Incomplete list of Gravity-fed lever machines - Page 2

[mogogear]

Cool. Where did you find that image?

I have to say I prefer the elegance of the original design over this one . . . the cup warmer would come in handy tho!

Henry

Here you go Henry


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6279688819

[timo888]

Where did I find the image of the Caravel Little?

Elsewhere on H-B. I will say no more at this time.

'Little' is a Lilliputian moniker--small compared to some, true, but rather large compared to others. The cup-heating tray is a convenience until it's time to fill the boiler, I'd imagine.

If only there were a ready source of malleable 110V calrods!

Regards
Timo

[Staffan]

It isn't that the boiler temp is unstable, it's that the brewing temp is unstable. Doesn't necessarily mean the espresso isn't good, but rather it is a challenge to get the water to a good brewing temperature.

Inside a boiler at steam pressure the water temp is far above the range of acceptable brewing temperatures. Lever machines with this design rely on the exposed metal group head to absorb heat from the couple ounces of water you will introduce to the coffee.

After a certain amount of time or certain number of shots the group head gets too hot to perform it's heat-absorbing function, and you get unpleasant shots.

With the gravity-lever or open (unpressurized)-boiler machines in this topic the whole shebang (boiler, group head) is kept at brewing temperature, so getting a good shot should be much easier.

Another interesting thing about comparing pressurized-boiler and open-boiler designs is that they will have different temperature profiles during the extraction. Pressurized-boiler designs should start out hotter and cool a bit, while open-boiler designs should have a flatter profile. I don't know how these two profiles would effect the taste.

Henry

That doesn't explain why the Achille's heel of the Achille would be the pressurized boiler, since it is a basic HX.


Ps. It's probably fed by the suction of the piston, not gravity.
ds.

[mogogear]

Where did I find the image of the Caravel Little?

Elsewhere on H-B. I will say no more at this time.

'Little' is a Lilliputian moniker--small compared to some, true, but rather large compared to others. The cup-heating tray is a convenience until it's time to fill the boiler, I'd imagine.

If only there were a ready source of malleable 110V calrods!

Regards
Timo

http://www.hasco.com/webseite.nsf/FrameByKey/DKLR-5SHGMU-UK-p

220v but getting closer

http://www.hotset.de/englisch/rohrheizkoerper.html

maybe... one of these is upside down- witha threaded neck to screw in to the base of a percolator??




http://www.hotset.de/englisch/rohrheizkoerper.html



Probably not theright answers - also it couldbe easier to hace one of those flanged elements that you just bolt on over a round hole. using 4 bolts- or over 4 studs around a central hole for the element to insert through. A off the shelf option will always make it cheaper and easier to bring to reality.
got to go mow the yard

[mogogear]

Where did I find the image of the Caravel Little?

Elsewhere on H-B. I will say no more at this time.

'Little' is a Lilliputian moniker--small compared to some, true, but rather large compared to others. The cup-heating tray is a convenience until it's time to fill the boiler, I'd imagine.

If only there were a ready source of malleable 110V calrods!

Regards
Timo

http://www.hasco.com/webseite.nsf/FrameByKey/DKLR-5SHGMU-UK-p

220v but getting closer

http://www.hotset.de/englisch/rohrheizkoerper.html

maybe... one of these is upside down- witha threaded neck to screw in to the base of a percolator??




http://www.hotset.de/englisch/rohrheizkoerper.html



Probably not theright answers - also it could be easier to have one of those flanged elements that you just bolt on over a round hole. using 4 bolts- or over 4 studs around a central hole for the element to insert through. A off the shelf option will always make it cheaper and easier to bring to reality.

got to go mow the yard

[hbuchtel]

That doesn't explain why the Achille's heel of the Achille would be the pressurized boiler, since it is a basic HX.


Ps. It's probably fed by the suction of the piston, not gravity.
ds.

Honestly I cannot see any weakness in the Achille design, only that it would take a lot of experience to know when the brew water was at a good temperature...

How is it working for you? Do you find you need to flush some water through like people do with non-lever HXs?

Henry

[timo888]

Honestly I cannot see any weakness in the Achille design, only that it would take a lot of experience to know when the brew water was at a good temperature...

