La Cimbali Max Grinder - a first look - Page 4

[T.J.]

Hello again everyone.

After working closely with Chris from Chris Coffee and also sharing thoughts and E-mails with Ken, we went full forward in developing the Max Junior Hybrid grinder.
The Motor is a 1400 RPM motor with three capacitors to increase start power and grind accuracy.

The design includes all of those functions which have made the Junior Grinder, in my opinion, one of the best quality grinders for the home available today. The improvements lie within the conical burr inclusion which had been a design reserved only for the MAX. The MAX however; had many attributes which made it not a perfect fit for many home enthusiasts (ie. height etc.)

Because of Chris' complete devotion to this project, we have made this system available only through him.

I have placed one of these new Max Hybrids at my home to go alongside my M-21 Junior DT/1 and am very excited about the results thus far. However; we leave it to all of you, the true experts, to render judgement on this project.

Ciao,

[Ken Fox]

Hello again everyone.

After working closely with Chris from Chris Coffee and also sharing thoughts and E-mails with Ken, we went full forward in developing the Max Junior Hybrid grinder.
The Motor is a 1400 RPM motor with three capacitors to increase start power and grind accuracy.

The design includes all of those functions which have made the Junior Grinder, in my opinion, one of the best quality grinders for the home available today. The improvements lie within the conical burr inclusion which had been a design reserved only for the MAX. The MAX however; had many attributes which made it not a perfect fit for many home enthusiasts (ie. height etc.)

Because of Chris' complete devotion to this project, we have made this system available only through him.

I have placed one of these new Max Hybrids at my home to go alongside my M-21 Junior DT/1 and am very excited about the results thus far. However; we leave it to all of you, the true experts, to render judgement on this project.

Ciao,

Hi TJ,

I think this was a project well worth doing. I really like the two (unmodified) Maxs that you were so kind to get for me, when you were evaluating the possibility of doing this project. I modified them to remove some (autodosing, switch) but not all (height) of the unattractive features of the original Max, as applies to home usage. I like the grinders so much that I'm seriously considering getting a 3rd one from Chris, as I do like to have 3 grinders in my kitchen and the Compak conical I bought is too ugly to leave there for too long. (I'd prefer to reserve the Compak for those rare occasions when I "need" 4 grinders )

Thanks for your efforts in getting this grinder built. I'm sure it will find it's right place in the hierarchy of grinders that an almost-sane home barista would put in their home!

ken

[charlesaf3]

I'm seriously leaning towards buying the max hybrid - is there a review somewhere? I'm having trouble locating one, though did find and enjoy this thread.

Thanks

[Ken Fox]

I'm seriously leaning towards buying the max hybrid - is there a review somewhere? I'm having trouble locating one, though did find and enjoy this thread.

Thanks

In addition to this thread, which has 4 pages to it (maybe you just found the last page, with only 3 posts), you can use the search function:

http://www.home-barista.com/forums/search.php

which will find you TEN PAGES of threads mentioning this grinder. It is also extensively discussed in this thread:

http://www.home-barista.com/forum...project-t4126.html

and in this one:

http://www.home-barista.com/forum...r-robur-t4499.html

Dan has not done a formal review of this grinder. Until recently, it was seldom imported into the USA, as there were certain "features" deemed unsuitable such as autogrind and a very large bean hopper making placement below kitchen cabinets difficult. Chris has worked with the Importer to get a modified version produced, which eliminated these design flaws. The new model has only been available for about 2 months, and is available exclusively through Chris Coffee.

Jeff Sawdy and Dave (Canonfodder) both own one of the old models. I own 2 of the old models and one of the new ones. A few weeks ago, Chris told me he had sold approximately 25 of the new Max's up to that point, so we are talking about a product that is relatively new to this market, although the design is old. The design is a slightly downsized version of the old DRM hybrid conical/planar grinder that was sold over many years but no longer exists. That grinder had 68mm planar burrs and the new one has 64mm burrs. The conical burrs on the old DRM were also proportionately larger.

