La Cimbali Max Grinder - a first look

[jesawdy]

Well, I am a sucker for gear and I happened to be cruising eBay briefly late one evening, and before I knew it, I had purchased one of these:

La Cimbali Max grinder


As you may or may not already know, I am interested in La Cimbali machines (for no particular reason), and I have a La Cimbali M32 Bistro single-group commercial machine (also from a late night eBay cruising ). In addition, I have the La Cimbali Junior grinder, which I think is a great machine. The Cimbali Junior grinder plays second fiddle to the Mazzer Mini a bit too much IMHO (admittedly, the Mazzer Mini is perhaps a bit more of a "looker")

Did I need this grinder? No. Did I want to see what it was all about? Most definitely.

This particular grinder is a bit of an oddity, since it would appear that very few are imported into the US. The unique feature of this grinder is that it uses a combination conical and flat burr very much like the Versalab M3. Otherwise, as you can tell from the picture it is very similar to the La Cimbali Junior grinder.

Here are the tech specs from the La Cimbali website:

Body - Silver version
Grinding - start and stop automatic
Motor - Single-phase
Motor output (W) - 300
Grinding stones - Flat - conic
Grinding stones' diameter (mm - in) - 64 - 2.5"
Output per hour (approx. kg -lb.) - 7,5 - 16.5
Coffee beans' hopper capacity (approx. Kg - lb) - 1 - 2.2
Height x Depth x Width (mm - in) - 470x360x225 - 18.5"x14.2"x8.9"

The machine's main differences from the La Cimbali Junior grinder (apart from the burr design) are the hopper capacity (2.2 lbs vs. 1.65 lbs), the height (18.5 inches vs. 17 inches) and the automatic start/stop feature for filling the doser (a bad thing). Motor power, the doser design, the case, the doser forks, the grinds catch tray, the hopper lid, etc. are all identical between the two grinders. There are a few other subtle differences that I will touch on later.

I have had the Max grinder for a week today and will post some more details about this grinder, in particular how it compares (favorably and unfavorably, in design mostly) against the Junior grinder.

[jesawdy]

The biggest drawback of the La Cimbali Max grinder for a home barista, is its height. At 18.5 inches, the grinder is a bit of a pig. This is not going to work in too many kitchens. Another drawback, also related to height, is the non-removable hopper. Unlike the Mazzer Super Jolly, or the Mazzer Major, you're not going to just remove the hopper, and pour your beans down the grinder's throat. Many folks just remove the Mazzer hoppers, and get down to 14-16 inches pretty simply.

The Junior is much more refined in this area. Even with a very commodious 1.65 lb hopper (short and squat), at 17" inches, it should find its' way under the majority of upper kitchen cabinets.


Junior versus Max - Junior on the Left, Max on the right


Junior, just shy of 17 inches


Max, right at 18.5 inches (up or down, on my 37 inch rule )

[zix]

interesting! If I may ask, where did you buy your grinder?

The hopper is supposedly possible to unscrew. Is this so?

[cannonfodder]

Jeff got it from eBay, a Chris Coffee special. He sends me an email letting me know about this awesome buy it now deal on the Max, then twenty minutes later send me another email letting me know it was too good a deal to pass up and he grabbed it. Rub salt in that wound, but hey, I got my A3, he he he...

[zix]

A fast boy! rrrhhhh.... I have been searching ebay USA, Germany, Italy, Netherlands and so on for the past month or so, and never saw this. Not that it would have made any difference, I am on the wrong side of the pond for ordering from chriscoffee anyway, so maybe it was just as well that I didn't see it.

Anyway... somewhat larger doser too, it seems? Does it sweep clean?

[quar]

How hard is it going to be to get new burrs?

Mike

[jesawdy]

interesting! If I may ask, where did you buy your grinder?

The hopper is supposedly possible to unscrew. Is this so?

As Dave said, it was an eBay find. The grinder wasn't directly from Chris' Coffee, but it was resold via Chris, and came from someone that buys up equipment from closed shops. At this time, Chris has not imported any of these grinders.

The hopper is removed via three screws within the hopper. Unfortunately, you are left with a rather unsightly view into the grinder housing. The exposed throat is very short, and an extension tube would be needed if you wanted to feed beans on a per shot basis.

Wait for some more pics for details on the hopper (and the doser),

[jesawdy]

How hard is it going to be to get new burrs?

Mike, I haven't looked yet. They may end up being special order items (and perhaps a long wait), but I THINK the flat burrs will be easily sourced. The conicals, perhaps not so easy. That being said, the concial burrs in this grinder are crushing only and not shearing, so they should last a very long time. Burr pictures coming soon.

[jesawdy]

Okay, here is a look inside the Cimbali Max. I have removed the hopper, and we are looking at the grinder throat, the top black ring is the grind indicator ring. To the far left, you can just see one of the three tabs that the hopper screws go into. The hopper screws extend through the hopper and attach to the front left, rear center, and front right of the housing.


Cimabli Max, grinder throat, black is grind setting indicator ring

The above picture captures one of my complaints with both the Junior and the Max grinder. What's up with all those beans sitting on the ring? They're stuck there for the most part, not too likely to make it to the grinders throat. This is an area for improvement in the hopper design. Also, this picture shows what you'd be looking at with the hopper removed.... little to no throat, and exposed housing, motor, wiring and capacitors.

Okay, remove the three screws and we can remove the indicator ring to expose the worm gear-driven adjustment ring.


Cimbali Max, adjustment ring and worm gear

Pop off the adjustment ring, and we see the top burr and burr carrier.


Cimbali Max, top burr installed

Unscrew the top burr and burr carrier to expose the bottom burrs.


Cimbali Max, conical center burr and flat bottom burr

I am happy with the small amount of grind retained around the outer perimeter of the bottom burr. This seems a touch better than the Junior, but will need more run through it to see what accumulates.

