Lever Espresso Machines Smackdown - Page 11

[HB]

PV advertise this machine as having an "average warm-up time" of only 10 minutes.

Most advertisements define warm-up time = boiler is up to operating temperature. Various "cheats" exist for speeding the rest of the espresso machine's group to readiness, e.g., Cheating Miss Silvia. For the purposes of reviews, warm-up time = espresso machine is temperature stable and ready to brew without any operator intervention.

[cannonfodder]

I put a type K thermocouple on the on the group to see how fast it came to temperature. Nothing very scientific, I just put a rubber band around the group and a type K thermocouple under it. As I said earlier, my experience may have been a fluke since I have only power cycled the machine a few times. It did appear to heat faster this time. After a half hour the group was registering 146F and felt much warmer to the touch. After 15 minutes the group was registering 125ish.

To each his own, but I like a half hour warm up.

[timo888]

Most advertisements define warm-up time = boiler is up to operating temperature. Various "cheats" exist for speeding the rest of the espresso machine's group to readiness, e.g., Cheating Miss Silvia. For the purposes of reviews, warm-up time = espresso machine is temperature stable and ready to brew without any operator intervention.

Dan,
The definition "ready to brew without any operator intervention" is arbitrary, and frankly, bullsh*t. I suppose the E61, with cooling flush requirements, disqualifies that class of machine What do you call a cooling flush if not "operator intervention"? How does it squeak past your definition but a warming flush does not?

I used a Lusso for months. It is a convection-only heated group, and a relatively small group (compared to the much more massive E61) and it works with a much simpler thermal scenario compared to groups that have direct metal-to-metal contact with a boiler and get their heat from two sources, conduction and convection.

The Lusso heats up and is ready to go in ~12 minutes using the flush procedure that I described above, which is also recommended in the manual, quoted above. The Lusso was temperature stable afterwards.

Regards
Timo

[HB]

The definition "ready to brew without any operator intervention" is arbitrary, and frankly, bullsh*t. I suppose the E61, with cooling flush requirements, disqualifies that class of machine?

It matters for those who turn on the machine and then take a shower, expecting to make their espresso immediately upon their return. For me, the more interesting question is why Ponte Vecchio installed a fancy water level cutoff and omitted a vacuum breaker.

If one does a warming flush at ~8 minutes but then gives the machine another 4 or 5 minutes for the thermosyphon to do its thing, any spike in heat from the warming flush will have had time to dissipate, and the group will reach temperature equilibrium.

The Lusso heats up and is ready to go in ~12 minutes using the flush procedure that I described above, which is also recommended in the manual, quoted above. The Lusso was temperature stable afterwards.

Specific timings aside, the Lusso requires extra attention that other Smackdown candidates do not. For example, the Microcasa is ready in 12 minutes without operator intervention.

[cannonfodder]

Ponte Vecchio Lusso: The little machine that could.

I have only been using the single group Lusso for 3 days but have quickly come up to speed on the little box. I would normally work with a machine for a week before I do any writing about the system. However, I have had hands on tutorial of the machine along with the previous user's reviews. Armed with that knowledge, I brought the Lusso home and hooked it up on my espresso bar.

I broke out the owners manual, yes some of us still look before we work, and leafed through it. I was not expecting much, most espresso machines have rudimentary owner manuals and the Ponte Vecchio is no exception. The basics of the machine are covered, what is where, and basic operation but not much else.

I filled up the boiler and powered up the machine. As I stated earlier, the Lusso has no vacuum breaker so false pressure must be vented after the initial heat-up. The owners manual listed the heat up time as 10 minutes. I was skeptical. The Lusso single group has a 3 liter boiler and a 1200 watt heater. That is a lot of water, and steel/brass to heat in a very short time. The machine will complete its initial heat up in 10 minutes, false pressure still needs to be purged. Open up the steam wand and purge the boiler for 10 seconds then let the machine come to temperature again. That takes another 3 minutes.

