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Invitation only coffees - rmiguelcoffee.com - Page 4

Discuss flavors, brew temperatures, blending, and cupping notes.

Link to "Invitation only coffees - rmiguelcoffee.com"by CoffeeOwl on Mon Dec 24, 2007 8:57 pm

On the analogies to wine or tea, I was thinking in terms of appreciation of exceptional taste quality. Looks like Miguels approach may be a little mistaken, specially if he doesn't help coffee farmers. Profit distribution seems to be better (read:more just) in other industries.

Ken Fox wrote:The coffee-wine analogy fails on many levels. Among them is that wine is sold as a finished product, in a sealed container, which if treated with minimal respect will last decades, assuming this is the sort of wine worth buying and that will age.(...)
Coffee is sold either as a green, unroasted, unfinished product, or as a roasted, unfinished product. Whether or not you have to roast it, you still need to grind it and extract a beverage out of it before it is to be consumed. During this preparation phase, there is considerable risk of ending up with a substandard result from what was a first rate but unfinished product.(...)
Expensive wines are almost always "ageworthy," and if well chosen, will increase in value over the aging period. Coffee is very perishable, whether in the green or roasted state.



Matthew Brinski wrote:Excellent coffee should possess the ability of being presented to the consumer with its special aspects highlighted, all while standing on its own two feet.


It is all very true.
As for tea, it is also up to the consumer to extract the beverage out of it and it needs a lot of skill (I'm a tea lover too).
If you don't mind a question, how long do the green beans last? Tea leaves can be preserved at their best even over two years quite easily.
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Link to "Invitation only coffees - rmiguelcoffee.com"by HB on Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:10 pm

cai42 wrote:CoffeeCuppers has given ratings in the 89-91 to numerous coffees but their prices were not in the $160 to $260/lb range. Is a coffee rated between 92 to 96 deserve a five to twenty times price increase?

Good point. How much does it cost per cup for the two extremes? At the risk of stretching the coffee/wine analogy too far, is the exceptional coffee Miguel proposes more costly per serving than an exceptional wine? (sorry if this question is naive; when it comes to wine, I am a newbie).
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Link to "Invitation only coffees - rmiguelcoffee.com"by Matthew Brinski on Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:51 pm

CoffeeOwl wrote: Looks like Miguels approach may be a little mistaken, specially if he doesn't help coffee farmers. Profit distribution seems to be better (read:more just) in other industries.



I wouldn't jump to conclusions that Miguel is not adequately compensating the farmers. There have been a few of these statements thus far, and although I question the approach, I haven't heard or seen evidence of such. Relationships with outstanding coffee farms aren't built on crappy compensation, nor does it seem consistent with quality driven roasters such as RMiguel / Paradise.



CoffeeOwl wrote: If you don't mind a question, how long do the green beans last? Tea leaves can be preserved at their best even over two years quite easily.


This is something that is currently being evaluated through experimentation with repackaging and deep freezing. I'm sure Ken Fox and Jim Schulman can weigh in, but I would guess the person to be most knowledgeable about this is George Howell.
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Link to "Invitation only coffees - rmiguelcoffee.com"by cannonfodder on Mon Dec 24, 2007 10:38 pm

Matthew Brinski wrote:This is something that is currently being evaluated through experimentation with repackaging and deep freezing. I'm sure Ken Fox and Jim Schulman can weigh in, but I would guess the person to be most knowledgeable about this is George Howell.


I have greens that I have vacuum packed in heavy bags and frozen at -20F for almost 2 years. In fact, I am roasting a Yemen and Java estate that I purchased in bulk on 6-06. There has been little degradation in the bean if any at all. I am roasting up 6 pounds of mocha java for relatives right now, which takes forever when you using a HotTop.
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Link to "Invitation only coffees - rmiguelcoffee.com"by Ken Fox on Mon Dec 24, 2007 10:45 pm

Matthew Brinski wrote:This is something that is currently being evaluated through experimentation with repackaging and deep freezing. I'm sure Ken Fox and Jim Schulman can weigh in, but I would guess the person to be most knowledgeable about this is George Howell.


I have never frozen a green bean sample and have no personal experience with this. I am inclined to doubt that Jim has tried this, either, as I doubt he has either the sort of very cold freezer that might be required, nor the space in any freezer with which to test this.

Speaking only for myself, I've gotten pretty good longevity out of simply storing green beans in my very cool (50-55F, year round) and dry underground basement. With beans I really like, I've found they can "last" for a year in this setting. I am still happily roasting my remaining stash of Yirgacheffe Adado Coop which must have been released 9 or 10 months ago, with excellent results. Similarly, I used last year's version of MAO Harrar Horse for around a year after I first got it, and never failed to get better results from it than I have gotten from the current crop (also good, but less so), from day 1.

The famous and heralded Biloya I bought from the same harvest, however, failed to satisfy even a month after I got it, so there is more to this "green bean aging thing" than meets the eye.

I have no experience with the ultra-clean greens that George Howell advocates, and suspect that if one bought into his approach, green beans would not have a very long shelf life unless frozen, but that is just a guess.

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Link to "Invitation only coffees - rmiguelcoffee.com"by prettydeceextrap on Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:29 pm

Marshall wrote:I almost pulled the trigger on the Aurora tonight, but stopped cold at the shipping. I had my choice of $9.17 for UPS Ground (for 4 oz!), which would take around a week from Minnesota to L.A., or $20.56 for 2-day air. I just couldn't bring myself to pay $70.56 for a timely delivery of 4 oz. of coffee. So I joined Ecco Caffe's Experimental Espresso Club, instead.