[jesawdy]

I don't have any direct experience with the Versalab M3 grinder, but the burr sets are similar, but not identical.... The Max center conical has 8 points, the M3 has 6, the Max outer conical has 12 points, the M3 has 15. The flat burrs appear to be the same on both.

To compare the Max and the M3 grinders is a little silly... beyond the burr set, there are no real comparisons between these two grinders. The Versalab has a very unique grind distribution and doserless design. The Max is like any other doser design grinder out there. The grinds are still pushed out a chute and fall into the doser. How well are the grinds thrown, pushed, or extruded out the grinder chute? It is too early to comment on that yet.


Cimbali Max, top conical burr


Cimbali Max, top flat burr


Cimbali Max, center conical and bottom flat burrs

Compare these to the Versalab M3 burrs (from Abe's review):


M3 burr set


M3 top flat burr

M3 lower burr set

[zix]

Oh my! Thank you very much for taking the burr set apart for us!
Fantastic. First time for me, seeing pictures proving that the burr sets are not the same. Hmmm, that hopper will need modifying... some kind of lid, and a pipe... I'll post a sketch later.

[another_jim]

The DRM conical burr used in the Max is not sold in the aftermarket; so Versalab fabricated their own. The flat continues to be sold in the aftermarket. This is logical -- the conical only acts as an augur and never needs to be replaced; the flat burr is the only part that wears out.

[zix]

I know I have seen images of this somewhere, done on a Junior grinder, recently. And some other guy who made an extra funnel that he stuck to the bottom of the hopper. But I can't find any of them (to tired) so here is a sketch.
I thought it might be possible to run a pipe through the hopper bottom, or perhaps to glue one bottom pipe and one top pipe to it. If not, it would be necessary to make a new hopper bottom plate to cover the innards and fasten the pipe to that.

Hope someone understands what I mean. The dark grey bottom oval is meant to be that outer ring where the beans get stuck as it is now.

[jesawdy]

I know I have seen images of this somewhere, done on a Junior grinder, recently. And some other guy who made an extra funnel that he stuck to the bottom of the hopper. But I can't find any of them ....

Hope someone understands what I mean. The dark grey bottom oval is meant to be that outer ring where the beans get stuck as it is now.

Zix, I follow... and that would work nicely. I'm not interested in any mods right now for my use. Kristi here has added a tube internal to the Junior to improve the situation. Pic from CG:


Kristi's Junior

And here's another, less pretty solution.

There are three options to shorten this bad boy (and keep it looking good),
(1) replace the hopper with the Junior hopper (it will fit with the slightest of mods),
(2) cut the Max hopper down, the top few inches are straight-sided, if you could get a clean cut(?) the lid should still fit
(3) make a nice cover and tube as you propose

[jesawdy]

Okay, does the Junior hopper fit the Max? Yes, but it will require the slightest of mods in my case.

I will note that my Cimbali Max grinder has a manufacture date of 2002 and serial number 60 (!) and my Junior grinder has a manufacture date of 2005, so things may be different now.

There is a very slight difference in the bend of the metal grinder housing tabs that the hopper attaches to.

Jr on left, Max on right


Junior hopper, note the screw mount extends just beyond the bottom of the hopper's side


Max hopper, note the screw mount stops short of the bottom of the hopper's side

The black metal trim ring at the top of the metal housing is interchangeable between the two. The Max hopper fits the Junior just fine, but the Junior hopper will not sit flush to the top trim ring unless you cut or grind down the screw mount (the plastic where the screw passes through the hopper), maybe 1/4 inch or so.

So it will work easily enough, but the rub is that it may be hard to source a Cimbali Junior hopper grinder from a parts supplier. I haven't seen the hopper on parts websites, but I would hope it is available, it is breakable after all. The second rub might be the cost, Cimbali really likes most of their parts, so it may be a costly item. If anyone finds a hopper available, please let me know.

[jesawdy]

I'm in no hurry to swap hoppers between Max and Junior, here's why...


Max in the kitchen


Might be 1mm to spare!

[zix]

oooooh, that looks more like 0.5 mm to me. Tight! At least you don't need the lid.
Is this a fast grinder, by the way? Tech data has claimed the same RPM as for the Junior, but does it grind as fast, slower or faster? Do the grinds get warm?
Then we have that thing about how the shots taste compared to when grinding with the Junior, but I suppose you will come to that?

[jesawdy]

I do not know what the rotational speed is for sure yet.... I'm working on that.

The Cimbali Max does grind slower than the Junior, but not sure if it is a function of rotational speed and/or burr design. It takes ~15 seconds to grind 18 grams. This was a one time quickie measurement, so I will check it out some more. If I had to guess, I'd say the Junior grinds in 2/3 the time.

I haven't looked at grind temp, as a home-barista, it should not really be an area of concern. If I get the ability to, I will add to this thread.

No side by side shot comparisons yet... some day.

[jesawdy]

The doser design on the Max and Junior are identical.... the only real difference is in the doser lid, and the Max has an auto grind feature. On the Max, when the doser is full, it will shut off. The "paddle" switch / finger guard on my Max is missing, so the auto grind feature is disabled. My Junior doser vanes sweep REALLY well, and the MAX not as well. I haven't had the MAX doser apart yet to see if there may be a problem preventing a good sweep.... if not, then the electrical tape mod should be considered.


Max doser lid and grind adjustment knob on right side.


Junior doser lid and grind adjustment knob on left front.


Max full hopper switch (white), paddle switch/finger guard missing.


Junior integral finger guard.

[zix]

I am curious to know, jesawdy: how are you doing with the Max? Getting to grips with the doser yet? Do lots of grinds get stuck in the chute or is it about the same as with the Junior?