www.paradiseroasters.com: passion for coffees of distinction and quality

Invitation only coffees - rmiguelcoffee.com - Page 2

Discuss flavors, brew temperatures, blending, and cupping notes.

Link to "Invitation only coffees - rmiguelcoffee.com"by Jasonian on Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:30 am

Abe Carmeli wrote:I ordered 4 oz of Nectar. I hope Zeus does not strike me dead for stealing his brew, but if it is perfection, as Miguel describes it, it may be worth the risk.

Excellent.

Thanks for taking the leap. 8)

It doesn't bother me to see coffee this expensive if the quality is there.

The thing that bothers me, as others have mentioned, is the lack of information to accompany the price tag.

I've gotten more info from coffee that was given to me for free, including brew parameters, tasting notes, and the "recipe"(read: blend contents and percentages).
User avatar
Jasonian
 
Posts: 272
Joined: Jan 19, 2006
Location: Lubbock, TX

Link to "Invitation only coffees - rmiguelcoffee.com"by jffhn on Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:34 am

I'm sure these are fine coffees, but frankly I'm put off by the price and invitation only format. A gift box? :roll:
jffhn
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Apr 25, 2006
Location: Greater NYC
www.seattlecoffeegear.com: let us help you find the right gear
www.seattlecoffeegear.com: let us help you find the right gear

Link to "Invitation only coffees - rmiguelcoffee.com"by HB on Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:58 am

Below is a bit more detail:

AURORA 2007
Aurora 2007 is a washed-process coffee bean of the gesha varietal lovingly harvested by the Mama Cata Farm in Boquete Panama.

"This coffee is the perfect expression of this varietal, perhaps the most unearthly, uncoffee-like coffee imaginable. Pristinely clear and sweet, a cornucopia of fruit flavors can be found in this coffee: Orange, Peach, Apricot, Passion Fruit and unbelievably, Strawberry. Absolute coffee perfection!"

NECTAR 2007
"Nectar is in the style of the great naturals from Ethiopia like the Biloya and Balekara coffees Paradise Roasters has offered in the past. Produced under the watchful eye and consultation of Graciano Cruz of the Los Lajones farm in Boquete, Nectar compared to the Aurora is more exotic and full-bodied. The aroma is an intense mix of orange peach and berries. Nectar is the finest example of a natural process coffee I have seen from anywhere in the world."

If someone is looking for Christmas gift ideas for me, this works. :D
Dan Kehn
User avatar
HB
 
Posts: 7212
Joined: Apr 29, 2005
Location: Cary, NC

Link to "Invitation only coffees - rmiguelcoffee.com"by Abe Carmeli on Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:26 am

Jim and Bob have just published their review of both offerings in Coffee Cuppers.com
Abe Carmeli
Abe Carmeli
 
Posts: 761
Joined: May 08, 2005
Location: New York, NY

Link to "Invitation only coffees - rmiguelcoffee.com"by jesawdy on Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:39 am

Abe Carmeli wrote:Jim and Bob have just published their review of both offerings in Coffee Cuppers.com

Jim and Bob's scoring history is bit stingier than other cuppers ( :roll: ), and yet they gave Aurora a 96.0 and Nectar a 93.7, some of the highest scores they have given (1st and 3rd by the looks of it). You can see their scoring history here.
Jeff Sawdy
User avatar
jesawdy
 
Posts: 1595
Joined: May 12, 2006
Location: Black Mtn, NC

Link to "Invitation only coffees - rmiguelcoffee.com"by Jasonian on Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:03 pm

I must admit to being a little put-off by Strawberry being listed as a flavor descriptor in a coffee this "perfect".
User avatar
Jasonian
 
Posts: 272
Joined: Jan 19, 2006
Location: Lubbock, TX

Link to "Invitation only coffees - rmiguelcoffee.com"by BobY on Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:31 pm

Jasonian wrote:I must admit to being a little put-off by Strawberry being listed as a flavor descriptor in a coffee this "perfect".


I didn't pick up any strawberry in either of these coffees but there was so much going on that it might have been in there somewhere. As I've mentioned in another forum, I was uneasy about my intro to the reviews and about the review itself, fearing that it would be taken as an advert for Miguel. Jim and I do our best to be impartial and independent. But after cupping it twice, both times blind, against different coffees in each cupping, I couldn't argue with the score or the quality. Without checking with each other at first, we each, separately, gave the Aurora the highest score we've ever given a coffee.

