Initial Impressions of the Ponte Vecchio Lusso - Page 6

[mgwolf]

Hi all,
I've been enjoying this discussion of the Lusso. I have a different question for you. With pump machines, much fuss and energy is expended with the temp adjustment to get the best out of various coffees. From what I can tell, although the Lusso has a pstat, no one seems to fool with it much. Also, unlike and HX, the grouphead seems to give a very constant temperature when pulling shots. Soooo.... does anyone readjust their pstat for different coffee blends, or more important, feel the need to? If not, why not? Is everyone getting delicious enough shots all the time that they don't feel the need? Thanks. Michael

[grong]

I've been enjoying this discussion of the Lusso. I have a different question for you. With pump machines, much fuss and energy is expended with the temp adjustment to get the best out of various coffees. From what I can tell, although the Lusso has a pstat, no one seems to fool with it much. Also, unlike and HX, the grouphead seems to give a very constant temperature when pulling shots. Soooo.... does anyone readjust their pstat for different coffee blends, or more important, feel the need to? If not, why not? Is everyone getting delicious enough shots all the time that they don't feel the need?

I have adjusted my pstat on the Lusso to cut off at 1 bar. I think it makes great tasty espresso, and see no need to adjust for different coffees. Before I had an Isomac Zaffiro pump machine, and while it made great espresso, I was forever fussing, adjusting this temperature and that tamper and forever working on technique. With the Lusso my fussing is over, and I am enjoying espresso more than ever.

[timo888]

With pump machines, much fuss and energy is expended with the temp adjustment to get the best out of various coffees. From what I can tell, although the Lusso has a pstat, no one seems to fool with it much. Also, unlike and HX, the grouphead seems to give a very constant temperature when pulling shots. Soooo.... does anyone readjust their pstat for different coffee blends, or more important, feel the need to? If not, why not? Is everyone getting delicious enough shots all the time that they don't feel the need?

Adjusting the p-stat is not something to be done on an ad hoc basis with the Lusso. The cover has to be removed, and this involves unscrewing screws in the underside of the base of the machine. You could drill a hole through the side panel, I suppose, to reach the slotted screw of the p-stat, but I suspect p-stats are not designed for frequent adjustment.

Pressurized boiler lever machines are not designed to give the barista precise control over temperature, so the sort of temperature experimentation one can do with an inexpensive unpressurized espresso-only gravity-fed lever or with a relatively expensive HX or double boiler is pretty much out of the question with the Pavoni or Cremina or Ponte Vecchio or Elektra lever. And yes, the espresso is delicious all the time with the Lusso if the dose and grind are dialed in, which is not difficult.

You can make a good espresso on the Lusso with the p-stat setting anywhere from 0.8 to 1.5 bar. A setting somewhere in the upper half of that range might be optimal if you are going to pull mainly small singles. Nearing the low end of that pressure range, a manually assisted preinfusion may be advisable especially if one tends to updose with the double basket.

Regards
Timo

[timo888]

Outer diameter of spring 35mm
Length of spring 73mm (although the new repacement was about 3mm longer*)
Thickness of wire 5.5mm
Number of active coils (excluding the filed down ones) 5
Distance between coils 13mm (possibly slightly more on new one*)
Bob

sneakymagic's SAMA:
outer diameter of spring 37-38mm
length of spring 70mm total flat to flat
Thickness of wire 4mm
active coils 5
distance between coils (mid coil, centre to centre) c12.5mm


The wire on mousetail's spring is ~37% thicker and it has a slightly smaller outer diameter than the spring on sneakymagic's SAMA.

Regards
Timo

[Pixelator]

While on hiatus from the board over the past several months, I've been saving for a Lusso. Your review convinces me that I made the right choice and that the Lusso is the best value in a new lever machine. The bad news is that what I've saved so far is being re-routed to the Feds in a couple of weeks.

Thanks again for the great review!

[timo888]

While on hiatus from the board over the past several months, I've been saving for a Lusso. Your review convinces me that I made the right choice and that the Lusso is the best value in a new lever machine. The bad news is that what I've saved so far is being re-routed to the Feds in a couple of weeks.

Thanks again for the great review!

I would have responded sooner to your post, Pixelator, but for some reason the first two weeks in April are always a time of terrible procrastination for me.

The Lusso is indeed well worth consideration by anyone shopping for an espresso machine. Without hesitation I would recommend the Lusso -- especially to those folks who are lusting after Silvia. Unlike Silvia owners, very few Lusso owners will come down with a case of upgrade fever. At $700-$800, the Lusso is not entry-level kit. But those with budget constraints might consider a quality hand grinder for $100+ ... and upgrade to a $300-$400 electric grinder down the road.

I have been experimenting with dose and grind on both the single and double baskets. With a lower or higher dose, 5g-7g in the single basket, 10g-14g in the double basket, and an appropriate grind, the Lusso can produce a wide range of espresso, a tight ristretto's spicy intensity, a lungo's clarity and floral delicacy, a normale's smooth cocoa and sweet caramel. But if one decides to take a break from experimentation and settle down for a few weeks or a few months with a particular roast with a dose and grind that one finds especially pleasing, the Lusso's spring-driven piston will produce consistent, repeatable results.

Regards
Timo

[Pixelator]

[snip]

I have been experimenting with dose and grind on both the single and double baskets. With a lower or higher dose, 5g-7g in the single basket, 10g-14g in the double basket, and an appropriate grind, the Lusso can produce a wide range of espresso, a tight ristretto's spicy intensity, a lungo's clarity and floral delicacy, a normale's smooth cocoa and sweet caramel.

