Is eBay the Garden of Eden for Equipment?

[CoffeeBeau]

As I get into this Espresso hobby, I am in desperate need to upgrade from my Krups $79 cheepy to a more substantial machine. I make cappas, lattes and straight shots from time to time. I own a Rocky so the grinder is no an issue at this point.

Question for you HB folks, Is E bay the garden of eden? Too good to be true, used equipment with no guarantee of performance, or a back office for repairs and tech support. Should I hold out, save up and buy an HX machine from one of HB's fine sponsors, or should I try my luck and bid on an Olympia, Isomac or other high end name? Any thoughts, or warnings?

Thanks in advance.

Bob

[HB]

Generally speaking, I'm unimpressed by the prices on eBay. Often I'll see espresso equipment sell for more than it's worth - sometimes used equipment sells for nearly the retail cost (!?!). Of course there are occasional bargains, e.g., because the seller has a typo in their announcement, or it's an estate seller who's mislabeled it (e.g., once I saw an Olympia Cremina wrongly identified as a La Pavoni). Shipping issues run the gamit too. Packaging is critical when buying heavy equipment. Word to the wise: Offer to pay for professional packaging. Otherwise you risk a 70+ pound machine being tossed in a cardboard box with a handful of loose foam peanuts. Some of the pictures I've seen posted of "delivered" boxes are shocking (broken sides, taped over splits, loose packaging spilling out).

If you're willing to make repairs and don't mind some of the risk in buying used equipment from strangers, eBay is one of the best games in town. CoffeeGeek's Buy, Sell, and Trade would be my first stop. Many of the sellers there have some history with the site. You can also call HB sponsors and ask about returns, which I would expect to be discounted 10-20% depending on the condition. This includes HB's evaluation equipment like the Quickmill Vetrano.

[CoffeeBeau]

Thanks Dan, I thought those used prices were a bit high. But as they say, it is worth what the market will bear.

Also great site.

Bob

[HB]

But as they say, it is worth what the market will bear.

They also say "there's a sucker born every minute."

[wmfamily]

Ebay can be a good source as long as you know what you are getting into (as stated previously). I bought my machine through Ebay and was satisfied with deal but I understood that I could be getting a basket case and was not worried about having to fix it.

If you are an experienced Ebay'er you know the tricks of the snipers and not getting caught up in the heat of the auction. I've seen several machines and grinders that went for almost new price even though they were several years old and is was obvious they were not well maintained.

So "buyer beware" and have fun with it.

John

[Dr Jim]

Second that thought - I've had stupidly good luck buying machines on my personal 'hit list' from Ebay - but would NOT recommend that a bright, fresh, coffee Newbie cast themselves before that particular collection of sharks without lots of study and preparation.

Ebay is an excellent way to continue your espresso education at no cost - set up a search that pulls in lots of different machines from different places (something like 'espresso machine' - krups -saeco -delonghi -starbucks' filters out many of the gunge listings) and spend some time every day tracking prices and reading descriptions - but firmly resist the temptation to strike the 'Bid' button...

Pretty soon you'll begin to see patterns emerge - which machines bring on bidding frenzies, which machines are dogs on the market, all of which may seem mysterious and nonsensical at first, but if you haunt here and the CG site, you'll soon begin to connect the dots between what the hard-core coffee folks believe and those machines which command a premium price.

Now, armed with your new-found smarts, begin aggressively cruising some of the alternate sale sources - the CG ad section is useful, but you must move quickly and be prepared to deal with someone far away. The local Craigs List has been very productive for me - I bought my 1st Rossi RR-45 for $55 which included new Burrs, a twin-group 58mm lever machine for a haul-away price, and sold my NS Oscar machine to a local couple for a price they could afford. Which is the big plus to Criags List - it's oriented to local sales, so you can realistically drive to see the device you're interested in and evaluate it before plunking money down.

But long before you start cruising the web looking for deals - do your homework and decide what sort of machine you really need and how much you're willing to budget to seize control of your coffee future.

If your usage is primarily several 'milk-drinks' in the morning and a couple of shots later in the day, and you intend to buy pre-roasted beans, then a competent single-boiler like the Silvia, the Elaine, or Zaffiro may be the ticket. OTOH, there are several 'neglected' HX machines which seem somewhat under-valued to me - I've seen NS Oscar's selling for less than $300, the Isomac 'Relax' model sells for hundreds less than its E61 brothers, and I believe that there's a vendor currently selling Bezzera HX machines for around $700 new.

Any of these machines would be a major step up from a small Krups in stability, and capacity - so unless you go pretty nuts, whatever you buy will be an improvement.

Cheers

Jim

[CoffeeBeau]

Thanks guys, some good insight.

Bob

[Grant]

I don't have much experience with the big items on e-bay, but over on CoffeeGeek someone had posted a refurb machine for sale and was asking $1200 or so. While some people posted it was a pretty good deal, it didn't sell.

He posted it up on e-bay and it sold for almost $1900. If I recall, someone posted afterwards saying he got almost as much as a new one of the same model.

Grant

[CoffeeBeau]

That is a great point. Last night I saw a Kitchen Aid proline "slightly used" go for $550 plus shipping $25. They retail for about $850 new with warranty, shipping included. Why would some one pay that close to retail?

Thanks for your input.

Bob

[tjkoko]

I've gotten a few items from ebay only to sell them for, literally, 10 times the price I've paid. But, KNOW YOUR MARKET AND THE ITEM'S WORTH. I'm not shouting at you personally; instead, I'm shouting at the whole world.