Le'Lit PL53 Stepless Doserless Espresso Grinder - Page 4

[aindfan]

I'd like to add myself to the ever growing list of happy customers, both with 1st-Line service and the quality of the grinder. It is working quite well for me, but when I grind directly into the PF (Gaggia PF with a hole drilled out in the bottom) I get a big mess as the grinds start flying around once the basket gets close to full. Even when I level off the basket as I go, the grinds shooting unevenly from the left side make it difficult to get a nice neat pile in the middle. My solution has been to grind into the grounds catcher from my hand grinder (a plastic cup type thing - fits perfectly to cover up the sides of the chute and press the button at the same time) so I reduce the wasted grinds and prevent the few squirts of channeling that I was getting when grinding into the PF. With the plastic cup method, I do the toothpick-stir-into-the-basket that I was used to. While I am still adjusting myself to the high resolution of the knob and the few grinds that don't make it all the way through at the end (I only add the beans that I need), overall I've had a very positive experience with this grinder and it seems that based on others' descriptions, this one beats the rocky (for espresso only). (NOTE: I do not own a Rocky and I have never used one. I am making assumptions based on internet posts.)

[desrever]

This is my first grinder and I too want to vouch for it. Being a noob, I can't compare against experience on other equipment. But to the tolerances of my palate, PL53 is capable of producing an espresso that matches the taste of that served at my favorite coffeeshop, using their beans. While I was originally prepared to spend over $500 on a grinder; I figured I'd give this one a shot first since it seemed like an excellent value. The PL53 is a much nicer proportion for the home than the larger "best of breed" semi-pro grinders. I have not had clumping issues at all, there doesn't seem to be much space for detritus to collect and stale. Not much issue at all with waste or missing the (58mm) portafilter basket.

I'd be very curious to see an honest, direct comparison between this little guy and the big boys. At this point I have trouble imagining what I'm missing out on versus a Mazzer Mini, and the extra $300-$500 in my wallet feels pretty damn nice. With this new hobby I set out to match my favorite coffeeshop here in Seattle (Caffe Fiore on Queen Anne), and I've achieved that already -- weeks faster than I expected -- and I couldn't be happier with my setup, even though I violated conventional wisdom by "skimping on the grinder."

there needs to be someway that the lil tray attaches to the machine....

At first I thought the same thing, and used little 1/4" neodymium disk magnets to hold it in place. That worked fine. But then I started using it as designed with no magnet, and I found I like this even better since it leaves no gap and the tray seems to stay put just fine.

I've found the folded tabs for the portafilter to not be very useful and have been grinding into a small juice glass... but will be buying a measuring cup like one of these below soon:

As it happens, I think I have those exact measuring cups. I don't like them for cooking; they're metric sizes that closely approximate the English sizes, but are just shy so you've gotta underfill them slightly if you value accuracy (which is hard to do for flour). I expect the 1/3 cup works OK for catching grinds (I'll try tonight), but I've been going back and forth between using a ramekin and the portafilter basket. The ramekin, which is rather tall and has an upward flare, needs to be inserted at an angle to depress the button. It's a bit awkward but it works. If there were a second activation button on the side, I'd use it instead.

[HB]

If there were a second activation button on the side, I'd use it instead.

It would not be hard to adapt the modification of the Rocky Doserless switch for continuous grind to the PL53.

[desrever]

It would not be hard to adapt the modification of the Rocky Doserless switch for continuous grind to the PL53.

I removed the side panels (screwdriver and hex wrench) and had a look. Rewiring to skip the portafilter switch would be easy and could be done without having to fashion any Y cabling, just a matter of disconnecting and reconnecting the female connectors, which can be done without tools. For the full mod, one thing that could be an issue -- and I don't know if this is different from the Rocky or not -- is that the rocker switch is a double switch, that is wired on both sides of the motor. So in addition to putting the two switches in parallel on the one side, you'd have to bypass the rocker switch on the other side. But that should also be easy enough to do.

[cannonfodder]

Sounds like a double pole single throw switch but I have not seen the switch so that is a guess.

[Java Jones]

Mixed --

The PL53 is well constructed, HEAVY stainless sheet metal, and it's mirror polished. It has hefty "industrial grade" rubber feet and the heaviest power cord I've ever seen on a kitchen appliance -- contractor grade power tool heavy duty. It looks serious. It's built serious.

