Initial Impressions of the Ponte Vecchio Lusso - Page 2

[timo888]

My wife is liking her piccolo lattes from the Lusso very much. She also prefers the way I look when making espresso with the Lusso to my look when pulling shots on the Cremina:

"With the Cremina it looks as though you're trying to wring blood from a stone."

I take exception, but I had to share that remark

Regards
Timo

[timo888]

It has dawned on me why the Italians might keep the Lusso's boiler pressure around 1.5bar: they drink singles.

With the Lusso's small water draw, a slug of water loses too much heat, and a single extraction is slightly sour unless the boiler pressure/temperature is set higher. Via thermosyphon convection, the higher boiler temperature keeps the group hotter, thereby reducing its heat-sink effect. The additional pressure also brings the cake up to temperature more rapidly because of the more vigorous unassisted preinfusion, and the preinfusion is quicker. The result: a hotter single espresso in the sweet spot.

Regards
Timo

P.S. Now, out to shovel away 8 inches of sleet and freezing rain.

[bill]

Timo,
Good analysis! By the way, you may not want to know this, but the only ice I've seen lately was in my freezer. I just came inside after mowing my yard. It's time to take a break out on the patio with a cold one. Now if I can find some ice?
Bill

[timo888]

By the way, you may not want to know this, but the only ice I've seen lately was in my freezer. I just came inside after mowing my yard. It's time to take a break out on the patio with a cold one. Now if I can find some ice?

I know where you can get a few tons of it.

[peacecup]

P.S. Now, out to shovel away 8 inches of sleet and freezing rain.

Poor timo. Perhaps you'd like to stop by my place afterwards, for A METER of snow shoveling, with another 12" expected in the next 24 hrs. Fortunately I've been in the LOWER 48 this past week, so I've been able to ignore the glacier that is presently forming in my yard. Just yesterday AM I grabbed a doppio from Allain Bros.' three-group Conti lever for the drive from Corvallis OR to Seattle (bypassed that pesky town of Portland). Its one more day in the NW before returning to glacier country, where I'll have plenty of time to review timo's review of the Lusso. BTW timo, you appear to have worked out the same deal with Gene that I had been scheming - was it buyer's remorse, or did you actually get it as a loan? Looking forward to reading it...

PC

[timo888]

Hi peacecup,
I approached Vaneli's about sending me a loaner along with extra baskets, so I could find out first-hand about the merits of the Lusso, specifically the temperature stability of its thermosyphon group in a dinner-party or entertaining scenario -- the 'club' niche between 'personal' machine and single-group professional/catering machines. I made the case for my experience with several kinds of lever machines, including the Cremina and the Peppina, and said I would write up my honest impressions of the machine either here on H-B or on my blog (which is still under construction --the blog will be devoted to vintage-style lever espresso machines and recommendations of online roasts). After using the Lusso this past week to make espresso for my wife and myself, I have a good sense of how the machine works. When the package containing two pounds of coffee (Dark Star from Rocket and Firenze from Caffe D'Arte) ordered from Soho Espresso arrives in the mail today or tomorrow, I am going to do some testing in "dinner party mode", making six doubles one after the other. If that is of any interest to you up in glacier territory, where there are very few people per square mile, stay tuned

Regards
Timo
P.S. The sidewalks are clear now. The 4 inches of snow was easy. The 4 inch layer of ice below the snow was work.

[peacecup]

Hi timo,

Well, your're right - I have never made more three espressos in succession with the Export, although I did once or twice a while ago with my pump machine. I always thought the syhpon group looked like a good design. I'll bet that even with it the group will over heat after several shots - seems like there's just not quite enough of a sink there. I do think it is a great design, however, being tall and narrow it seems likely to transmit more heat that a shorter squater group. And, as you've no doubt devined, its nearly impossible to get side-channeling with the double basket. I never quite bought Jim S.' argument that since group desin as tended towards wider and shallower that this was due to efforts to make better espresso - that's like saying since Detroit keeps making bigger trucks they must somehow be better.

I've found an almost endless variety of ways to tweek the 45-mm group to get different results, although I'm sure its the same with any good espresso maker. I've also found the spring to be a constant that can help guide me towards better manipulation of all of the other variables.

Have you tried over-riding the spring on a shot that is too slow yet? I do this frequently, and I'll bet it brings the pressure up to 9 bar - its all my weight on top of the piston.

PC

[timo888]

I'll bet that even with [the indirect connection to the boiler] the group will over heat after several shots - seems like there's just not quite enough of a sink there.

Its small water draw, especially relative to the surface-area and mass characteristics of its indirectly attached group, lead me to predict that the Lusso will do quite well in the number-of-shots-in-succession-before-overheating category. So far, I have pulled four doubles in succession. No coffee in the mail today to test the prediction further... maybe tomorrow or ... Wednesday.

Have you tried over-riding the spring on a shot that is too slow yet? I do this frequently, and I'll bet it brings the pressure up to 9 bar - its all my weight on top of the piston.

