KitchenAid Pro Line or Breville Conical Burr?

[DannyBoy21]

Hello, I'm a brand new home user, looking to buy my first espresso machine and grinder. I'm looking to spend a little more money on the grinder than the machine, because I would like a grinder that might still prove useful even if I upgrade the espresso machine at a later date. Anyway, my budget for the grinder is under $200.

I'm considering the KitchenAid Pro Line Coffee Mill ($160 at B,B and B with coupon) and the Breville Conical Burr ($80 at B,B and B with coupon). I am leaning toward the KitchenAid because I think it will produce a better grind for espresso (really my only consideration). I also looked at the Capresso Infinity Burr, but it's even cheaper than the Breville, and so I suspect it won't be able to match the KitchenAid in grind quality.

Which would you recommend?

[Randy G.]

Well... quiet on the reply side, no? Let me see if I can up the white noise if nothing else... I would recommend neither.

It is a good thing that you are thinking of spending more on the grinder than the espresso machine, but neither of those grinders is generally recommended for espresso. There are closets and garage shelves all over with an espresso machine and grinder because of disappointment.

Low-end grinders are inconsistent in their grind, produce too wide of a range of particle size, create too much dust which adds to bitterness, and lack the ability to adjust in fine enough increments. Putting it into perspective, the replacement burrs for high-end grinders can cost in the $180 range.

So what to do? You could get whatever you can afford and do the best you can with it. You also may want to check for used or possibly on eBay. Or just start by blowing the budget in a decent grinder and using an economy method to make coffee until you can afford an espresso machine.

in the meantime, check the user reviews on coffeegeek to learn more about the two grinders you are looking at as well as others...

All just IMO.

[HB]

Well... quiet on the reply side, no? Let me see if I can up the white noise if nothing else... I would recommend neither.

Based on what I've read from informed readers, I agree. As for alternatives, see Best inexpensive grinder and similar threads from the FAQs. The Le'Lit PL53 is another price performer that is well suited for espresso.

[cafeIKE]

I had a couple of KA ProLine 100s. Don't waste your time. The burrs are very poor and the design does not discharge consistently enough for espresso.

A friend had a Breville. Did not grind fine enough for espresso.

A Capresso Infinity is a tolerable $90 investment. The Capresso may fetch about $50 on eBay when you save up for a real espresso grinder, say a used Mini, Super Jolly or MC4.

Espresso frustration level is inversely proportional to the quality of the grinder.

DON'T BE PENNY WISE AND POUND FOOLISH

[DannyBoy21]

So, if you had a gun to your head, you would choose the $90 Capresso Infinity over the $200 Kitchenaid Pro Line?

[roadman]

So, if you had a gun to your head, you would choose the $90 Capresso Infinity over the $200 Kitchenaid Pro Line?

I'd add $29 to the $200 you're willing to spend on the Kitchenaid and get the Le'Lit (shipping included).
Jon

[HB]

So, if you had a gun to your head, you would choose the $90 Capresso Infinity over the $200 Kitchenaid Pro Line?

It's not worth dying over; I would choose whatever the person holding the gun wanted me to choose.

As Ian notes above, the KitchenAid grinder has a spotty record among forum participants. Jon proposed modifying the KitchenAid Proline to hold Mazzer Mini burrs, though not everyone agrees it's a good idea (starting on page 2).

Espresso frustration level is inversely proportional to the quality of the grinder.

Heed Ian's advice. I didn't believe it when I first started out. Oldtimers will often say "the espresso machine is an accessory to the grinder" and they're right.

[billm3]

Don't bother with the Kitchen-Aid.

From personal experience, it is very frustrating. I wanted it to work, I like the design, and I was impressed at first. Like the other posters have said, it was way too inconsistent for espresso.

My parents have one that they use for drip and the Kitchen-Aid is barely satisfactory for that. The filter is full of large chunks of beans mixed in mud from all of the dust.

I don't know why the KA's are so bad, they seem like a great design. I would hope that with all of the negative reviews on various coffee sites that KA would have tweaked the design by now.

With your budget, even one of the Baratza grinders (Maestro, Maestro Plus, Virtuoso) would be a better choice than the KA. I use the Maestro as a decaf/backup grinder now. Got a Mazzer Mini from ebay for regular espresso duty.

