I've got those spouted portafilter blues - Page 2

[erics]

Eric, I'm not quite sure what you mean by "squiggly." You mean when the pours starts to get thin and light, or something else?

Perhaps "squiggly" is a bean specific thing. The closest analogy that comes to mind is the "art" of pouring water from a pyrex measurer. Pouring the water slowly lets it remain in a nice, solid stream; tilting the glass measurer a little more and the water will start to "break up" with lots going where it is unintended.

Your shot looked nice. Next time, just move the espresso cup aside when you WOULD HAVE shut the lever and let the pour continue for a few seconds into the drip tray. See if the geometry of the pour changes from a nice stream into a "squiggly" stream.

And, BTW, in the video, I heard your OPV talking (screeching) back at you. Next time you place an order with Chris Coffee, ask them to send you a new OPV insert ($5). When the machine is COLD, note the approximate position of the OPV (or measure the pressure with a blind basket) and simply unscrew the adjustment hex all the way. Note the indentation in the rubber valve face - it is likely off-center. Put a matchead's worth of food-grade grease on the O-ring area, place the new insert on the spring, and screw the new part in.

[TimEggers]

Interesting discussion oddly I'm having the exact opposite "problem" right now. I sold my Rancilio Bottomless portafilter and while sending my extra Quickmill handle out to be made bottomless I went back to my double spouted handle.

Today I unwrapped my modified portafilter (which looks real nice, thanks EPNW) and proceeded to make several doubles. They are all harsh and not too good. I didn't change the grind, tamp or basket. Temps should all be the same as well. Out of curiosity I loaded and locked my double spouted portafilter (using the same grind and all that) and the espresso was noticeable smoother and more enjoyable.

I can't explain this but perhaps my time without a bottomless portafilter was a blessing in disguise. I'm going to experiment for the next week or so but after today my "beloved" bottomless may become a cabinet stuffer.

[erics]

The temperatures are different - as you will see when Santa comes through.

For example, on a fully warmed up machine with no PF in the group, group temperatures will be ~ 213 F (depending on your pstat setting, altitude, etc., etc). Put a PF in the group and the temperatures will come down about 1.5 to 2.0 degrees and stabilize at that new lower level. Put a bottomless PF in the group and the temperatures will also come down (and eventually stabilize) - I just have not measured that one. The PF, in its various configurations, adds an additional heat sink to the grouphead mass.

So, if you happen to be using a bean that is particular as regards temperature, you may experience exactly what happened. You also don't necessarily have to be using a temperature particular bean - you were obviously "in the proper temperature band" but maybe near the edge with your old PF and the new bottomless PF took you out of the band towards higher average temps but not by leaps and bounds.

[TimEggers]

Hello Eric, yes your observations seem so logical. Like I've said I still am going to experiment. Thanks for the feedback I'll try to experiment with "blind" temp management until Santa comes.

[Psyd]

For example, on a fully warmed up machine with no PF in the group... ...The PF, in its various configurations, adds an additional heat sink to the grouphead mass.

A fully warmed up machine tends to include the PF holder, for me. I know when Silvia is warm enough when I reach under the group and feel the PF holder. If that's too hot to touch comfortably, she's ready to go.

[avdiscolo]

I've done two experiments with both Espresso Vivace Vita and Klatch Belle Espresso and both times the espresso produced by the spouted portafilters tastes kind of 'ashy" and overextracted, while the espresso produced by the bottomless portafilter is full of flavors (chocolate, fruit, etc.):

1. Same basket
2. Same grind
3. Same distribution and tamping
4. Same temperature (using Chris' Coffee's digital thermometer for Quickmill E61 groupheads)

I've also noticed the bubbling of the espresso out of the spouted portafilter and the reduced crema. The bottomless portafilter produces a wonderfully extreme amount of crema from the Vivace Vita, in particular.

I even tried comparing the single spout vs. the double spout, and I liked the espresso from the single spouted portafilter a little better than the double.

Could it have something to do with the amount of metal that the espresso touches while it's coming out of the portafilter? Could the additional metal somehow increase the overall brew temperature? In my next experiment, I might try reducing the brew temperature for the spouted portafilters and see if that makes a difference.

[avdiscolo]

In my next experiment, I might try reducing the brew temperature for the spouted portafilters and see if that makes a difference.

I tried pulling the same shot with the double spouted portafilter at approximately 1 degree below the temperature I pulled a previous bottomless portafilter shot. The bitterness is gone, but there is simply less flavor and volume from the double spouted shot.