La Marzocco GS3 Disappointment

[Rosemary]

Hi Last Friday I took delivery of a new GS3 that I have had on order since the beginning of January. So you can imagine the state of caffeination over the weekend. The quality of the coffee is superb and I'm loving the quality of the microfoam. I still need plenty of practice as it is quite powerful. They supplied a three hole tip. I'm looking forward to playing around with the temperature. Is the Scace device a good purchase for this as I'd love to see consistency of temperature and what happens after a couple of hours of machine idle. The programming appears to be quite straight forward and I like the fact that they have made the boiler temperatures easily accessible via a quick key.

Like Klaus reported on Coffeed.com back in Sept last year I am also disappointed with the build quality. The water tank has sensors at the back which are used to send the message to the machine when water is low and the tank needs refilling. If the water tank is not fitted in correctly the message to refill tank comes up and the machine shuts down. The water tank is held in place by the drip tray in front of the tank. I was very disappointed to see that it appears the integrity of the machine has been compromised in the attempt to hold the drip tray. There are two lugs on the bottom of the drip tray that are designed to sit into the holes drilled at the front of the frame of the machine.


As you can see they are sitting over the holes, not in them, as the front bar that I think has been added since Teme's machine was produced has significant upward curvature and acts like a bit of a spring under the drip tray.


The holes for the lugs have also been expanded rather crudely in an attempt to get the lugs to fit in leaving the front bar connected by very little metal and it looks as though over time with the tray going in & out it will ultimately break leaving nothing to hold the water tank in place.



I have a technician from the Australian distributor Allpress coming on Friday to have a look -the first day that worked for both of us. I am surprised though that it was shipped in this state. Is there anyone else who has seen one of the recently released machines who would be able to say if this is specific to my machine or is it how they are all being shipped. I sent the photos to La Marzocco yesterday so hopefully I will hear something from them soon but they haven't yet responded to an email I sent last Friday. If anyone is going up to Tokyo and has a chance to look at the GS3 there I would love to see if it is the same.

Rosemary

[MachoSilvia]

Wow! Excellent acquisition! its a shame to hear about the build quality issues however..
how difficult was it to get a GS3 in Australia? Does Allpress have a stock now? I live in New zealand, and am curious about the GS3 and if they are shipped to NZ (seeing as Allpress sells them in Aussie)

[Rosemary]

Hi I have no idea sorry if they have stock or if they are only to order at the moment. I have had this one on order since the beginning of the year. I'm sure Allpress NZ could give you an update.
Rosemary

[cannonfodder]

Wow, that is ridiculous! I could not imagine LM just routing open a frame hole and leaving it that jagged and unpainted. Raw steel under a drip tray equals rust. That small thread of steel remaining on the left will not last long along with the small welded piece in the top right, is the other side that way? When those let go (and they will let go after some use) you will have a broken frame. I am sure that was disappointing but glad the shots are good.

I am thinking I made the right choice when I opted for the Elektra A3 instead of the GS3.

[Beezer]

That is very disappointing for such an expensive and highly anticipated machine. I'd be upset if I saw that kind of build quality on a $500 machine, much less a $4,500 one. I hope LM makes it right and replaces the defective parts. It will be interesting to see whether the other GS3's have similar problems.

[Teme]

There are two lugs on the bottom of the drip tray that are designed to sit into the holes drilled at the front of the frame of the machine.

As you can see they are sitting over the holes, not in them, as the front bar that I think has been added since Teme's machine was produced has significant upward curvature and acts like a bit of a spring under the drip tray.

You should have the lugs in the holes, otherwise the drip tray is not in place properly and you may get the "refill tank" error even if you have sufficient water in the reservoir. I visited the La Marzocco factory last week and discussed the tweaks they have made to the machine since the first production models (e.g. mine):

* the legs of the machine now have a new design, being slightly narrower at the top and slightly wider at the bottom

* the water reservoir has been redesigned - the new one is of better quality and is transparent instead of black and the new reservoir also has a lift-off lid instead of a "pop-open" one

* the steam boiler now comes with partial insulation (top and back of the boiler)

* some insulation has been added to the back of the machine's shell

* the machine now comes with the three hole steam tip

* the grouphead cap is now made of different material - the old one was prone to cracking

* the software has been updated - the current machines appear to have v.1.11 while mine is v.1.08 (I do not know what the differences are, though)

* the mixer for the hot water tap is now a different component

* the side panels in the later machines are of slightly glossier and smoother plastic (as opposed to more matt and slightly crinckled finish)