I guess it depends on how one defines 'design weakness'. To produce good espresso requires control, perhaps first and foremost, over temperature. I'm puzzled that anyone would consider an espresso machine well-designed if achieving and maintaining proper brew temperature is not simply to be taken for granted.

Regards
Timo

[hbuchtel]

I guess it depends on how one defines 'design weakness'. To produce good espresso requires control, perhaps first and foremost, over temperature. I'm puzzled that anyone would consider an espresso machine well-designed if achieving and maintaining proper brew temperature is not simply to be taken for granted.

Regards
Timo

With HX machines you can control the brew temperature. Getting the right temp. wouldn't be a no-brainer though, trade-off for having instant-steaming I guess.

I imagine the Achille's HX would be fairly difficult to control. The temperature of the boiler water should be constant, and the water flowing through the group head should be quite stable, so with experience you would know how long to wait (after flushing the HX tube) for the brew water to come up to to temperature. (I think it would warm up more slowly then a standard HX 'cause the Achille HX 'tube' is shorter.) A complicating factor would be that the fresh water tank would not be very stable temperature-wise, it would absorb heat from the boiler beneath it, but cool down when refilled . . .

If there was a two boiler lever machine for the Achille's price (or if it existed at all!) it would be a better choice, eh?

Henry

[PaulTheRoaster]

Woohoo! I just won a bright yellow Conti Comocafe :
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4461320633

It looks like it could perhaps be a demi machine. I will let everyone know how it works out. (My first lever with a heating element!)

[JD]

Congratulations on your new machine!! You outbid me on that one, I did not think it would go very high so my bid was low. Oh well I just won the red La Peppina

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI....em&item=4461354817

[PaulTheRoaster]

Aw, bad luck. I'm taking a bit of a risk though ... noone knows what the Conti Comocafe is. There are also far less of them circulating (it seems). Still, even if the pressure and volume are off, if the temperature is right, then it might be an improvement on my current office coffee situation at least.

[another_jim]

Aw, bad luck. I'm taking a bit of a risk though ... noone knows what the Conti Comocafe is. There are also far less of them circulating (it seems). Still, even if the pressure and volume are off, if the temperature is right, then it might be an improvement on my current office coffee situation at least.

Congrats -- Can't wait to hear how it works out for you!

[mathias]

Aw, bad luck. I'm taking a bit of a risk though ... noone knows what the Conti Comocafe is. There are also far less of them circulating (it seems). Still, even if the pressure and volume are off, if the temperature is right, then it might be an improvement on my current office coffee situation at least.

I have one of those though I haven't come around to use more then a few test runs. They indicate that water distribution could be better. Filter basket that came with the machine is 49mm diameter and 24 mm deep. I have some pictures (http://lm.steen.free.fr/html/photo_gallery-1.html).

/Mathias

[PaulTheRoaster]

I have one of those though I haven't come around to use more then a few test runs. They indicate that water distribution could be better. Filter basket that came with the machine is 49mm diameter and 24 mm deep. I have some pictures (http://lm.steen.free.fr/html/photo_gallery-1.html).

Great pictures. What you say is actually encouraging. My fear was that the machine wouldn't make anything resembling espresso at all. Do you think the water distribution problem is a fault of the dispersion disc? I would think that would be one of the easier parts to have fabricated.

-Paul

[mathias]

Great pictures. What you say is actually encouraging. My fear was that the machine wouldn't make anything resembling espresso at all. Do you think the water distribution problem is a fault of the dispersion disc? I would think that would be one of the easier parts to have fabricated.

-Paul

Yes, three screws instead of zero or one doesn't help to distribute the water. The filter disc trick helps a lot (a disc cut out of an ordinary coffee drip filter).

[timo888]

... a few test runs ... indicate that water distribution could be better.

Try a very long pre-infuse. I give the Peppina 17 seconds... 1 Peppina...2 Peppina ... 17 Peppina.

With my left hand grasping the portafilter handle (which is pointing out at me) with my right I grasp the lever and bring it all the way down and then allow it t rise about two-thirds of the way, until I see a few drops coming out of the spouts, and then I depress the lever all the way and hold it there for ~17 seconds. Then I let it rise under its own power.