Sorry to regress a page of comments ... but I thought this point was worth re-visiting. I ran into the exact same thing with the shipping. Why in the world are these shipping costs so ridiculous? Paradise's rates were much more agreeable. I received 28 oz of coffee for $5.15 from Paradise in November ... and it arrived in 2 days. I was more than satisfied with that. Why in the world does it cost me $8.77 for 4 oz from R. Miguel, with a longer delivery time? What gives?

I had resolved my problems with the ridiculous price for the coffee ... but this shipping actually annoys me to the point that I won't do it, even though it is only a couple more bucks. I hope someone at R. Miguel or Paradise reads some of this, because it sounds like they lost at least two customers just because of the shipping (perhaps the site would benefit from a "contact me" link ... or maybe I am just too steaming mad at the shipping to see it).

And for what it's worth, I think you had the right idea, Marshall. Ecco's experiment looks much more palatable overall.
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Link to "Invitation only coffees - rmiguelcoffee.com"by Abe Carmeli on Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:42 pm

prettydeceextrap wrote:Sorry to regress a page of comments ... but I thought this point was worth re-visiting. I ran into the exact same thing with the shipping. Why in the world are these shipping costs so ridiculous? Paradise's rates were much more agreeable. I received 28 oz of coffee for $5.15 from Paradise in November ... and it arrived in 2 days. I was more than satisfied with that. Why in the world does it cost me $8.77 for 4 oz from R. Miguel, with a longer delivery time? What gives?


The problem was that UPS is integrated into the checkout services he uses, and he did not have the time before the holiday to look into a USPS alternative. Hopefully, we will see the $4.50 shipping soon.
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Link to "Invitation only coffees - rmiguelcoffee.com"by farmroast on Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:16 am

The roof needed to be raised on coffee prices from where it was a few years ago for many reasons. I 've been involved with the marketing of specialty farm products for over forty years and have found that drastic increases can slow the overall progress of a specialty commodity. It is not about the people that can afford the highest prices but more about getting the product to those who can really appreciate the product and will promote and educate others about it. Patience is the companion of wisdom.
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Link to "Invitation only coffees - rmiguelcoffee.com"by HB on Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:08 pm

HB wrote:Below is a bit more detail:

AURORA 2007
Aurora 2007 is a washed-process coffee bean of the gesha varietal lovingly harvested by the Mama Cata Farm in Boquete Panama.

"This coffee is the perfect expression of this varietal, perhaps the most unearthly, uncoffee-like coffee imaginable. Pristinely clear and sweet, a cornucopia of fruit flavors can be found in this coffee: Orange, Peach, Apricot, Passion Fruit and unbelievably, Strawberry. Absolute coffee perfection!"

If someone is looking for Christmas gift ideas for me, this works. :D

You never know who is reading your posts. In this case, an admirer who wishes to remain anonymous read my post above and sent a four ounce gift of Aurora to me. It arrived via USPS in two days and today is the second morning I've enjoyed it using a French press.

I don't have the cupping experience or vocabulary of Jim/Bob, but I'll add a few observations. The lasting impression after sampling it now four times is an exceptionally clean and balanced cup. Many fruit flavors as others have noted, though no one dominates. If there were a hybrid plant of coffee and tea, I imagine that this would be how it would taste. The coffee's fragrance is subtle and sweet, not the "floral explosion" of the Ethiopia Yrgacheffe Biloya Natural Jim/Bob reviewed earlier this year. They were not as impressed as Ken Davids by the Biloya (scoring it 91 versus his highest score to-date, a 97). We cupped the Biloya roasted by Paradise Roasters and PT's Coffee and admired its sweet syrup cantaloupe flavors and booming florals. Comparing the two coffees by musical analogy, the Biloya is a lovely French horn melody and Aurora adds the woodwinds section (huh, where did that come from? I don't know, it just popped into my head :?).

My brew parameters basically follow Sweet Maria's instructions: 8 ounces water, 15 grams coffee, grind setting slightly finer than my "usual" setting for French press, water 30 seconds off the boil, 3.5 minutes steep with agitation at one minute.

PS: Ian Callahan offers his thoughts in the thread R Miguel - Aurora on CoffeeGeek.
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Link to "Invitation only coffees - rmiguelcoffee.com"by cai42 on Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:54 pm

Greetings,

Dan, isn't 15 grams per 240 ml a little on the "rich" side?

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Link to "Invitation only coffees - rmiguelcoffee.com"by HB on Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:58 pm

I haven't calculated the brewing ratio, but it works for me. Tom's instructions cited above say "Put one coffee measure (7.25 grams by weight is the standard) per 4 to 5 oz. water, into the beaker." Some coffee always gets lost in the grinder too.
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Link to "Invitation only coffees - rmiguelcoffee.com"by King Seven on Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:17 pm

cai42 wrote:Greetings,

Dan, isn't 15 grams per 240 ml a little on the "rich" side?

Cliff Isackson


I think 62.5g/l is a fairly standard ratio for many international Gold Cup standards, though I do gather the SCAA Gold Cup is a little weaker than the European or specifically Norwegian one.
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Link to "Invitation only coffees - rmiguelcoffee.com"by CoffeeOwl on Sun Jan 06, 2008 5:11 pm

HB wrote:If there were a hybrid plant of coffee and tea, I imagine that this would be how it would taste.

MMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....


HB wrote:You never know who is reading your posts.



I want some! :D
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