In the threads referenced above, there are also comments from Jim Schulman, who had one of the old Max's for testing over a period of time.

ken

[charlesaf3]

I actually found those threads after posting this. Still would be nice to have some more info, but seems like the grinder for me - the idea is certainly good, and no one seems to be complaining about it.

[jesawdy]

I'm seriously leaning towards buying the max hybrid - is there a review somewhere? I'm having trouble locating one, though did find and enjoy this thread.

Charles,

All the build/use comments for the Cimbali Junior in the Feature Spotlight on Espresso Grinders would apply. The new MAX/Junior Hybrid, is essentially the same shell with a different burr set. There will be a more formal writeup at the conclusion of the Titan Grinder Project in the future.

I know that myself, Ken and now Dave Stephens, like the MAX. Jim Schulman scored it quite highly in the Beat the Robur series, yet he wasn't enamored with it. This is probably because Jim likes to dose the beans in the hopper, grind until empty and repeat with different coffees. If this is your modus operandi, the Cimbali MAX (nor the Junior) are the right grinder for you.

[charlesaf3]

Thanks, if you guys liked it, frankly I doubt I'll be any less than completely pleased - I do not think my expertise is such that I'm capable of making ultrafine distinctions at your collective level.

I stick with one coffee at a time, and dial in that grind, with the usual daily fiddling. Coffee was black cat, but I haven't been as happy with it lately and am drinking Great Barrington gold. I also roast my own on occasion.

My usual pattern is to fill the hopper with a set amount of beans and grind until empty, but I'm sure I can adapt.

[cannonfodder]

I am enjoying my Max and Jr so much so that I sold my Mazzer. Now these are my personal opinions, yours and others will vary. I use a single coffee, usually a half pound, per machine. I do not change coffees every day, or multiple times a day so the hopper design is not an issue for me. If you change coffees a lot, using the same coffee once or twice before changing to another blend, then the Cimbali line may not be for you. The Jr has 64mm burrs, you have to go with a Mazzer E or Super Jolly to get the same size burr set. Both options are substantially more expensive than the Jr.

The Max is more online with the Robur/Kony but in a much more kitchen friendly package. Even the old Max is not that tall, it is only an inch or two taller than the Jr. The conical/flat hybrid burrs give me a much cleaner and defined flavor. My Kony experience has been documented in the Titan Grinder project but I found the shots I got from it to be too bright. The Max is mellower to my taste.

The build on the Max is solid. Most of the grinder is stainless or cast metal. The only plastic in the machine is the grind adjustment ring and doser vanes. I like my grinder.

PS, If you plan on going from press pot to espresso, the micro adjustment which makes adjusting for espresso so nice, makes wide changes a pain so you may want to keep that in mind.

[HB]

Coffee was black cat, but I haven't been as happy with it lately and am drinking Great Barrington gold.

Intelligentsia very recently changed the blend, see Intelligentsia Black Cat- different again. I had switched to Kid O's Organic Espresso blend awhile back and ordered some Black Cat last week after reading the thread. It still has the signature Black Cat profile, but is a tiny bit more fruity and the cedar flavor that had crept into the blend over the summer is gone.

[charlesaf3]

Interesting on black cat - I liked the old one, but for whatever reason I'm just not that happy with the new one. Part, in fairness, is probably due to time to change the burrs on the grinder - hopefully my new burrs will come in soon.

All I drink is espresso, so the weakness of the Cimbali grinder for non-espresso uses is completely unimportant to me. And I don't switch coffees that often, so it seems like I'm pretty much the target customer.

[Marshall]

Others have reported that their conical grinder produced shots are "brighter" than their former planar grinder made shots. I have not had this observation, but I would say that the shots are "rounder," that they have less sharp edges to them. I wish I could explain what I meant by that but it completely escapes me.