Overall it's nicely fitted and finished. Everything fits to tight tolerences -- which can be a challenge in stainless sheet metal fabrication. Edges are well finished, no sharp sheet metal edges or corners.

On the down-side of "tight" I found the chute extremely difficult to remove and replace. I'm a male with large hands and good grip strength and found it nearly impossible to replace the chute and get the retainer screw lined up and threaded down. I seriously skinned a knuckle in the process. It drew blood.

The end of the hopper where it fits into the grinder is machine turned. It's plastic, and I had to trim plastic burrs off the hopper before use -- so they wouldn't end up in the coffee.

The "PF tabs" on the front of the mill -- They're one piece fabrication as part of the cutout pattern for the side plates on the machine. Tabbed and folded 90 degrees from the side plates to form a porta-filter bracket under the chute. Not having a porta-filter, I searched the house for something that might work as a "catch cup." I have shot glasses, shot on the rocks glasses, small sauce cups for Bearnaise or tartar as a side on a dish. My filter for my moka pot works -- pretty much. The clearance is shallow for a porta-filter, and narrow for the under-spout on a porta-filter. The tabs barely clear a standard, commercial 1 oz. shot glass. The tabs need to go away!

The conical burrs are heavy, robust, well machined, and the resolution on the adjustment is very discrete. "Fine" grind can be adjusted to where the burrs won't turn. At the point where the burrs turn, the grind is fine enough for Turkish as I understand Turkish (finer than table salt). Coarse grind approaches "rock salt" or "chunky nuts" in peanut butter.

Resolution -- This has been a point of discussion in this thread, but only one post has quantified the resoultion. From beyond "Turkish Fine" -- where the burrs won't turn to "peanut butter chunky nuts" coarse I counted MORE THAN 100 turns on the knob. After 100 turns, I stopped counting. The knob was still turning toward more coarse. I didn't check to see if the grind was actually getting more coarse.

The knob is tight, and 100 turns will wear out a healthy hand with good grip strength. This has an up-side and a down-side. The up-side is that the burr adjustment allows a very finely tuned grind for espresso -- exquisitely fine tuned -- and once zero'd in, the adjustment should stay set.

The down-side is that this sort of grind adjustment makes the mill entirely impractical for variations in grind coarseness for applications such as drip pot, moka pot, press pot.

It's not quite as noisy as a blender -- more on the order of an electric hand mixer. RPM on burr speed compares to an electric drill.

Grinding a filter full for a moka pot takes maybe a minute -- and it's necessary to rotate the filter. Even so, the grounds stack on the left side and spill out into the catch tray. The catch tray is a good idea, but mine doesn't stay under the grounds chute. Using the grinder is a two-handed operation, and the catch tray tends to move out from under the mill.

When I was done grinding about four oz. of beans. I ended up with maybe a tablespoon of grounds on the counter, spilling out from the chute and remaining in the chute. No static, which is nice, but still a lot of spillage. I'm searching for a grinder that doesn't spill grounds all over the work area. I'm new to grinders and wonder if this is a reasonable expectation?

Grind quality is excellent -- "EXCELLENT" excellent. From very fine to very coarse, I poured out samples on a white paper towel and looked it them under a magnifying glass. Very consistent, no clumping, no dust, no static.

I want to like this grinder. It's well made, good looking, a nice size. But I'm finding that it's entirely dedicated for espresso and not at all practical for a variety of brewing methods.

In all fairness, 1st Line notes this limitation -- but I expected the adjustment from moka pot to press pot might require a half dozen turns, and because I typically only brew one method at a time, that setting up would be "doable." It's more like 30 turns from moka pot to press pot -- stiff turns on a tight knob.

I want to like this grinder, but I don't feel it's going to work for me. It's for dedicated espresso, and that's not me. As an espresso grinder -- as I understand espresso grinders -- it seems a hot product at any price.

[ntwkgestapo]

Sounds like a double pole single throw switch but I have not seen the switch so that is a guess.

YUP, DPST switch that breaks both "hot" and neutral (as most disconnect switches should for ETL/UL certification)...

[ntwkgestapo]

FINALLY got the output snout off! Once again, I tried to pull it toward me, then tried to rock it side-to-side with absolutely NO luck... THEN I tried to push the bottom of the snout toward the grinder.... Sure was good that I wasn't pushing HARD! I'd have, at a minimum, skinned my knuckles! Came off just fine!

Cleaned the chute of old grinds, put the snout back on (just pushed in place, no containment screw). Working JUST FINE now!