It may not be perfect (we didn't use that word anywhere in our reviews) but it is certainly the best coffee we've reviewed so far.
BobY
 
Posts: 38
Joined: May 05, 2005
Location: Underhill, Vermont

Link to "Invitation only coffees - rmiguelcoffee.com"by prettydeceextrap on Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:16 pm

Well color me intrigued.

Still can't afford it, but I am hoping that I continue to get invitations in the future, when perhaps the billfold will dilate as much as my eyes.
User avatar
prettydeceextrap
 
Posts: 19
Joined: May 12, 2007
Location: Omaha, NE

Link to "Invitation only coffees - rmiguelcoffee.com"by Niko on Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:16 pm

HB wrote:If someone is looking for Christmas gift ideas for me, this works. :D

Should I send you 2 pounds of Nectar? :D
BTW, last year I had an amazing Panama from Los Lajones...orange was definitely the dominating flavor in that cup.
User avatar
Niko
 
Posts: 279
Joined: Feb 07, 2007
Location: S.F. Bay Area/Sacramento, CA

Link to "Invitation only coffees - rmiguelcoffee.com"by RegulatorJohnson on Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:48 pm

im sure the coffee is great. but i smile when i look at this thread because he looks like DR 90210.

:D

jon
jon stovall
bevalo.com
thebeaningoflife.com
User avatar
RegulatorJohnson
 
Posts: 360
Joined: May 08, 2006
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Link to "Invitation only coffees - rmiguelcoffee.com"by HB on Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:42 pm

Niko wrote:Should I send you 2 pounds of Nectar?

That would make nice "Wish List Gift," but really you're too generous. A pound is more than enough for me with leftovers for my local coffee buddies. :wink:
Dan Kehn
User avatar
HB
 
Posts: 7212
Joined: Apr 29, 2005
Location: Cary, NC

Link to "Invitation only coffees - rmiguelcoffee.com"by PeterG on Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:19 am

Sounds like great coffee.

What's the matter with strawberries?

Peter G
counter culture coffee
PeterG
 
Posts: 39
Joined: May 10, 2005
Location: Durham, NC

Link to "Invitation only coffees - rmiguelcoffee.com"by Jasonian on Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:26 am

PeterG wrote:Sounds like great coffee.

What's the matter with strawberries?

Peter G

Not a thing. I love strawberries.

I'm just not a big fan of fermentation flavors in the cup.
Or maybe I have it wrong. I don't think "strawberry" is alone enough of a description. Natural? Artificial? Is it as tart as a natural strawberry? Wouldn't that imply an underdeveloped roast?

Maybe I should retract my statement. The only time I've ever really tasted "strawberry" was in a fermentation defect. I wish I remembered what the cup was.
User avatar
Jasonian
 
Posts: 272
Joined: Jan 19, 2006
Location: Lubbock, TX

Link to "Invitation only coffees - rmiguelcoffee.com"by Jasonian on Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:28 am

BobY wrote:I didn't pick up any strawberry in either of these coffees but there was so much going on that it might have been in there somewhere. As I've mentioned in another forum, I was uneasy about my intro to the reviews and about the review itself, fearing that it would be taken as an advert for Miguel. Jim and I do our best to be impartial and independent. But after cupping it twice, both times blind, against different coffees in each cupping, I couldn't argue with the score or the quality. Without checking with each other at first, we each, separately, gave the Aurora the highest score we've ever given a coffee.

It may not be perfect (we didn't use that word anywhere in our reviews) but it is certainly the best coffee we've reviewed so far.

haven't I seen a 97 before?
User avatar
Jasonian
 
Posts: 272
Joined: Jan 19, 2006
Location: Lubbock, TX

Link to "Invitation only coffees - rmiguelcoffee.com"by HB on Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:46 am

Jasonian wrote:haven't I seen a 97 before?

I assume you are thinking of Ken David's CoffeeReview, where there's a goodly number of 95 and above coffees (e.g., Esmeralda Especial at 97). Scanning CoffeeCupper's list of reviews, I see none higher than Aurora's 96, including the Esmeralda Especial.
Dan Kehn
User avatar
HB
 
Posts: 7212
Joined: Apr 29, 2005
Location: Cary, NC
www.vanelis.com: top-notch espresso equipment and customer support
www.vanelis.com: top-notch espresso equipment and customer support

Link to "Invitation only coffees - rmiguelcoffee.com"by Jasonian on Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:08 pm

HB wrote:I assume you are thinking of Ken David's CoffeeReview, where there's a goodly number of 95 and above coffees (e.g., Esmeralda Especial at 97). Scanning CoffeeCupper's list of reviews, I see none higher than Aurora's 96, including the Esmeralda Especial.