This is with a very fine grind. I don't see any drops in the cup from the preinfusion until the lever goes up two-thirds of the way after the initial pull.
Regards
Timo

NOTE:. I've edited this description for clarity; you don't see the drop from the preinfusion until you guide the lever up to force some water from the piston-chamber into the puck; a little bit of water flows under gravity to the group when the lever is depressed, but almost all of the water goes into the piston chamber, by design. You have to let the piston push some water to the group for the preinfusion to take place.

[happytamper]

Try a very long pre-infuse. I give the Peppina 17 seconds... 1 Peppina...2 Peppina ... 17 Peppina.

With my left hand grasping the portafilter handle (which is pointing out at me) with my right I grasp the lever and bring it all the way down and hold it there for ~17 seconds. Then I gently bring it up approximately two-thirds of the way -- until I see a few drops coming out of the portafilter spouts. Then I bring the lever all the way down once again for a second or two and then let it rise under its own power.

This is with a very fine grind. I don't see any drops in the cup from the preinfusion until the lever goes up two-thirds of the way after the initial pull.
Regards
Timo

Hi Timo,

How long does the extraction take with your La Peppina? I find mine is taking around 35 seconds with no help on the lever. I pretty much use the same process as you to get started. Also how much coffee do your end up with in the cup?

[timo888]

How long does the extraction take with your La Peppina? I find mine is taking around 35 seconds with no help on the lever. I pretty much use the same process as you to get started. Also how much coffee do your end up with in the cup?

The extraction time, excluding pre-infuse, depends upon three basic factors:

-- fineness of the grind
-- weight of the tamp
-- amount of coffee in the basket

With the Peppina, I use two slightly-less-than-level Peppina measuring spoons full of whole beans (~11g); dump them into the grinder and grind very fine (finer than for the Cremina by two numbered detents on the Simonelli MCF knob); and then tamp with ~30 pounds; I give a very thorough final polish to the surface--several full rotations of the Peppina plastic tamper which fits the cylindrical basket perfectly. (I haven't received the smaller conical basket yet.) When I'm done with these ministrations, the top of the business end of the plastic tamper is flush with the top rim of the basket--not much headroom. This procedure gives a ~22 second extraction time, and the pre-infusion pull coupled with a second pull starting from two-thirds of the way up (as described earlier) yields ~40ml in the cup.

If the cup contains less than 40ml following this procedure it could be that the one-way valve at the top of the Peppina piston chamber has stiffened and is allowing brew water back into the kettle.

I have also had success really loading up the basket so that there's no headroom to speak of at all, tamping with ~50 pounds, and giving a third pull. This adds time to the extraction and another ~20ml to the cup and the espresso is still very tasty but not as buttery in its mouth feel. (High marks, BTW, in both scenarios, to Hacienda La Minita from Caffe Fresco.)

Regards
Timo

[timo888]

If only there were a ready source of malleable 110V calrods!

http://www.hasco.com/webseite.nsf/FrameByKey/DKLR-5SHGMU-UK-p

220v but getting closer

http://www.hotset.de/englisch/rohrheizkoerper.html

maybe... one of these is upside down- witha threaded neck to screw in to the base of a percolator??

http://www.hotset.de/englisch/rohrheizkoerper.html


Probably not theright answers - also it couldbe easier to hace one of those flanged elements that you just bolt on over a round hole. using 4 bolts- or over 4 studs around a central hole for the element to insert through. A off the shelf option will always make it cheaper and easier to bring to reality.

Good leads, but unless they're immersible in water you have to take the Caravel route and put the heating element outside the boiler. I'm not quite ready yet to ramp up for production of The Beast and was thinking retail --buy vintage 220V machines from Europe and swap out the heating element for a 110V. Immersibility usually required.

Regards
Timo

[hbuchtel]

I have one of those though I haven't come around to use more then a few test runs. They indicate that water distribution could be better. Filter basket that came with the machine is 49mm diameter and 24 mm deep. I have some pictures (http://lm.steen.free.fr/html/photo_gallery-1.html).

/Mathias

Mathias, I've added one of your pictures to the list, I hope you don't mind.

It seems that both the Caravel and Comocafe were given face-lifts in the 70's (?), I wonder if the Minigaggia had a curvier predecessor?

Henry