[cannonfodder]

So, if you had a gun to your head, you would choose the $90 Capresso Infinity over the $200 Kitchenaid Pro Line?

I would grab the gun and shoot myself if those were my only two options. The KA would work good for drip or press pot. You could go that route and save a little more coin and get something along the lines of the MACAP/Mazzer/Cimbali route for your espresso machine, as well as the espresso machine at a future date.

Been there done that, there is no substitute for a good grinder. I wasted a good amount of money to realize that the wise old crows were right.

[Randy G.]

So, if you had a gun to your head, you would choose the $90 Capresso Infinity over the $200 Kitchenaid Pro Line?

Danny... Just because a company says a grinder will grind fine enough for espresso does not mean it will grind well enough for espresso. Espresso is the most demanding extraction method for making coffee and it puts the greatest demands on the equipment to get a drinkable beverage. We have a Krups pump machine purchased at a thrift store for (Chapter 80 on my website). Although not terribly consistent, I was able to make drinkable espresso with it paired with a good grinder— when I paired it with a $300 grinder (Rancilio Rocky), or the $200 Baratza Virtuoso.

We have a Cuisinart coffee burr mill that sells for $35-50 and it is unsuitable for espresso... we use it for flax seed. See Chapter 79 on my website for a review of that grinder.

Please read through my website. I do not sell anything and there are not any banner ads. If you don't learn anything from the content you get your admission fee back.

Frugality when purchasing espresso equipment is the road to disappointment.

[cafeIKE]

So, if you had a gun to your head, you would choose the $90 Capresso Infinity over the $200 Kitchenaid Pro Line?

DoReMi bears no relationship to the KA grind quality. The KA is a stylist's, not an engineer's, creation.
I tried to make two ProLines work because I really liked the style.

- stepless
- eliminate burr wobble
- grind* burr cutting faces flat
- grind* burr mounting surface parallel to cutting surface

It's hopeless.
When eBay'd, the ad read NOT suitable for espresso

If the grinder budget is $200 and the KA ProLine was free, I'd choose the Le'Lit.

*aerospace machine shop.

[zin1953]

So, if you had a gun to your head, you would choose the $90 Capresso Infinity over the $200 Kitchenaid Pro Line?

What kind of flowers do you want us to send to the funeral?

The whole point, Danny, is to get a grinder that will do the task you want it to, and not only to merely do it but to exceed your expectations and do it for a significant time . . . until "upgrade-itis" strikes. Thus, you were thinking along the right lines when you wrote

I'm looking to spend a little more money on the grinder than the machine, because I would like a grinder that might still prove useful even if I upgrade the espresso machine at a later date.

So get a grinder that does the job, does it well, and will work with an even better machine. That eliminates BOTH the KA and the Breville.

At a minimum you should get the Le'Lit PL53. OK, so it's $229. But there is no sales tax (think about that one, Danny), and there is free shipping!

Other inexpensive grinders that will certainly do the job include the Gaggia MDF (but that's over your budget at $299), the Ascaso/Innova I1 (but that's $279), the Nuova Simonelli MCF (but that's $331.20), or the Nuova Simonelli MCI (but that's $375) . . . you get the point? Search the cushions of your couch, and the pockets of those dress pants you haven't worn in a while -- get the Le'Lit! You won't regret it, and it will the best $29 over budget you ever spent!

Cheers,
Jason

[DannyBoy21]

Hmmm...well, thank you all for your advice. The Le' Lit is a grinder I hadn't heard of. At the risk of opening myself up for more tomatoes, do all of your same criticisms apply to the KA when the machine is recalibrated to a 250 micron finest grind and the stepless mod is added? These are things that can be done in less than 10 min., and I've seen a lot of praise for the machine with these upgrades. And I can get it for $160 at Bed Bath and Beyond (plus the California sales tax, of course). It's tempting!

[HB]

These are things that can be done in less than 10 min., and I've seen a lot of praise for the machine with these upgrades.

Would you provide links to these modification instructions and praise from happy owners? Thanks.

[DannyBoy21]

Well this link http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machines/240890#240890 talks about the mod to make it stepless - just takes some teflon tape.

