I want thicker, oilier espresso

[nixter]

Ok, I'm pulling some very very good shots in my opinion. I usually pull doubles and they look and taste great, pulling 2 ounces around 25-33 seconds. My only real complaint is that when I compare to shots pulled (with the same beans in fact) at my favorite cafes they seem to have a slightly thicker, oilier, consistency than mine do. What could be the reason for this? I'm guessing that I'm blonding too early? How do I solve this? put more grind in the basket?

Thanks,

n

[cafeIKE]

First, buy the same grinder, then the same machine.

Seriously, trying to exactly duplicate a bar shot at home can be an exercise in frustration. Rarely are two shots in a bar identical when made on the same equipment, so the likelihood of duplicating on a home setup is on the slim side of none.

Based on what you describe, I'd try raising the temperature, coarsening the grind and increasing the dose.

[nixter]

Seriously, trying to exactly duplicate a bar shot at home can be an exercise in frustration. Rarely are two shots in a bar identical when made on the same equipment, so the likelihood of duplicating on a home setup is on the slim side of none.

Sorry, I'm not sure what you're meaning in relation to my question. I'm not really worried about the consistency of various espresso bars shots, all the good ones I go to serve an oily espresso. Oh ic, you're saying how can I expect to be consistent at home from shot to shot when pro grade espresso bars hardly are? In that case I actually do get more consistent results at home, bar none.

Based on what you describe, I'd try raising the temperature, coarsening the grind and increasing the dose.

Well I'm going to start with increasing the dose first. Doing all three might help but it would tell me nothing.

thanks

n

[HB]

My only real complaint is that when I compare to shots pulled (with the same beans in fact) at my favorite cafes they seem to have a slightly thicker, oilier, consistency than mine do. What could be the reason for this?

Some espresso machines produce higher body shots than others by the nature of their preferred dose (larger dose, more body) or their preinfusion (faster preinfusion, more body - or so it seems to me). I agree with Ian, you can coarsen the grind, increase the dosage, and reduce the brew ratio to ristretto range to emphasize heavy viscosity. Jon's How to make a beautify "naked" triple espresso takes this to the extreme. But you may be limited by the natural capabilities of your gear versus those at your local cafe. Nothing wrong with that assuming you're otherwise enjoying the espresso, they're just different.

[Brownie]

Hi all, and of course you need the same coffee than the one you are looking at in the cafe...

[nixter]

Hi all, and of course you need the same coffee than the one you are looking at in the cafe...

Yup, I stated that in my original post.

I'm going to try a little more in the basket this morning. I'll look into alternate baskets as well seeing as I've read that the NS baskets hold about 5g less than LM baskets.

I've edited the thread title on someone's suggestion. Valid comment. "Blonding too early?" is technically the problem I've having but it didn't state what I was after exactly.

n

[Brownie]

Yup, I stated that in my original post.

Sorry...yes, you said it was the same beans...(what a debut-post i did )

[HB]

I usually pull doubles and they look and taste great, pulling 2 ounces around 25-33 seconds.

"Blonding too early?" is technically the problem I've having but it didn't state what I was after exactly.

Why have you concluded the problem is premature blonding? Could you post a video?

[nixter]

Why have you concluded the problem is premature blonding? Could you post a video?

Well I meant that "technically" the problem is premature blonding. Hence why I changed the title. Any pour tends to get thinner or blonder as time passes. The point at which I stop pouring is probably not even what most would consider blond. I'm just looking for a longer pour of the really thick stuff. Anyhow, forget I said blonding as it implies there is something wrong with my shots, there isn't. I just want them thicker.

Sorry, no vids. I'll be honest... too much hassle, I'm lazy.

n

[another_jim]

The standard Nuova Simonelli baskets supplied with the Oscar are relatively shallow, and the Oscar is a machine that doesn't like the puck against the shower screen, so up dosing may not be a good cure. Either pull ristrettos, or get an LM or Faema style basket to get shots with more body. It's a cheap fix.

[nixter]

Update!