Unlike the other machines of the lever machine Smackdown, the Lusso uses a thermosiphon similar to those used by E61 groups albeit on a smaller scale. While the boiler comes to temperature in under 15 minutes, I find that the group and rest of the machines steel body needs at least a half hour of heat up time. You can speed the process by purging some water out of the group but keep in mind you are depleting your brew water. Once empty, the machine will need time to cool down before you open the boiler to add more water. Then you have to go through the entire heating process again.

While I am on the subject of heat, let me mention the little machine's unique ability to not overheat. Because the grouphead is not attached to the boiler it does not overheat like the other Smackdown participants. You can even leave the machine on for extended periods. I ran the little box for two days without powering it down. I pulled shots until the boiler hit the low limit and never had any heat issues, other than it running cool unless I do a warming flush before the shot.

I loaded the Cimbali Max up with some La Bella Vita espresso blend from PT's Coffee, made a guess at my grind based on the Elektra Microcasa Leva and pulled my first shot. I was surprised; the extraction was on the money. The shot was all crema and flowed like honey. The resulting diminutive shot was brighter and more acidic than the shots from the Gaggia Factory with a little less body but not quite as bright as the Elektra. The big shocker was the diminutive amount of espresso a single lever pull produces. I gathered a scant half ounce or so of espresso. While tasty, it was hardly enough for the amount of coffee I used. But this was my first pull on this machine and there is much more testing ahead.

The Lusso uses a very small portafilter -- the smallest I have ever used. The baskets make up for their small diameter by being deep. I can fill the basket to a small mound and do a no pressure sweep to level off the basket. The resulting dose is in the 11.5 gram range, give or take a couple of tenths. I have been using 11 to 11.5 grams in my shots so far with good results. I will point out one annoying problem. The basket is so small in diameter that I end up with a teaspoon-ish worth of grounds in the drop tray. The basket is so narrow that some of the grinds will miss while thwacking the doser handle. I may start dosing into a ramekin and then transferring it to the basket but it is really more work than I want to go through.

The basket is not the only small part on the Lusso. The piston is equally small. The piston stroke appears to very close to that of the Elektra Microcasa Leva. The reduced diameter of the piston means it pushes less water with each stroke. Pulling a single stroke shot with the Lusso using a double basket produces a shot that would barely overflow a thimble. A multi-pull is required to get more than a sip. If you use the single basket, a single pull would be more acceptable due to the reduced dose.

The single pull, multi pull discussion is described in detail in the Lever multiple pull techniques thread. I will not be debating the pros or cons of this technique but I will elaborate on how I pull a shot on the Lusso.

I start by pulling an ounce of water through the group and portafilter into my demitasse cup to both preheat the group and the cup. Then I grind my fresh beans and dose the double basket to just below the top rim of the basket for an 11 gram dose. I give that a quick leveling sweep with the back of my little finger followed by three thumps on my tamping stand to further level and settle the coffee bead.


Then a nice light tamp to settle the puck.



I then empty the water out of my cup, lower the lever until a little water flows then back off until it just stops. At that point the lever is around half cocked. Then I lock in my portafilter, lower the lever to the bottom of the stroke and hold. I keep the lever depressed for 7 seconds. While the lever is depressed I place my cup under the spouts. Once I release the lever I allow it to travel until the first few drops fall into my cup. I then re-cock the lever, hold it for another 3 seconds and release. I allow the lever to travel through a full stroke to complete the shot. That dispenses just over one ounce of espresso.

Just for clarification, the Lusso has a double spouted portafilter, espresso was just flowing from one spout when I snapped the photos, hence the appearance of a single stream.

So far, this is working well for me but as I mentioned earlier, my time with the Lusso has been short so my opinion/technique may change over time.

I am finding the shots on the Lusso to be quite good. The shots are brighter than the LaPavoni with more clarity in flavor but with less body yet slightly less brightness than the Elektra Microcasa Leva but with a touch more body. The little Ponte Vecchio Lusso appears to fill a niche between the two cup styles of my other machines. I still reserve the right to change my opinion as my time with "the little machine that could" progresses.