Oh, you're right. My mistake. It was at CR where I saw it, and not CC.
User avatar
Jasonian
 
Posts: 272
Joined: Jan 19, 2006
Location: Lubbock, TX

Use for espresso

Link to "Invitation only coffees - rmiguelcoffee.com"by Vidio on Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:47 pm

I just received both the Nectar and Aurora coffees. I go the 4 ounce roasted versions as I do not roast myself. They come beautifully packaged in little black tins with a hand labelled tag in gold pen that lists your name and roast date the fact that this was roasted especially for you. The aroma is divine.

I do not know a tremendous amount about coffee or roasting I just enjoy the end product. I am an amateur in the best sense of the word - someone who does something for the love of it. Also, being Italian I only drink espresso. I just can't bring myself to drink the brew coffee. Anyway I had not read the reviews referred to here prior to buying these coffees and wasn't sure if they were meant to be used for espresso. But in my arrogance I guess I just assumed that any fine coffee would naturally be used for espresso.

So I opened the Nectar to try it out. It is roasted fairly light for espresso but I think OK for that use. Kind of like the Northern Italian Illy medium roast color. I ground a bit finer than I normally do. It was tough guessing on such expensive coffee and not wanting to waste any. But it turned out about right. I did not overdose greatly (who would want to at these prices!) but did use a fairly nice 15 -16 grams for a double. Eyeing the bottomless portafilter the pull was not perfect but overall the cup and crema looked good. And the taste... the taste was sublime. Now again, I am no professional coffee taster just a fan of great coffee and this was singularly distinctive. The reviewers are much better at words than I but I will say that they do not exaggerate in the least.

I have since had a second cup and the pull was less than perfect visually but the taste was still there. It seems to be tricky to work with as espresso but doable. I have not tried the Aurora yet but after reading the review referred to in this thread I am a bit concerned about its use as espresso. As mentioned there is very little info or guidance on the website. By the way my invoice number was 15 so I wonder if I am only the 15th customer to purchase!

Anyway I am writing here to see if there is anyone with more knowledge than I that could recommend any tips for using these coffees as espresso.

As to the question as to whether they are worth the price. Well that is so subjective. Can any coffee be worth what will likely turn out to be almost $10 per espresso? For me - yes. What I've tasted so far is distinctive enough that I don't regret the purchase in the least. Would it become my regular coffee? Of course not but I would absolutely purchase again for a special treat, particularly if I get the espresso recipe down.

Any helpful advice greatly appreciated,
Mario
Vidio
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Dec 22, 2007
Location: Bethlehem, PA

Link to "Invitation only coffees - rmiguelcoffee.com"by pauljolly65 on Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:53 am

This is over the top snobbery, IMHO. It reeks of elitism...but I suppose that if there are folks out there willing to pony up an EXTRA $160-$260 A POUND over and above the finest roasted beans currently available, then let 'em pay.

Wait a minute.

How can a roaster keep a straight face while charging two or three Benjis a pound? I don't give a damn about a stinkin' autographed box to 'enjoy' while I sip away my daughters' college funds. Then again, I wasn't invited, so I ain't payin'! Heck, if R. Miguel is so great for specialty coffee (and what would be most telling on that score IMO is that he's gotten more farmers into doing their thing well & getting well-compensated for it) then may the Bentley crowd lay golden eggs at his feet. If a good piece of it winds up back with the farmers, then let it flow.

On the subject of "coffee perfection" ("coffee perfection"? Man, who writes this arrogant schlock?) --anyhow, on that subject, I've tried several of the beans considered to be the acme of complexity or balance or just plain intensity over the years (anybody remember St. Helena from 4-5 years ago? Or El Salvador Finca San Francisco from 2004? Or that blueberry-madhouse Harar Lot 30 from the same year?). I can't imagine coffees getting $200 better than those.

I think I make a darn good espresso at home with my home roast, and when I really want to splurge on excellent coffee I get in the car, pick up my Dad, and drive to SF for some Blue Bottle at the source...just to remind myself of how good it can get. You don't need to throw money into the wind for good coffee, folks, and if paying out the nose is what you want, why not order a pound of your favorite beans and send a check for $30 to CoffeeKids?

