Without enmity -- or condescension, for that matter --
IF you're point is that it's easier to get "standard" items, such as a 58mm tamper, as opposed to a non-standard item, such as a 53mm tamper -- I have
never disagreed with you.
However,
Psyd wrote:The availability of a thing in the used market is a straw indicator of their popularity and availability in general.
Yes, and you could at one time find quite a number of used Edsels, Corvairs and Pintos, too. So let me try once again . . .
Psyd wrote:Pretty much all of the posts that I have made in response you yours have been to indicate the preference of a 58mm group is mainly a result of their availability due to their popularity . . .
I see this as faulty logic. It's preferred because its popular? Why did it become popular?
Do we
know that espresso manufacturers like Faema experimented with other sizes of E61 groups/portafilters? Do we know that 58mm results in the best espresso, and so
that's why it's the standard? (In which case one could well ask why La Spaziale (to name but one company) uses a different size.) Or, is it that the E61 group is a 58mm, and so every other company that uses an E61 (or clone thereof) is, by default, using a 58mm portafilter?
I mean, clearly, if Espresso Manufacturer "X" ran a series of experiments in their "R&D phase" (back in the 1960s? 1940s? whenever?) using the same machine but with different sized groups, different sized portafilters, and came up with the
fact that 58mm worked better than 60mm, or 55mm, or 53, 49 or 47.25mm -- that's one thing. But it's quite another if Faema came up with 58mm (and I'm not saying they were the first, but they are an easy name upon which to fixate for the moment) for their E61, and so -- by default -- everyone else using an E61 is "stuck" with 58 millimeters.
Psyd wrote:. . . I hold that opinion, and is held by many, many other baristi both home and pro. That preference would make any other size slightly (depending on the buyer) less desirable. I also suggested that this was my intent many times, and that you should go back and read my posts again in that light.
To be clear:
I am not claiming that other tampers are not readily available, or that other sized groups produce inferior product!
I'm simply stating that it's easier to sell a common thing ( like my car analogy) that has common parts that are readily available, cheaper (see high school economics to find out why that tends to have them priced lower, too...), possibly available in a second-hand (for those that want to get in on the real cheap), and less difficult to track down. Especially when one's address may change once every seven days for months on end.
OK, so used VW parts are easier to sell than used Ferrari parts? I'm not sure I want used parts in the first place -- but that brings us back to used tampers, and I don't much see the point in those, either, even though a tamper has fewer moving parts!
As I said previously, Chris, I think this is much ado about nothing.
I do not deny, nor have I ever denied, that 58mm is the "standard." However, I am quite content with a top-quality machine -- regardless of the size tamper it requires -- as long as I can coax great espresso from it. The fact that a particular machine may need a "non-standard" size does not make that machine "off-limits" to my needs. If, for example, we were all raving about the latest dual boiler technology from La Spaziale, and how La Spaziale was the manufacturer every coffeehouse owner and chain was using, and how consumers were dying to know everything about the first one-group La Spaziale for the home in history -- complete with its "non-standard" 53mm basket . . .
how long would it take for there to be a new "standard'?(And let's face it, "standard" isn't always "better." Look at Macs v. PCs, Windows v. Linux, Gallo [the largest winemaker in the world, and thus, one can claim it as "standard"] v. Domaine de la Romanée Conti. OK, I'll admit that last one's not quite fair.)
As long as I can find the equipment I need, I'm a happy camper. If I owned a 1948 Pavoni, I would certainly understand that some parts may not be readily available, and indeed, I might have to have them made to order. OTOH, if I buy a new machine in 2008, I expect the parts to be available. And that fact that I can -- quite easily -- find them online with one or two clicks . . . . who cares if it's "standard" or not?
psyd wrote:Terry, you're being sucked in a bit, I think . . . .
No, I think Terry is simply responding as I have -- that you can easily find tampers in all sizes. He just has a vested interest in it.
No enmity, Chris. No condescension, either.
Cheers,
Jason