Here's a favorable first-look from Coffeegeek where they mention the calibration (talked about in the manual, apparently) to make the machine grind finer or coarser depending on your preferences. http://www.coffeegeek.com/proreviews/firstlook/kitchenaidprolinegrinder/details. Although some people say that the grinder can choke their machines out of the box, so the finer adjustment might not even be necessary.

Amazon reviews are across-the-board enthusiastic: http://www.amazon.com/KitchenAid-...lic/dp/B00030IEJG/

And, although I am picking and choosing among many coffeegeek reviews, here's one: http://www.coffeegeek.com/reviews/grinders/kitchenaidprolinegrinder/JoeZone. Here's the full list of coffeegeek reviews http://www.coffeegeek.com/reviews/grinders/kitchenaidprolinegrinder. Admittedly, a lot of reviews say that the grinder is not acceptable for espresso, but honestly, I find those reviews in every single grinder under $500. The espresso community is certainly diverse and vociferous (and more power to them!), so it seems hard to please everybody.

[cafeIKE]

Hmmm...well, thank you all for your advice. The Le' Lit is a grinder I hadn't heard of. At the risk of opening myself up for more tomatoes, do all of your same criticisms apply to the KA when the machine is recalibrated to a 250 micron finest grind and the stepless mod is added? These are things that can be done in less than 10 min., and I've seen a lot of praise for the machine with these upgrades. And I can get it for $160 at Bed Bath and Beyond (plus the California sales tax, of course). It's tempting!

I did WAY more than the 10 minute fixes. I tried to engineer a solution. It cannot be easily done. At one point I considered machining new burr carriers to hold better burrs and reworking the front mount to eliminate burr wobble, but decided I could live with Macap / Mazzer ugly, hence the MC4.

Bill nailed it with "large chunks of beans mixed in mud from all of the dust." You will be as successful making espresso with a mortar and pestle as with the KA. I could have kept it for drip or decaf, but it's NOT UP TO THE TASK.

If you tot up the responders' kit, it's probably somewhere north of $40,000. Most of us are pretty savvy. NO ONE lists a KA. IF the KA were the hot ticket, we'd be all over it in a NY minute.

Most online reviews are WORTHLESS. n00b with ZERO knowledge buys new gear... Yeah, right.

[RapidCoffee]

I've been using a KAP grinder for press pot coffee at the office, and I think it does a respectable job. It's attractive, fast, quiet, and has some innovative design features. However, I may have gotten lucky. Reviews of this grinder are all over the map, ranging from Mark Prince's early raves to Ian's pans, so quality control issues are a good bet. As a result, I would not recommend it for espresso, even with some of the 10 minute mods (stepless grind, teflon tape on threads, remove plastic plate so you can dose right into basket). It's a shame, really, because there's a lot to like about the grinder (including the price).

[HB]

Admittedly, a lot of reviews say that the grinder is not acceptable for espresso, but honestly, I find those reviews in every single grinder under $500. The espresso community is certainly diverse and vociferous (and more power to them!), so it seems hard to please everybody.

I agree that espresso aficionados are a demanding bunch, but it appears the KitchenAid grinder and espresso machine suffer from more than their fair share of mixed reviews. Until the brand develops a longer online track record of satisfied customers with known histories, I personally would look elsewhere.

[hbuchtel]

FWIW, I've been using a grinder that is almost identical to the KA for about three years, and can confirm that you can make good espresso with it.

My impression is that most people who trash the KA grinder for not being able to make espresso are blaming the grinder for their own shortcomings.

My shots blond earlier earlier then those in the better videos I've seen around here, but when my distribution and grind/dose are right it tastes good.

That being said, I don't disagree with the recommendations above of different grinders- by all accounts the Le'lit is a great grinder for only a little more. If you do get the KA, I think the stepless is absolutely necessary, but I didn't notice any difference after doing the teflon tape mod (about 4 months ago). I am looking forward to upgrading my grinder to see what (if anything) I've been missing

Regards, Henry

[HB]

My impression is that most people who trash the KA grinder for not being able to make espresso are blaming the grinder for their own shortcomings.

I haven't followed public reports of the KitchenAid's performance closely enough to judge, but your comment strikes me as overly broad and mildly inflammatory. Rather than wait for an argument to ensue, I respectfully ask that contributors to this thread refer to the Guidelines for productive online discussion before posting. Anyone having questions or comments about the site's guidelines are welcome to contact me offline. Thanks.