Tightened the grind up a bit (lots of turns, little change! ) and got much better coffee this morning... think I STILL need to go finer tho! Getting some good crema (not a LOT, but good, persistent crema) and it tastes even BETTER than before!

The journey continues!

[desrever]

The knob is tight, and 100 turns will wear out a healthy hand with good grip strength. This has an up-side and a down-side. The up-side is that the burr adjustment allows a very finely tuned grind for espresso -- exquisitely fine tuned -- and once zero'd in, the adjustment should stay set.

The down-side is that this sort of grind adjustment makes the mill entirely impractical for variations in grind coarseness for applications such as drip pot, moka pot, press pot.

I just ordered some parts for an intended mod: a $19 spinner knob and a $35 rotary counter. I also ordered a 6mm -> 4mm (5/32"), flexible shaft coupling from Misumi USA (Part number MCJ16-6-4; $4.30). Some of the cheaper components would probably have worked equally well, but these seemed the safest matches ... e.g. the long shaft on the counter, and the dual set screws on the spinner knob. McMaster-Carr had some sweeeeet looking spinner wheels and crank knobs, but they all needed to be machined.

The idea is to drive the rotary counter by attaching to the free (left side) end of the 6mm worm-gear shaft, drill a hole in the side, and have the counter exposed on the left side of the grinder. Not yet sure how the counter will attach to the grinder body, but I'll figure something out.

Hopefully this'll let me replicate grind settings when switching between coffees, and also do the occasional drip or vac pot grind without having to totally recalibrate the grinder for espresso afterwards. The spinner knob will make it easier to do the tens / hundreds of turns necessary for the press pot.

Succeed or fail, whatever happens, I'll post it here.

Nick

[HB]

Hopefully this'll let me replicate grind settings when switching between coffees, and also do the occasional drip or vac pot grind without having to totally recalibrate the grinder for espresso afterwards. The spinner knob will make it easier to do the tens / hundreds of turns necessary for the press pot.

Interesting solution, but wouldn't it be easier to buy a second grinder? A manual Zassenhaus coffee mill goes for $70 new and less on eBay (search on Zassenhaus+Coffee+Mills). Or even a travel grinder (from espressoparts or REI).

[desrever]

Easier yes, but not nearly as much fun.

[HB]

I don't want to spoil your fun, but I am a little concerned your turbo turning will result in excessive wear of the adjustment mechanism. And needless to say, your modification will void the warranty.

[desrever]

In my case I'm not so concerned about wear. My primary goal is really to be able to recall the absolute grind setting when switching between coffees for espresso. I'd originally considered doing something like a paper-clip indicator needle (seen this elsewhere on the forums), with some kind of scale on the hopper, but couldn't come up with a good way to make that work reliably, since the hopper isn't keyed into the base in any way. I don't expect to need to switch to a coarse grind but a couple of times a year.

[HB]

Split follow-on discussion to Significant pour difference.

[Mike Panic]

time for a one month follow up

got the adjustment knob back on finally, 2mm allen wrench - no real need though, i rarely have to adjust it

this thing works flawlessly. those who are looking for an AMAZING budget grinder that will choke any machine, this is it.

i have no complaints i pull two doubles every morning through my europiccola and it works, thats all i ask for.

if i had any suggestions, they would be:

* better sealed hopper lid
* concaved button, not convexed

i'm sure a better hopper could be fabricated without much hassle but i don't keep more than 1/3 of the hopper full at anytime

one thing i did notice is that the fuller the hopper, the faster it grinds, probably due to the extra bean weight.

so yea - a month deep and i'm very very happy.

[jariten22]

I'm very happy a month later as well. It's consistent enough that I'm confident that when I upgrade from my toy espresso machine to something more serious, the Le'lit won't be holding me back. I'm still surprised at how it produces zero static even on dry winter days. The two changes I'd make to the design would be: 1) getting rid of the pf holder flaps (they just get in the way), and 2) make the pf trigger switch easier to depress - it takes enough force to trigger that the whole grinder gets pushed back on my counter until it hits the back wall. But these are just nitpicking. They don't annoy me enough to even think about bothering to mod them away

[1st-line]

Thanks for the feedback.

I still have my prototype running at my house... unfortunately, all was well until the beginning of this week... I changed beans. All hell broke loose as static was everywhere.... I changed to a different blend, and all is well.