[timo888]

Specific timings aside, the Lusso requires extra attention that the other Smackdown candidates do not. For example, the Microcasa is ready in 12 minutes without the need to relieve false pressure or help "the thermosyphon to do its thing."

Different machines have different basic designs, and different approaches to temperature management. The Lusso from the factory cannot be put on a timer, and those who like to wake up to find their machine ready to pull an espresso may not want a Lusso. [They would have to wait a long, caffeine-deprived 4 minutes for the machine to come to temp after bleeding the false pressure and doing a flush or two, as the factory manual recommends.] But it is misleading to say that the Lusso has "a long heat-up time." It does not. The Lusso's convection-heated group simply requires a warming flush, just as other designs, whose issue is that they run hot, will require a cooling flush.

There is a beneficial upside to the heat-up cycle warming flush requirement: the Elektra, Cremina, Pavoni, and Ponte Vecchio Export levers all eventually overheat from conduction (requiring operator intervention to cool them down) whereas the Lusso's group is not heated by conduction and so can pull more shots than those "personal class" machines can. The Lusso is in the "club" (i.e. "small communities") class, and can be used for light entertaining.

When Olympia added a vacuum breaker to their design, to eliminate the need to release false pressure, it turned out that scale deposits could cause the vacuum breaker to stick, allowing the boiler to run dry. Olympia subsequently removed the vacuum breaker, reverting to the older, simpler design that requires "operator intervention" before it is ready to brew.

Perhaps Ponte Vecchio decided that bleeding the false pressure and a simple warming flush were to be preferred over that scenario?

Regards
Timo

[peacecup]

Once empty, the machine will need time to cool down before you open the boiler to add more water.

This is not literally true. One need only bleed off all pressure before opening the boiler cap. The massive brass boiler and group will remain hot, decreasing the heat-up time for the second filling.

PC

[cannonfodder]

You are correct, when I say cool down, I do not necessarily mean cool to the touch but void of any boiler pressure. You can open the steam wand to vent pressure and try to cool the remaining water faster but it still takes time to cool to zero pressure.

Whatever you do, never open the boiler cap when there is pressure in the boiler. Something the manual also points out. Doing so can cause severe injury. There is a small hole in the boiler cap threads about half way down. That hole is present on all of my lever machines. It is a pressure release vent just in case you do unscrew the boiler cap while pressurized. Once that hole rises above the boiler fitting threads high pressure steam will vent. That is your last and only warning before the boiler cap blows off and steam and super heated water blast you in the face/hand/assorted body parts. Needless to say, 245 degree water in the face, or anywhere else would be very bad.

[timo888]

I powered up the Ponte Vecchio Lusso (PVL) 2 group as normal but did not flush the left grouphead. "Normal" is after reaching the max of 1.05bars, open steam valve to release any false pressure, let boiler reach max again, flush grouphead for couple seconds. After letting the machine sit for ~1 hour both groups felt the same to the touch.

I don't believe we have any under-the-hood pictures of the 2-group Lusso. Or do we? If you feel so inclined, I am sure they would be much appreciated. Does each group have its own 'dedicated' thermosyphon? Any possibility that flushing one group might clear the (putative) vapor lock for both?

Regards
Timo

[narc]

Timo, I think you are correct.
Some photos under posting "First initial impressions..." somewhere in the Lever section.
There looks to be only one line from the boiler that must split somewhere inside the plate that you see on the outside of the front panel.
Now I feel like a real dolt. This AM observations are probably explained due to the single thermosyphon line spliting into two.
The Observations: ~9:30 minutes to reach 1.05Bars, released any false pressure and flushed right grouphead
@20 min. from power up both groups felt the same, warm but not hot to the touch
@30 min. from power up same as above, just warmer but not so hot you could not touch for a
second or two
Flushed right group, loaded & pulled a shot. After pulling the shot the grouphead was significantly hotter than the left group. Pulled a shot on the left group. Both groups now hot enough allowing only light quick touch.