* the cupwarming tray is of different design - now the same design as the drip tray cover (but of thinner metal and a poorer fit than in the early machines IMO)

* the steam wand and hot water wand attachments have been reinforced (while I have had no problems, I have learned of a couple of failures on the old design)

* the buttons under display are now white instead of blue (but still backlit in blue), and with different graphics

* there is rubber seal surrounding grouphead "neck" (sealing against front panel of the machine)

* there is an additional metal support brace for the brew boiler's right end (when looking from front to back)

* there is an additional cross brace in front of the machine, under the drip tray (as you noted)

* in the later machines the serial number plate is located in the lower left side of the machine instead of the front panel

So clearly La Marzocco is addressing any issues there have been (the steam tip, the cracking grouphead cap and the reservoir design are the only issues I have encountered and all of these have been addressed).

Pity about the holes for the drip tray lugs on your machine. Mine are not nearly as bad, but I agree that the finish on those could be better.

Br,
Teme

[Randy G.]

Regardless of the long list of improvements, for the price of this machine (or any) that sort of build quality is unacceptable. If my first machine (a $380 Silvia) had come that way I would have returned it. it looks like a middle school student took a die grinder to it for practice. I hope that they say something like it was a test model or shop machine that shouldn't have been shipped, or such. For what those machines cost (more then the used Volvo I currently drive cost me!) I would expect more, and particularly from LM. I wonder what other shortcuts they took in designing or constructing the machine? Sad indeed.

[jesawdy]

I think the US market wait list members can be thankful that they have to wait as all these things get worked out.

[Rosemary]

Hi Many thanks for all your replies. The plot thickens as from your description Teme, my machine appears to be the latest model, I have the front bar, white buttons, the serial number (0065) is on the bottom left side etc but I have the old black tank. I queried this with Greg at Allpress (Sydney) and he said he knew nothing about any plans by La Marzocco to change the tank.

I totally agree Teme the lugs should be in the holes but due to the curvature upward of the front bar the tray is lifted out and will not stay sitting in them. The machine has turned itself off a few times due to this.

I was hoping La Marzocco may have got back to me overnight so I will try ringing again. I have sent them several photos of my machine. I sent an email last Friday to info@lamarzocco.com to enquire what should be in the box as I received no baskets with it (they have since sent me a blind, single and double) and I enquired about the black tank as it looked identical to Teme's. The tank also had multiple scratch marks on it. As I received no reply I phoned La Marzocco Tuesday and was advised to email Ettore. I wrote to Ettore on Tuesday and sent photos Wednesday. Can anyone advise who I should contact there when I phone again today?

I am very upset about all this. AUD$6700 is a lot of money. I think the machine needs to be replaced but there is a lot of silence from La Marzocco.

Rosemary

[Teme]

I have the old black tank. I queried this with Greg at Allpress (Sydney) and he said he knew nothing about any plans by La Marzocco to change the tank.

The new reservoirs have just come in and I did not get the new version either, yet. However, according to La Marzocco all GS3 owners who have the old reservoir will get the new one through their supplier in due course. This shouldn't be long now if I understood things correctly. Perhaps you could have another chat with Greg (also with regards to the fit of the drip tray and the lug holes - also see below).

I totally agree Teme the lugs should be in the holes but due to the curvature upward of the front bar the tray is lifted out and will not stay sitting in them. The machine has turned itself off a few times due to this.

At first I had to push the drip tray in place quite firmly - it was a very tight fit and I had to use some force (more than I thought would be necessary). After a few refills things got better and the tray started slotting into place nicely. The new reservoir should also alleviate the unnecessary turning off (I've heard others experiencing this problem although I have not - at least not to date).

Can anyone advise who I should contact there when I phone again today?

You should note that you are unlikely to reach anyone between 12 noon and 2 pm CET. Also, the factory closes for vacation on August 3rd if I remember correctly (at least up until August 20th - again if I recall correctly). In my experience the people at LM are extremely nice, accommodating and responsive. I will send you a pm separately.

Br,
Teme

[k7qz]

That is very disappointing for such an expensive and highly anticipated machine. I'd be upset if I saw that kind of build quality on a $500 machine, much less a $4,500 one.

+1

I think the US market wait list members can be thankful that they have to wait as all these things get worked out.

Yes but it seems to be an overall QC issue, not just a list of post-release design improvements. I haven't seen such sloppy Italian workmanship ("fixes") performed by a factory since my '74 Moto Guzzi Eldorado.

Given these types of experiences, future buyers will need caveat emptor. Peek under the hood before laying down multiple layers of cash on the barrelhead.