I just can not figure out why this occurs. I have had the same thing happen on a Rocky, Mazzer and even the larger Ditting grinders we use when we grind coffee for our commercial accounts.

With regards to the changes....

I will probably motion Lelit to remove them as I am working on another project for this grinder. The pf switch is made by a third party and is common to the espresso machine industry. Although I am not sure if they will change it, but I will present the challenge.

As for the bean hopper, this will be a very expensive change if the mold had to be changed. I already made lelit change it once. You should have seen the original hopper. It was really bad!

[ntwkgestapo]

Now that I've had the Le'Lit for over a month, some observations.

1) As others have noticed, the grind speed (grinds in the filter) changes as the bean load decreases, BUT, I've noticed that if I keep the bean load well above the point where the hopper shape changes (goes from vertical to the curve to the inlet throat of the grinder) then I rarely have to change the grind settings! Once it hits the curved point (top of the beans in the hopper) then grind changes have to be made, pretty much, on a session to session basis (and maybe even shot to shot). Not a PROBLEM, just an observation (and yours may not! ). I usually keep 6-8 ounces of beans in the hopper, as a starting point with a new bean/blend.
2) The grinder does keep a bit of ground coffee in the "chute" (the area between the outlet of the burrs and the exit to the downspout), seems to be about 3-3.5 grams (I've actually cleaned it out and weighted it).
3) This is the MOST adjustable grinder I've ever worked with! TINY changes in the grind for fairly large "turns of the knob". I'm sure there are other grinders out there (the Cimbali Jr and Max Hybrid come to mind) that are probably as adjustable (and may be more, I've not had experience with others), but this thing is amazing!

Jim, IF it was time to "refresh" the mold used to make the hopper, I'd suggest they do a bit to "steepen" the transition from the vertical part to the inlet (less curve, more straight line), but I DO understand the expense of making a new mold. They are NOT cheap! (My grandfather was a Millwright/tool & die maker for Dupont a LOOONG time ago!).

Overall I've had NO problems with this grinder and would STILL recommend it to anyone looking for an inexpensive "single mode" grinder (i.e. espresso only or drip only, etc).

[bsalinas]

Just to chime in, now that I've used this grinder somewhat heavily for the past month and a half.
I'm still very impressed with the grinder. I've further compared it to a Rocky Doserless and a Rocky Doser, and prefer it over both. I have actually found that the fine adjustment isn't too hard to work around (I just count the number of turns it takes me to get from espresso to vac pot- about 15 half turns- and usually can dial my espresso in with a single shot). If I was buying a new grinder (at the level of a Rocky), I would definitely choose this grinder over the Rocky. It is cleaner, faster, and produces a fluffier grind.

Another thing that I've enjoyed about it, that I didn't realize at first, is how easy it is to change beans. Over the past few weeks, I've been brewing 4-6 different coffees each week and when it is time to change coffees, I simply pick the grinder up and pour it back into the bag. That is something which can't be done with the Rocky (simply because of its bulkiness).
I'm really digging this grinder, and I think it will hold me over till I find a nice used Super Jolly.
I'm on a short visit to California, and I was very close to bringing my Le'Lit (but decided that was a bit over the top at the last minute). It packs away nicely.

[oconee]

Newbie here. I will add my comments. I purchased this grinder on the recommendations of this Forum, and compared to my original grinder (Starbucks Barista), this seems to be a very capable grinder. The adjustments are extremely fine, and I can easily choke my machine (Gaggia Coffee). As a matter of fact, when the machine arrived it was adjusted so fine that practically no espresso came out of the machine on my first try. To follow up on the comments concerning the amount of grounds remaining in the chute, I do agree. I try to clean out the chute after I'm finished with a session so that no stale grounds remain to be include in the first pull of the next espresso (may be several days for me). I have used a chop stick and toothbrush, and the cleaning is fairly easy. CAUTION: I was using a chop stick to drag out remaining grounds and must have pushed on the plastic 'sweeper' arm, because when I went to use the grinder afterwards it hung for a moment and then one of the 'sweeper' arms flew out! I did not think that I had pushed on anything with any pressure, but??? The good thing is that the grinder is still working the same as before. I don't know how many of these arms are present (2, 3, or 4?), but I'm going to be super careful from now on since if I'm down to the last arm I don't want to lose that! I wonder how difficult it would be to change? Anyway, I am very pleased with the grinder, especially at the price ($200). Thanks to 1st Line and the members on this forum for the great tip.