Turns out my favorite bar was using triple baskets to pull doubles! Those dirty cheaters! haha. Anyways I found a triple basket for my Oscar PF that doesn't require making it bottomless.

n

[shadowfax]

Where did you find a short triple basket? I am curious. I have the LM and Synesso triples (I favor the Synesso, it's not really a full triple, it's more like 2 2/3 or so). near as I can tell, the 2 baskets are the same height, and the Synesso is smaller by virtue of the taper at the bottom. I would be very interested to try a shorter 18 gram basket that had a more squared off edge at the bottom. Especially if that basket were ridgeless as well...

[nixter]

Got it a couple blocks from my place in Vancouver. It's called ECM Coffee. The basket looks identical to a NS double except deeper.

n

[nixter]

Ok so I tested out the triple this morning and it was a little bitter. I got 2 onces in exactly 25 seconds. (I only want a double espresso from my triple basket remember) I also tamped a lighter than usual. Is 25 seconds a bit quick for a triple? I'll adjust dose and temp before I play with grind as the grind I'm using works perfectly for double baskets.

thanks,

n

[dawgcatching]

Are you using a bottomless PF? If not, you might want to try one. Perhaps your dosing isn't even throughout the basket, and you are getting an over-extraction in one area. You will know in a hurry if this is the case if you pull a few shots on one.

Also, try the deeper basket. 19-21g is typically what I pull, although 21g is alot, depending on your basket and your machine. An, as others have noted: try ristretto shots. I shoot for 1.5 ounces in 25 seconds, then vary by what works with the current blend.

[shadowfax]

I would consider your 2 oz. to be a ristretto, and I personally think that 25 s is on the short end of what I would like. I don't know that I would expect a 25 s pour to be bitter in and of itself, though. Or rather, I wouldn't expect increasing the time alone to solve the issue. the first suspect on bitter drinks for me is always channeling or other unevenness in the extraction.

You definitely need a naked PF if you aren't POSITIVE you are dosing and distributing an even bed of coffee. If you know you are, though, then the problem is probably dosage. excessive updosing or downdosing will be a lot harder on the puck and probably cause some unevenness... so the first thing I would try is a variation of dosage.

I am still at the stage where I never can tell whether to updose or downdose from where I am. last week I kept updosing on this coffee I was having, from 20 grams to 21, and I think even 21.5. I was still getting clearance from the shower screen at 21.5 grams, but apparently there wasn't enough room for expansion. I finally decided to try downdosing and dropped it to 18 grams and it was sweet, but not great, and 19 grams was awesome, and has been all week.

[RapidCoffee]

Where did you find a short triple basket? I am curious. I have the LM and Synesso triples (I favor the Synesso, it's not really a full triple, it's more like 2 2/3 or so). near as I can tell, the 2 baskets are the same height, and the Synesso is smaller by virtue of the taper at the bottom. I would be very interested to try a shorter 18 gram basket that had a more squared off edge at the bottom. Especially if that basket were ridgeless as well...

It's not the basket, it's the portafilter. The standard NS Oscar portafilter accomodates a triple basket.

[shadowfax]

It's not the basket, it's the portafilter. The standard NS Oscar portafilter accomodates a triple basket.

Thanks John. I guess I'll just give up then--Already set with the LM "lion" portafilter, one of my favorite "coffee toys." That's pretty neat that the NS portafilters that come with a machine that cheap are so nice and big. That's a great touch to a machine. I am pretty disappointed that most manufacturers include portafilters that can only accommodate a double basket before they bottom out. Even if I didn't use a triple basket, I think I would want the extra clearance.

[RapidCoffee]

Thanks John. I guess I'll just give up then--Already set with the LM "lion" portafilter, one of my favorite "coffee toys." That's pretty neat that the NS portafilters that come with a machine that cheap are so nice and big. That's a great touch to a machine. I am pretty disappointed that most manufacturers include portafilters that can only accommodate a double basket before they bottom out. Even if I didn't use a triple basket, I think I would want the extra clearance.

An Oscar was my first HX machine, and I'll always have a warm fuzzy feeling about it. I didn't mind the ABS body or lack of a hot water wand, but I do wish it came with an easily adjustable OPV. (Perhaps the newer models are different.) Unfortunately, at $1000 (current sale price) it's not all that cheap any more...

[nixter]

I just tried again, filling the basket a little more and tamping a little harder. This produced a 54 sec 2 ounce shot. I think I'll aim for something in between next time.

n