Here's hoping LM makes this right for you!

[Teme]

Yes but it seems to be an overall QC issue, not just a list of post-release design improvements. I haven't seen such sloppy Italian workmanship ("fixes") performed by a factory since my '74 Moto Guzzi Eldorado.

Isn't this getting a bit out of proportion here?

I would keep in mind the fact that the only "major" issue being discussed here are the two holes that hold the drip tray in place, right? I agree that they are crude, especially in this unit, but you don't make coffee with these holes do you? The other couple of issues that I have heard of or experienced have been the grouphead cap (quickly fixed), the steam tip (quickly fixed), the wand attachments (quickly fixed) and the water reservoir (quickly fixed). I am extremely happy with my machine and have had no other issues in the 6 months of ownership - I am extremely happy with the machine.

With regards to these issues I think we also need to keep in mind the fact that these machines are hand built in small numbers (around 120 to date). As a result it is not surprising that one sees changes in some components over time.

With regards to bugs or QC issues - have you ever bought the first sample of a new car off the production line that has zero issues with it? Ok, some of the Japanese ones have been surprisingly trouble free, but even they have recalls. Or look at things this way - which car is built better and of better materials, a new Corvette or a new VW Golf? In my opinion the latter is vastly better built on both counts. How about a Ferrari F430 and an Audi A3? Again I think the latter wins. But which car in each of these pairs would you rather have?

Also, I again point out that I have had zero usability issues with my GS3 after I had it set-up and got the right steam tip. And the coffee is better than ever - at least for me...

Br,
Teme

[Niko]

I opted for two Vivaldi machines for the price of one GS3...not a bad deal.
I still would like to get a GS3 when they finally work out the kinks and the plumbing end of the machine. I know I read of a plumbing kit somewhere available (or soon to be), any of you GS3 owners have yours plumbed in yet?

How much does a GS3 weigh? I couldn't find any specs on the weight of the machine.
Nice machine, overpriced but you get what you pay for .

[HB]

Isn't this getting a bit out of proportion here? I would keep in mind the fact that the only "major" issue being discussed here are the two holes that hold the drip tray in place, right? I agree that they are crude, especially in this unit, but you don't make coffee with these holes do you?

I believe this is one of those "matter of principle" moments. The GS3 commands a premium price. I imagine myself unboxing my highly anticipated fresh from the factory La Marzocco, and then seeing this:



What, you have got to be kidding!?! I would be livid. Not because it makes any functional difference, but because it shows utter disregard for craftsmanship, plain and simple. Even though La Marzocco will surely make it right, I wonder what other workmanship oversights await new owners like Rosemary.

[Teme]

I know I read of a plumbing kit somewhere available (or soon to be), any of you GS3 owners have yours plumbed in yet?

Mine and three others I have seen came with the plumbing in kit. I am still running from the reservoir, but as I am planning a move, in the new location (when it happens) the machine will be plumbed in&out.

How much does a GS3 weigh? I couldn't find any specs on the weight of the machine.

37 kg dry weight. Around 41 kg with the boilers filled and the reservoir empty. around 44 kg with a full reservoir (more if you have water in the drip tray). Not a machine that is easy to haul around by a single person (at least not of my build).

I believe this is one of those "matter of principle" moments. The GS3 commands a premium price. I imagine myself unboxing my highly anticipated fresh from the factory La Marzocco, and then seeing this. What, you have got to be kidding!?! I would be livid. Not because it makes any functional difference, but because it shows utter disregard for craftsmanship, plain and simple.

Fair enough. The expectations towards a machine of this price range are high. You expect perfection. The lug holes on Rosemary's example are by far the worst I have seen on any of the GS3's and I understand her disappointment despite the fact that I still personally consider this a minor flaw. I hope (and trust) that Rosemary and her distributor / LM will find an amicable resolution.

Br,
Teme

[Teme]

Oh, I just wanted to add an image of the equivalent drilled "lug-hole" from my GS3 for comparative purposes...



Not perfect, but a lot better than Rosemary's.

Br,
Teme

[Randy G.]

Isn't this getting a bit out of proportion here?

Not even close to out of proportion. Are you serious? $4500 USD for an espresso machine that doesn't work properly when new, arrives with missing parts, and is assured to rust because someone poorly (amateurishly!) had ground holes in it and didn't bother to finish them or paint the bare metal? To me, that machine is akin to buying a top of the line Mercedes to find that someone installed a satellite antenna using a hatchet to open the hole in the roof for the cable and then didn't seal the hole properly.