[snip]

Regards
Timo

Timo,

Have you posted the procedures of your experimentation and the corresponding results anywhere? I'd like to read them if you have.

Cheers!

[mgwolf]

Timo,
Another question on the Lusso. What are the dimensions/length of the PF? Is it bigger than the La Pavoni. I recently fooled around a bit with a friend's La Pavoni Europic and was a bit put off by the extremely short and dinky PF handle. I managed to keep coming in contact with the metal portions and burning myself. Thanks. Michael

[timo888]

[timo888]

Have you posted the procedures of your experimentation and the corresponding results anywhere? I'd like to read them if you have.

I have been experimenting informally, Pixelator, not taking any measurements, just to get a sense of what is possible with one or two pulls on both baskets, dosing from 5g to 7g on the single and from 10g to 14g on the double. The optimal dose depends on the roast and one's tongue, so I have no rule that could be applied equally to every roast. Though with a machine that has a small per-pull water draw, I do not strive to reach arbitrary volumes in the cup. Pull to taste. Feel free to have another if that one was on the small side

Regards
Timo

P.S. I just pulled into an espresso cup a very tasty two-pull espresso dosed to 9g in the double basket. After a light tamp, the basket looked half empty. Afterwards, I noted the line of the crema and filled the espresso cup with water to that line and then poured the water into a small graduated beaker. It had been 50ml including crema.

[mogogear]

Tim,
Just a "Atta-Boy" here- You are doing a very responsive job on working with peoples inquiries and requests for info and inference on the Lusso--- A lot of time put in-! Here here!

[timo888]

I have had many a query answered.... as you well know So it's only fair I should pony up with a few answers myself. It's the e-quivalent of buying a round.

Regards
Timo

[Javier]

Hi Timo,

If this is not too much to ask for, will it be possible to show some footage of pulling a shot with the Lusso at an angle similar to Ladalet's "Cremina video"? Just curious about the pulling technique.

Thanks

Javier

[timo888]

There's no technique to speak of, Javier, because you're simply compressing a spring when you pull the lever down. The barista simply pulls the lever down, holds it down for however long the preinfusion is to last, and then lets go of the lever. With coffee in the basket, the lever rises slowly under spring power as the extraction proceeds*.

The resistance the lever offers is not very great. No sumo stance required. A sylph would have sufficient arm strength to operate the Lusso. Because the machine is relatively heavy and has a low center-of-gravity, it does not need to be steadied while the lever is being pulled down; so one could always grasp the lever handle with both hands. Moreover, excellent results in the cup are attained with a very light tamping force, so no arm strength is required for that either.

While the shot extracts the barista's hands are free to do other tasks, such as steaming milk, which can be done while the shot extracts without any adverse effect upon the extraction; intra-shot brew temperature remains constant because the brew water is already in the piston chamber. Nor is inter-shot temperature stability adversely affected by steaming; with the large 3 liter boiler and 1000W heating element, recovery after steaming is almost instantaneous.

Regards
Timo

*CAUTION: One should never simply let go of the lever when it has been pulled down while the basket is empty. With no coffee in the basket there is almost no resistance, and so the lever handle will spring back up with great force.

[timo888]

With the Lusso my fussing is over, and I am enjoying espresso more than ever.

This statement deserves a large font.

Regards
Timo

[jmequipe]

hello

I'm the owner of a SAMA . the machine is the same than the ponte vecchio lusso 1.

i try to make the best espresso i can !

for the moment, i have no tamper but i want yo buy one size 45mm i think.

for you, what is the best choice ?

regards

[timo888]

I'm the owner of a SAMA . the machine is the same than the ponte vecchio lusso 1.
...
for the moment, i have no tamper but i want yo buy one size 45mm i think.
for you, what is the best choice ?

I am using a 45mm hardwood and polished brass tamper made in the retro style of the plastic La Peppina by H-B member espressme. All wood 45mm tampers are available from Les at ThorTamper

Vaneli's also carries a stainless steel and hardwood tamper which can be seen earlier in the thread in one of the pictures.

There may be other companies who carry 45mm tampers as well, but I have not explored the internet for this item.

I happen to use a very light tamp with great success, so the issue of how the tamper feels in my hand when used with 30 pounds of force does not arise.

Regards
Timo

[jmequipe]

Timo thank you for your fast reply.....

during pressure increase, a little water flew from the head grup and

i have to make 2 warming flush before having hot temperature coffee

What dou you think about that ? is it normal ?

i also need a double basket because when i bought the machine,

previous owner lost it.


if anyone can help me to find one, it will be nice.

cheers and sorry for my poor english !

jmequipe

[timo888]

during pressure increase, a little water flew from the head grup

Perhaps your piston seals need to be lubricated with food-safe sealant, such as Dow-Corning 111, or they might need to be replaced.

i have to make 2 warming flush before having hot temperature coffee. What dou you think about that ? is it normal ?

Air gets trapped in the thermosyphon when the machine has been turned off. This trapped air prevents the thermosyphon convection and the group remains cold. The flush expels the air, convection commences, and the group gets warm as it should.

i also need a double basket

You could check with Vaneli's to see if they sell replacement baskets. Now I see you are in France. Ponte Vecchio may sell direct from the factory. You could also check with Ponte Vecchio to get the names of distributors in France.

Regards
Timo

[jmequipe]

Hello timo


what kind of coffees for your machine ?

100 % arabica or arabica and robusta ?

I'm trying to get the a good espresso with a nice crema but it' not really easy for the moment !