drip tray in a non-plumbed-in fashion, so you won't have to plumb in the drain. Get creative! All you have to do is get water to the machine, and you will have the best prosumer machine on the market.

You married?

Not an option without a full kitchen remodel means "not an option without a full kitchen remodel." You don't need to sing the praises of having a machine that's plumbed-in. I'd love to have one! And if I was going to remodel the kitchen, a plumbed-in machine would be a given. And if I was wealthy enough, so would a Linea! Short that, it looks like an S1 would be the ideal answer.

But within what remains the possibilities in the REAL world, it looks like it's going to be either an Expobar Brewtus II or a Dalla Corte Mini Professional . . .

I just wish there was more Real World Experience with the Dalla Corte.

Cheers,
Jason

P.S. I've had two espresso machines in 25+ years, so the curiousity is killing me: why, if I may ask, have you gone through FIVE machines (and how long did it take you)?

[emperorma]

Someone I know who is very experienced and well-versed in the world of home espresso...and very dialed-in...is aware of my machine search and sent me the following simple, unsolicited message today:

"If you can get the Brewtus, there really is no need to continue shopping."

Very interesting...

However, I'd still like to hear about the estimated delivery time of Chris' new project. I am inclined to give him a bit of time to make it happen before I buy anything else...but not more than a month or two.

[miKe mcKoffee]

However, I'd still like to hear about the estimated delivery time of Chris' new project. I am inclined to give him a bit of time to make it happen before I buy anything else...but not more than a month or two.

Then I guess just wait 'til the end of February and if no PIDd DB Quick Mill materializes get the Brewtus. From talking with Chris early December I don't believe the project is dead, just delayed. But who knows until if and when it happens.

[emperorma]

The S1 comes in a pourover version called the Rossini, though I don't believe Chris' Coffee carries them in stock. For loads of knowledgeable opinions on the S1, I recommend Chas Rimpo's S1 forum.

Does anyone know of a U.S. distributor that carries the S1 Rossini? This could be something I would be very interested in. Thanks.

[zin1953]

I haven't found anyone with the Rossini . . . .

[eelriverrose]

In brief, it sounds doubtful that this will manifest very soon, if at all. The costs of getting it right are mounting, and Chris feels more and more solidly behind the S1. He said he has sold 300 without a single return and isn't convinced of the need to continue the project with QuickMill. This information was conveyed to me in several emails during mid-December. I decided not to wait myself, and bought an S1. It arrived on the doorstep yesterday (the UPS man was smiling, but incredulous, as it came along with the Macap and four other boxes). It will be the weekend before I have collected all the plumbing/electrical parts I need hook it up. Not to mention the courage. It's my first machine. Good luck with your decision. The Expobar sounds like a fine machine. Susan

[miKe mcKoffee]

I decided not to wait myself, and bought an S1. It arrived on the doorstep yesterday (the UPS man was smiling, but incredulous, as it came along with the Macap and four other boxes). It will be the weekend before I have collected all the plumbing/electrical parts I need hook it up. Not to mention the courage. It's my first machine. Susan

Wow, congratulations and a great who needs future upgraditis move. Quite the first machine!

[emperorma]

In brief, it sounds doubtful that this will manifest very soon, if at all. The costs of getting it right are mounting, and Chris feels more and more solidly behind the S1. He said he has sold 300 without a single return and isn't convinced of the need to continue the project with QuickMill. This information was conveyed to me in several emails during mid-December. I decided not to wait myself, and bought an S1. It arrived on the doorstep yesterday (the UPS man was smiling, but incredulous, as it came along with the Macap and four other boxes). It will be the weekend before I have collected all the plumbing/electrical parts I need hook it up. Not to mention the courage. It's my first machine. Good luck with your decision. The Expobar sounds like a fine machine. Susan

First of all, congratulations! You should be set for life!

For my situation, well, my wife and I originally designated an island area of our kitchen as the "espresso bar" and, to make a long story short, due to the design of our house it would require ripping a vintage tile floor out in order to run plumbing to the thing. That's why I always felt the need for a pourover machine. I now am going to try and convince my wife to give up some kitchen counter space so I can go with the S1...

[eelriverrose]

Thanks for the congratulations! I waited over a year trying to decide (and watching the prices go up!), then ordered the Andrea. Two days later, after several more phone calls with Chris, I decided to switch to the S1 (which Chris accommodated without a charge to me even though the Andreja eventually made it all the way to California despite attempts to have it returned to Albany). I'm in grateful awe of Chris Coffee customer service, needless to say. One suggestion regarding the island: imagination. Sometimes we plan for something (like an espresso bar on the island) and yet circumstances constrain us in some way. When we remodeled our kitchen, certain aspects were incredibly frustrating, but ultimately they forced us to consider a completely different approach, which turned out to be brilliant. The creative use of imagination might cause you to come up with an idea that far exceeds your original vision. In other words, if your espresso machine has to go somewhere plumbable, it frees up all that delicious island space for.....?! (And maybe it will involve acquiring something else beautiful, which is always fun). I personally love an empty island (I have a large one), but I bake and cook a lot and love to spread out when I work. Susan