No, I have not tried to exert additional force upon the piston. I don't know that the fulcrum is designed to take upward force on the lever--it could be, but I wouldn't want to risk doing that especially with a loaner. If my shots are too slow, I coarsen the grind and/or lower the dose a bit.

I've also found the spring to be a constant that can help guide me towards better manipulation of all of the other variables.

Agree 100%.


Regards
Timo

[timo888]

Experimenting with singles -- a very small dose in the single basket, lightly levelled with a slightly convex tamper. The Lusso produces a delicate three-sip single espresso, an excellent mid-morning or mid-afternoon pick-me-up.

Regards
Timo

[mogogear]

My wife is liking her piccolo lattes from the Lusso very much. She also prefers the way I look when making espresso with the Lusso to my look when pulling shots on the Cremina:

"With the Cremina it looks as though you're trying to wring blood from a stone."

I take exception, but I had to share that remark

Regards
Timo

I just caught this and I had to laugh out loud! My wife used to comment along the same line-
"ARE YOU SURE YOU LIKE USING THAT MACHINE? BECAUSE YOUR FACE IS ALL CONTORTED AND YOU ARE BENT OVER IT LIKE A MAD SCIENTIST!"

She also noted that I hooked my toe under the cabinet kick to have pull leverage with my foot in addition to my arm!

Thanks for the mirror moment!

[peacecup]

If any of you poor overworked Cremina owners wants to donate your machine, I have a well-rested spring lever arm that would like to try a manual lever.

[mogogear]

Ahhhh Jack,

We have been though this, I tried to send you one to play with ... you were afraid there was no anti-venom for the bite of Cremina up there in Alaska!

If I ever get my two machines working, I will offer again to send one on vacation. You need to know if you are missing anything or not. You poor under privileged Alaskans with all that beautiful scenery and sparkling water and clean air, not needing to lock your doors at night......but I digress.

I have used a lot of levers this last year, sometimes I have been impressed, sometimes amused and sometimes not... you just never know...

[timo888]

I just caught this and I had to laugh out loud! My wife used to comment along the same line-
"ARE YOU SURE YOU LIKE USING THAT MACHINE? BECAUSE YOUR FACE IS ALL CONTORTED AND YOU ARE BENT OVER IT LIKE A MAD SCIENTIST!"

She also noted that I hooked my toe under the cabinet kick to have pull leverage with my foot in addition to my arm!

Thanks for the mirror moment!

Pulling shots on the spring-lever is a more leisurely affair...especially when you don't have to worry about the machine tipping over, as you do with the Peppina.

[peacecup]

Leisure is an understatement. Its among the greatest of culinary pleasures. I don't recall seeing the link to the PV factory website in your review, so here it is:

http://www.pontevecchiosrl.it/

These machines, if not built to the exacting tolerances of the Olympias, are very much functional art. Over a year into daily use of my Export I continue to discover subtle nuances in pulling shots, and my respect for the simple "vintage" design continues to grow.

PC

[timo888]

I don't recall seeing the link to the PV factory website in your review, so here it is:

http://www.pontevecchiosrl.it/

A link to Ponte Vecchio was hidden away in the section on fit-and-finish, but it doesn't hurt to have another. Here's a satellite view of Via degli Artigiani, 13 - I - 27010 CURA CARPIGNANO - PAVIA, halfway between Turin and Milan.

[timo888]

My daughter, one year out of college, stops by for dinner on her way to the Philadelphia airport.

"So, I see there's only one espresso machine on the counter," she says. Her eyes and my wife's eyes meet.

I opened two bags of Rocket's Dark Star yesterday, one roasted on March 7th, the other on March 19th. The more recent roast, only 4 days old, was a little harsh yet, so I set it aside to get more beauty sleep. I am using the one roasted over two weeks ago, which is very mellow. I pulled a delicious single with it on the Lusso, on the cool side, earlier in the day.

I hand the observant girl a latte. "Try this."

"What's this shape supposed to be?" she asks, looking into the cup.

"Just drink it."

"This is the best one you ever made for me," she says.

Hah! With Lusso and Dark Star, who's outnumbered!


Timo

[mogogear]

For your daughter to give that up in front of your wife- she must have seen her debit card card get "re-charged"

[timo888]

For your daughter to give that up in front of your wife- she must have seen her debit card card get "re-charged"

Daughter has no trouble letting her opinion be known, believe me Every now and then, she puts money in my bank account She's on the pay-me-back-when-you-can plan.

She and my wife prefer the gentler espresso produced by a 6-bar spring lever, and Rocket's Dark Star after it has rested does make a very smooth latte.

Regards
Timo

[timo888]

[Kaffee Bitte]

That is a beautiful shot. Just wondering about something I have seen a few times with Ponte Vecchio shots. Why is the shot mostly pouring out only one of the two holes? Is the machine not leveled properly or is this just a peculiarity of the portafilters?

Lynn