[timo888]

No, a dolt is me trying to make sense of a book on home electrical wiring. I try following with my eyes where the wires go in the photos, but it's almost as hard as following the subterfuge of knots in the Book of Kells.

[peacecup]

Took a break from the Caravel today, since I was home with the kid(s). Had the usual cappuccino in the AM, but the highlights of the day were two really great two-pull Ponte Vecchio macchiatos. The blend was Café D'Arte's Fabriano, which is alder-wood smoked. The "spot" of milk was the perfect compliment to the spicy smokiness.

I've frequently noted that two or more pulls on the PV can be good, and as cannonfodder pointed out a few posts ago, brew ratios with the double basket tend to be quite high with just one pull.

PC

[peacecup]

The Lusso uses a very small portafilter -- the smallest I have ever used. The baskets make up for their small diameter by being deep. I can fill the basket to a small mound and do a no pressure sweep to level off the basket. The resulting dose is in the 11.5 gram range, give or take a couple of tenths. I have been using 11 to 11.5 grams in my shots so far with good results. I will point out one annoying problem. The basket is so small in diameter that I end up with a teaspoon-ish worth of grounds in the drop tray. The basket is so narrow that some of the grinds will miss while thwacking the doser handle. I may start dosing into a ramekin and then transferring it to the basket but it is really more work than I want to go through.

The PV double basket will happily swallow 14g, and I've dosed up to >16g. With the 45-mm group, I think one must needs re-think the whole downdosing philosophy that has been in vogue recently here on HB. Downdosing in a shallow 58-mm basket, on a pump machine, may be substantially different than on the Ponte Vecchio. I have no experience whatsoever on a 58-mm machine, but I am prepared to take the word of Ken Fox and others that downdosing is effective. I humbly submit that I have as much 45-mm experience as any regular poster here on HB, and I consistently get good results but cramming the double basket full and taking more than one pull.

I am still waiting for one of the Lusso reviewers to make a serious effort to learn and evaluate large doses and multiple pulls. I think it is important for potential PV buyers who might think that shot size will be limited to 15-20 ml ristrettos.

PC

[roadman]

The PV double basket will happily swallow 14g, and I've dosed up to >16g. With the 45-mm group, I think one must needs re-think the whole downdosing philosophy that has been in vogue recently here on HB.

While I can't really comment about a 45 mm basket, downdosing to 11 - 12 g on my Cremina's 49 mm basket has dramatically improved both the taste and consistency of my shots without reducing volume. I'm getting all kinds of fruity notes that I wasn't getting before, less channeling, fewer sink shots, etc.

That being said, different machines, different coffee, different shot pullers are gonna yield different results.

Jon

[timo888]

I think it is important for potential PV buyers who might think that shot size will be limited to 15-20 ml ristrettos.

Potential buyers should also know that they could take two pulls with moderate 11-12g doses, finely ground, and using a very light tamp.

But whatever approach, peacecup's coarse grind, dose, tamp, dose some more then tamp-again, or the approach I recommend, fine grind, moderate dose and a very light tamp, two pulls are possible with the 45mm double-basket.

Regards
Timo

P.S. But a two-ounce ristretto is not in the cards.

[timo888]

The basket is so narrow that some of the grinds will miss while thwacking the doser handle. I may start dosing into a ramekin and then transferring it to the basket but it is really more work than I want to go through.

Dave, try a simple single-pull-on-the-doser-lever dosing, instead of the thwack-thwack-thwack-thwack approach, and trust to the fact that the engineers did expend some of their brainpower on the doser, and to the deeper basket, which is very forgiving as far as distribution is concerned.

I start by pulling an ounce of water through the group and portafilter into my demitasse cup to both preheat the group and the cup. Then I grind my fresh beans and dose the double basket to just below the top rim of the basket for an 11 gram dose. I give that a quick leveling sweep with the back of my little finger followed by three thumps on my tamping stand to further level and settle the coffee bead.
<image>

Then a nice light tamp to settle the puck.