I would keep in mind the fact that the only "major" issue being discussed here are the two holes that hold the drip tray in place, right? I agree that they are crude, especially in this unit, but you don't make coffee with these holes do you?

That is a poor excuse for the lowest quality craftsmanship... "It's not a defect- It's a feature."

The other couple of issues that I have heard of or experienced have been the grouphead cap (quickly fixed), the steam tip (quickly fixed), the wand attachments (quickly fixed) and the water reservoir (quickly fixed). I am extremely happy with my machine and have had no other issues in the 6 months of ownership - I am extremely happy with the machine.

Issues that you have had are not relevant here.

With regards to these issues I think we also need to keep in mind the fact that these machines are hand built in small numbers (around 120 to date). As a result it is not surprising that one sees changes in some components over time.

Which would make you think that they should have caught these problems. "I got a beautiful Rolex, and except for the fact that they forgot to put the hands on, it is a beautiful watch. Hey! It NEARLY keeps time."

With regards to bugs or QC issues - have you ever bought the first sample of a new car off the production line that has zero issues with it?

This machine has been in development for years, and numerous early units have been seen and tested iirc. It is, by all accounts, THE most expensive and highly developed espresso machine ever made for home use. It should be nearly perfect for that price.

I spoke with the LM folks at the Long Beach SCAA show and could have negotiated for an GS3 at a good price with little difficulty... After seeing those images I am now glad I didn't. The rep even went so far as saying something like, "We could work something out." Even at a "deal" price, if my machine had arrived looking like that I would have been one PO'd puppy!

[Rosemary]

The technician has just been and has straightened the bar so the drip tray will sit in. I wasn't prepared to do that in case it came off in my hand. He said they plumbed it in to bench test and hadn't noticed the holes. He will discuss them with Greg. This I can easily believe because I didn't notice them until I tried to work out why the tray was not fitting easily. We'll await the result of the discussion. It would be interesting know what the holes look like on the machine in Tokyo.

Rosemary

[Teme]

$4500 USD for an espresso machine that doesn't work properly when new

Mine has worked perfectly from day 2 (a friend came over to help set the machine up properly and I could have waited for a few more days to have the retailer set it up for full operation from day 1 of receipt).

arrives with missing parts

What parts were missing from yours? I do not recall any missing parts on mine. In fact I have not yet had use for the plumbing in kit or all of the 7 filter baskets that came with the machine (or was it 8?)...

is assured to rust because someone poorly (amateurishly!) had ground holes in it and didn't bother to finish them or paint the bare metal?

I do not think I have had a single drop of water getting in touch with this area to date. But as I said, this is a point that could have been finished a lot better (especially in Rosemary's machine).

Issues that you have had are not relevant here

I am just trying to be open about my personal experiences with the machine in question and share this. Is this irrelevant to other GS3 owners?

"I got a beautiful Rolex, and except for the fact that they forgot to put the hands on, it is a beautiful watch. Hey! It NEARLY keeps time."

I don't think this analogy works. Not only does the GS3 keep time (perhaps more accurately than a Rolex), but does what it is intended to do exceptionally well - make coffee. No fault whatsoever here in my opinion and I have not heard anyone else dispute this so far, either. Do you?

This machine has been in development for years, and numerous early units have been seen and tested iirc. It is, by all accounts, THE most expensive and highly developed espresso machine ever made for home use. It should be nearly perfect for that price.

In my opinion it is nearly perfect.

I spoke with the LM folks at the Long Beach SCAA show and could have negotiated for an GS3 at a good price with little difficulty... After seeing those images I am now glad I didn't. The rep even went so far as saying something like, "We could work something out." Even at a "deal" price, if my machine had arrived looking like that I would have been one PO'd puppy!

Good for you.

It looks to me like this is getting ugly so I'll try and restrain myself from here on. I just think things should be kept in perspective. My personal opinion and others may disagree.

Br,
Teme

[HB]

I don't think this analogy works. Not only does the GS3 keep time (perhaps more accurately than a Rolex), but does what it is intended to do exceptionally well - make coffee.

The analogy works for me. Much of what you pay for in a Rolex, Mercedes, or La Marzocco is impeccable workmanship, not just that the product performs its intended function well. I'm glad Rosemary brought this 'minor' problem up. Such a hack would be noted for equipment reviewed on this site costing 1/3 the price of the GS3. She's got every right to be miffed. The good news is that by all accounts, La Marzocco addresses such concerns promptly. I look forward to Rosemary's update.