I posted the following today on alt.coffee as part of my response to a question by our friend "Moka Java" about how the Max differed from the Mazzer Mini (which I wrote before reading your post, Ken):

"3. 'Smoother' taste to the drink. This is not entirely an advantage and may be a result of my still learning my way around the machine. When the Mazzer was spot on, I was able to taste a variety of distinct flavors at once. They tend to blend together more on the Cimbali. As I say, this may be a temporary phase for me."

The grinds are much fluffier than the Mazzer's and tend to clump more, unless I click-click-click vigorously. I assume this has something to do with the homogenizing of the flavors. I will report back when I have more experience with grind and dose variations.

FWIW, I've had the same effect with two blends: Ecco Caffe's "Ecco Reserve" and Supreme Bean's "Caffe di Norte." BTW emptying the hopper to change beans on this machine is not for the faint-hearted. Thankfully, I normally finish one bag before opening another.

[Marshall]

Three days later, I think I'm hitting my stride with the Max. Moderate updosing is giving me a wide spectrum of flavors. Overfill, two taps on the counter, sweep off and tamp. Pretty much the Heather Perry drill. Comes to a little less than 18 grams in a Faema basket on my Isomac.

[Ken Fox]

Three days later, I think I'm hitting my stride with the Max. Moderate updosing is giving me a wide spectrum of flavors. Overfill, two taps on the counter, sweep off and tamp. Pretty much the Heather Perry drill. Comes to a little less than 18 grams in a Faema basket on my Isomac.

If 18g is moderate updosing, then my dog is a Volkswagen. What's the cutoff for "marked" updosing, 23g?

Have you tried ~14g?

ken

[Marshall]

If 18g is moderate updosing, then my dog is a Volkswagen. What's the cutoff for "marked" updosing, 23g?

Have you tried ~14g?

ken

20-22g. At 14g I got that homogenized flavor you commented on and that the Italians seem to like. I prefer "spikey" to "round."

[Ken Fox]

20-22g. At 14g I got that homogenized flavor you commented on and that the Italians seem to like. I prefer "spikey" to "round."

Homogenized is for milk; I doubt I used that word. "Balanced" is how I would describe it.

ken

[Marshall]

Homogenized is for milk; I doubt I used that word. "Balanced" is how I would describe it.

ken

Hi, Ken. What you actually wrote was

Others have reported that their conical grinder produced shots are "brighter" than their former planar grinder made shots. I have not had this observation, but I would say that the shots are "rounder," that they have less sharp edges to them. I wish I could explain what I meant by that but it completely escapes me.

I read that as a "homogenized" flavor. If I misinterpreted, I apologize. In any event, thanks for your efforts in getting this home-friendly machine built.

[Ken Fox]

I read that as a "homogenized" flavor. If I misinterpreted, I apologize. In any event, thanks for your efforts in getting this home-friendly machine built.

I'm really glad they decided to build the thing. Cimbali appears to be more on the path of accommodating us home enthusiasts, no doubt due to the efforts of TJ and Chris.

ken

[Marshall]

Now I'm in gear with this machine. Dialed down a little finer and, with about an 18g dose, I have as full a spectrum of flavors as I ever had with the Mini, but with little or no inter-shot adjusting. After about four days, a 1/2 point dial down on the grind was all I needed to maintain shot quality. The shots are so predictably good, I traded my bottomless portafilter for my original single spout -- no need to keep monitoring the bottom of the basket.

With the added bonus of its no-waste/no-brushing doser, this grinder is a clear winner.

[cannonfodder]

Nice to see the grinder has found its place on your espresso bar. Like you, I have to make very few changes on my Max once the grind is dialed in. I sold my Mini and would like to replace my Jr with another Max or Jr hybrid one day. Once you go conical, you just cant go back.

[Marshall]

Nice to see the grinder has found its place on your espresso bar. Like you, I have to make very few changes on my Max once the grind is dialed in. I sold my Mini and would like to replace my Jr with another Max or Jr hybrid one day. Once you go conical, you just cant go back.

If the Ghost of Christmas Future had told me five years ago that I would some day have a $795 coffee grinder in my house, I would have begged him to have me committed first. Now, of course, it makes perfect sense.