Sounds on the money to me, especially the three thumps and the light tamp.

Regards
Timo

[cannonfodder]

To avoid tossing grounds all over the place, you have to slow down on the doser to let the grinds fall straight down as you describe. I am enjoying this little machine. I have been out over the weekend so the Lusso has been quiet for a few days. But the little machine that could has some new company.


The Lusso will take a larger dose than the 11-11.5 grams that I use. However, that is what I think produces the best shot. At 11 grams, there is ample headspace yet the puck rises to make slight contact against the shower screen after the shot is finished. While you could shoehorn more coffee into the basket, it will swell tightly against the shower screen which is a practice I try to avoid. I do not care for the cup it produces, simple as that. But as with all things, taste is subjective and varies from person to person. I would not consider anything I do to be the only way or the right way but simply my way and subject to change as time progresses and my taste evolves.

I have been using multiple pulls, two to be exact. The cup I get from the Lusso is better than those I get from the Elektra or LaPavoni when using multiple pulls. Don't know why, I would guess it has to do with the basket geometry. While the smaller extraction amount 1-1.3ish ounces sounds small, keep in mind that I am using 11 grams, not 15-18 grams that would get used in a 58mm portafilter for two ounces. Looking at Andy's espresso brewing ratio chart, that put the shots I am producing from Lusso right in the 'normal' 50% extraction. There is nothing ristretto about them.

(Click above to see larger image)

It is about quality, not quantity.

[peacecup]

cannonfodder wrote:

The Lusso will take a larger dose than the 11-11.5 grams that I use. However, that is what I think produces the best shot.

For two pulls, and the resulting ~1 oz (30 ml) of espresso this is probably true in my opinion as well. Also, with this dose and one pull the PV will produce a Killer ristretto

At 11 grams, there is ample headspace yet the puck rises to make slight contact against the shower screen after the shot is finished.

The weight of coffee depends on the blend and water content, but I can get ~14g in the double basket without the swollen puck touching the screen. MY PV basket requires <5mm headspace - this is far less than a La Pavoni/Factory in my limited experience, and also, I believe less than the Elektra.

While you could shoehorn more coffee into the basket, it will swell tightly against the shower screen which is a practice I try to avoid. I do not care for the cup it produces, simple as that. But as with all things, taste is subjective and varies from person to person. I would not consider anything I do to be the only way or the right way but simply my way and subject to change as time progresses and my taste evolves.

One great thing about the PV design is its versatility - the fact that you can use the double basket from anywhere between 9-15g. Even at "shoehorn" doses it performs quite well, although I can't get any of the reviewers to give it a serious try. I can say that I have had several very nice 14-15g, three-pull cappuccinos lately.

From your photo of a tamped basket a few posts back I can say I normally operate with less headroom than that. If you decided to try fuller doses you'd probably need to loosen the grind a notch. I would like to hear someone else's impression of a 14g shot, because I've nobody to compare notes with.

Pulling all of the test shots as 11g doubles is like test-driving a Ferrari at 55 mph.




PC

[timo888]

Pulling all of the test shots as 11g doubles is like test-driving a Ferrari at 55 mph.

Lusso : 11g :: Ferrari : 55mph

Not sure I buy that analogy, peacecup. This one seems more apt:

Lusso : 11g :: Alpha Romeo : pretty passenger

Regards
Timo

[cannonfodder]

Steaming on the Ponte Vecchio Lusso

When the little Lusso arrived I did not expect much from it. It is a little machine with very rudimentary controls and an even more rudimentary steam wand. But I have been wrong before.

The steam wand on the Lusso is as basic as basic can get. It is little more than a piece of pipe protruding through a small grommet covered hole in the front of the machine. There is no articulation of any kind, what you see is what you get. At the end of that pipe is a 3 hole steam tip but the holes appear to be drilled directly vertical so there is no steam dispersion, just a straight downward jet. The holes in the steam tip are also very small, the smallest I have ever seen on an espresso machine.