Paul
pauljolly65
 
Posts: 88
Joined: Jan 07, 2007
Location: Santa Rosa, CA

Link to "Invitation only coffees - rmiguelcoffee.com"by Abe Carmeli on Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:56 am

pauljolly65 wrote:This is over the top snobbery, IMHO. It reeks of elitism...but I suppose that if there are folks out there willing to pony up an EXTRA $160-$260 A POUND over and above the finest roasted beans currently available, then let 'em pay.


Miguel's rise or fall will depend solely on his ability to deliver on his promise. Perfection or not, we all tasted the fine coffees of the past five years and can tell a turd from a golden nugget.

But I think you are missing the big picture here: from where I stand, it is about raising the quality of coffee at the farm, which is at this stage the part of coffee that needs most improvement. The care in picking the beans, processing & storage in particular. Think of it as what Robert Parker did to French wines. In the late 70's, early 80's the French wine industry was breaking down, and their quality sank to the bottom. Parker has turned it around through constructive criticism and by pointing out where the problems were. His reviews rewarded wineries that produced quality regardless of their official rank. The market followed him, and that turned around the entire industry.

Miguel is doing something similar, and I'm all for rewarding that effort. $200.00 lb coffee is ridiculously expensive. But so is a $200.00 Burgundy, and a bottle of a fine Pinot yields less cups than a pound of coffee. My small contribution here is being the sucker who pays that price :wink:. See it as a teaser to farmers - the market rewards quality, big time. Once that principle has been established, the market forces will move that industry into making the processing at the farm more efficient while raising quality. A $200.00 a pound can be $50.00. Oregon wineries like Hamacher make better Burgundy wines than most French wineries for a fraction of the price. This is where I hope coffee will be going.
Abe Carmeli
Abe Carmeli
 
Posts: 761
Joined: May 08, 2005
Location: New York, NY

Link to "Invitation only coffees - rmiguelcoffee.com"by pauljolly65 on Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:42 am

Abe Carmeli wrote:But I think you are missing the big picture here: from where I stand, it is about raising the quality of coffee at the farm, which is at this stage the part of coffee that needs most improvement.


Well said. Having read some of the details about the kind of care that went into the harvesting of 'aurora' and 'nectar' alone, I'm fascinated by the level of attention that's going into the harvest...let alone the processing. But there's the other side of the coin to consider: the coffee farmers themselves. My hope is that they are getting a very good cut of what must be an enormous profit margin.

Think of it as what Robert Parker did to French wines...$200.00 lb coffee is ridiculously expensive. But so is a $200.00 Burgundy, and a bottle of a fine Pinot yields less cups than a pound of coffee.


Yes, but even here one needn't pay over $45 for an excellent bottle of wine (if you can find it and like Zin, try the 2004 'Prisoner'). Perhaps we're just living in two different economies of scale. I could afford that kind of money every now & again, but with so many excellent local wines to choose from, it's ridiculous for me to do so. The vagaries of the industry being what they are, a small vintner can create a stunning wine one year and do well off the sales. This is like the CoE competitions, which I think raise the bar for farmers in a much more egalitarian fashion than the exclusive clubbing that is being offered here. (And note that one of the two cuppers in the link cited above scored the $200/# coffee below the standard Esmerelda Especial).

See it as a teaser to farmers - the market rewards quality, big time. Once that principle has been established, the market forces will move that industry into making the processing at the farm more efficient while raising quality.


I too would hope that this is the direction that coffee is going, but I have two concerns. One is that it is VERY expensive for farmers to do what Graciano Cruz has been able to do (remember, he's starting out with a coffee that already earns top dollar; look up some of the people who end up in the top ten at any CoE competition outside of Brasil and you'll find farmers who don't have that kind of cash, who are at the whim of brokers/millers/coyotes/etc. to get their beans processed, sold, and shipped). So, in order to do so, they need a big benefactor (and a benevolent one at that) and this raises concern #2: if the benefactor gets all the good coffee, what does that leave for the rest of the market? In truth, it leaves us with plenty of good coffee, but the principle is feudalistic rather than democratic. The best beans are pulled off the market for the rich to enjoy. Again, I'd prefer to see this done in an open-market system like the CoE competitions. However, if the wine industry parallel holds true, we will (as you've pointed out, Abe) eventually be in for some excellent coffee that we can all afford to enjoy...signatures or not. And I'd love to taste that strawberry hint in a cup!

Cheers,
Paul
pauljolly65
 
Posts: 88
Joined: Jan 07, 2007
Location: Santa Rosa, CA

PreviousNext

Return to Coffees