The steam is controlled by a knob protruding from the left side of the case and attached to the valve shaft by a slot head screw. There is no cover over the control know so the shiny metal screw is there for anyone to see. The steam valve is your basic rubber cupped stem valve assembly; turn the knob and the steam flows. There is very little ability to regulate the steam flow. It is either on or off.


My first attempt at steaming was quite surprising. I got nice microfoam on the first try. You obviously do not have much room to work given the small form factor of the Lusso and the fixed steam wand so pitcher size and angle are the keys. If you try to use too large of a pitcher the milk level will be to low in the pitcher for the steam wand to reach. So do not try to steam 4 ounces of milk in a 20 ounce pitcher. My go-to pitcher is a nondescript 12 ounce tapered stainless pitcher. With 4 to 5 ounces of milk, it works just fine. As I said, the key is getting the angle of the pitcher to get the milk rolling. I angle the pitcher toward me so I am looking down the pitcher and put the steam wand on the right half of the pitcher. This moves the pitcher away from the grouphead and gives you a little work room.

Because the Lusso has a 3 liter boiler there is plenty of steam in that little box. The small steam wand holes produce a low volume of steam but at a respectable velocity. The steam tip also appears to be well matched to the boiler/heater capacity. The Lusso can steam for extended periods without running out of power. The reduced steam flow also means you have more time to work the milk to get the texture correct. On the down side, if you are steaming for 3 lattes for an after dinner party, it takes a very long time. Guest one will be half finished with their drink by the time guest 3 gets their drink. But I doubt Ponte Vecchio intended for the Lusso to be a small catering machine.

To check the steam times I filled the boiler just over halfway on the sight glass. This is a reasonable water level and about where you will be after pulling couple of shots. I allowed the Lusso to heat for an hour to make sure it was at thermal equilibrium. I used a 12 and 20 ounce pitcher filled with 40 degree water and steamed the water to 160 degrees as measured by a Fluke 54II and K thermocouple, while timing on a stopwatch. Each volume was done 3 times and the numbers averaged for the following results.

8oz—52 seconds
10oz—60 seconds
12oz—78 seconds

The Lusso is no steam speed demon but it does a respectable job and produces a microfoam any barista would be happy to serve.

[gvideo]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6670364870384606209&hl=en[/gvideo]

Please not that the shot pulled in the video was less than ideal and the crema dissipated quickly. That is not the machines fault but simply a less than optimal shot created by the barista. However, the entire point for the video was milk steaming which was good, so I used it.

An important note about the Lusso. As noted earlier the Lusso does not have a vacuum breaker. The breaker serves two purposes, not only does it allow false pressure to bleed out as the boiler heats but it relieves pressure as the boiler cools. Without that breaker, the boiler will form a vacuum and it will draw in air from where ever there is a less than perfect seal. Unfortunately, that point of entry is often the steam wand. If you happen to have a small spot of milk tainted water in that wand the vacuum will draw that back into the boiler as it depressurizes. The resulting milk tainted boiler water will go rancid.

A little over a week ago I was playing with steaming on the Lusso. I had flushed out the boiler and let it sit while I did some work on the Titan grinder project. Then I got the flu, so the machine sat idle for a few days longer. Yesterday I filled the boiler and powered up the machine to do a little work but when I flushed out the group the water was stinky. It had a sour, spoiled, metallic trashcan smell to it with an even worse taste and light tan tint in the water. Disaster. A little of the milky water got into the boiler and has spoiled. I had a similar problem with my two group which was also void of a vacuum breaker a few years ago. Unfortunately the only remedy is to soak the boiler in detergent to thoroughly clean it and then flush it vigorously. Sometimes the process has to be repeated a couple of times to thoroughly remove the contaminate. So be forewarned, make sure you thoroughly purge the steam wand. It would also be a good idea to use the water tap wand, not the steam wand, to release the vacuum in the boiler which is how I probably got the contaminate in the boiler in the first place.