I'm going to upgrade in a week. Gaggia Baby or Rancilio Silvia?

[bassoon1024]

I'm looking to upgrade to a better machine in about a week. Should I go with the Baby Gaggia or the Rancilio Silvia? The price difference isn't really an issue. I just don't know which to pick!

[another_jim]

The Gaggia Baby and Classic are decent machines; but the Silvia is in a different league in terms of solidity and modifiability down the road.

[bassoon1024]

I think I'm going to go with the Silvia. I'm using a Starbucks Barista grinder with my current machine. Should I upgrade my grinder as well?

[HB]

Yes, I certainly would upgrade the grinder. An inconsistent grind exacerbates Silvia's finicky nature.

[bassoon1024]

I do see that whole latte love is selling a Baby Gaggia MDF combo for around 500

[edna713]

The baby costs $450. a Stock Silvia 600.00 that is pretty far apart.

Get a new Gaggia espresso Deluxe 299 (or less) and a used MDF grinder. it is all under $500.00

and there are good used silvias out there for $350 or so. A used silvia in good shape offers minimal gain over a new one.

dave

[bassoon1024]

Another question...different machine though. Has anyone had any experience with the Francis Francis X5? Or am I still better off with the Silvia?

[Niko]

The only X5 worth looking at is the one made by BMW...it does everything except coffee.
If I were you, I'd get a used Silvia (around $275) and an excellent grinder. Go for a new MACAP or a used Mazzer (since they have 9 lives).
...and before anybody says "a used Silvia for only 275?!"...yes, I've seen a boatload of them in the recent past in my local craigslist ads.

And for the record, I actually had a FrancisFrancis! X5 for 30 days a while back. I knew I was going to return it but I wanted to see what one is like and besides, the place had a 30 day return window no questions asked (it wasn't WLL, I wouldn't do that to them). In a nutshell, I would've kept it for the $135 spent on it but it wasn't even worth that. And yes, the machine was priced that low because nobody was buying it! It was the last one on the shelf and I felt sorry for it...

[boar_d_laze]

You find a blend you like, but: Roasts are inconsistent. Beans age. Grinds are affected by humidity. Even if your temperature control, dosing, and tamping is consistently perfect, you get variety in the cup. You want to keep that variety within the "good" range, but will settle for "acceptable." Of the two machines (currently) at issue, Silvia is stronger at helping you diagnose problems you can solve with your mad Barista skills. It's also better at helping you develop those skills. Boy oh boy are these important!

Even with experience and good technique, both machines are subject to a wild temperature swings. The hot solution seems to be PID. Advantage Silvia, for which (whom?) PID control is so effective, well documented and widely marketed. It's another step forward for developing technique; makes changing blends and roasts one hell of a lot more convenient (a k a "fun").

You learn a lot by examining other people's opinions; going beyond merely discounting the enthusiasm people have for their own choices. A large group of people feel Silvia is the bottom line for "real espresso," who, tellingly, have moved on to seriously expensive machines. Read the Alexia bench review here on HB. There's a lot of inferential information there about Silvia. Since your budget seems to include some flexibility you might even want to consider the Alexia itself. Moving in the lower priced direction, I've read good things about the Le'Lit relative to the Gaggias and even to the Rocky. I'm unqualified to comment, but you might want to investigate.

The law of diminishing returns is not an important factor in this market segment. That is, you get a lot of performance for each additional dollar wisely spent. Returning to the Alexia review, I'd be interested in reading what Jeff and Dan have to to say about a head to head comparison between Silvia and Alexia with and without PID. I'd guess the distinctions in thermal mass, "thermo-siphoning," and pre-infusion would make a HUGE cup to cup difference.

If entertaining and steam are priorities, you want to pursue an alternative inquiry into something like the Bezzera 20 series. Neither of your expressed choices likes to be driven hard; both take eternities to assemble multiple milk drinks. You don't appreciate what a drag this is until doing it for the second time. "Honeymoon over."

Buying used isn't for everyone. Only you can decide if the money saved is worth the loss of protection you get with a warranty and a complaisant retailer. How much is, "Just bring it back and grab another box" worth to you? What's the value of knowing you're not buying a damaged machine? Of course modifying will void any warranty, unless you buy from someone who will both mod and guarantee a new machine. In the case of Silvia, it's about $750 which is roughly $150 over retail. IMHO, worth it. If you're interested, follow the links from Chris Coffee's Silvia page.

The CW (conventional wisdom) on grinders follows two paths. One is grinder price ought to equal roughly a third of the machine's. The other is that once the machine is sufficiently sensitive to detect the differences in grinders, get the best grinder you can afford. FWIW, I subscribe to the second. An important consideration is whether you'll be using the grinder for other types of coffee besides espresso. If so "stepped" grinders are a lot easier to adjust then their stepless brethren. I'm very happy with my Pasquini Moka (rebadged Anfim), but think it's normally overpriced compared to the competition. Otherwise, it's the usual suspects -- Mazzer, Macap, La Cimbali. All good choices. Read the group grinder review, if you haven't already. I've had enough experience with the La Cimbali Junior to know that as a (pure) espresso grinder it spanks the Moka.

Anyway, good luck on your journey. I hope you enjoy it as much as you'll enjoy making and drinking the coffee.
Rich

[jesawdy]

Returning to the Alexia review, I'd be interested in reading what Jeff and Dan have to to say about a head to head comparison between Silvia and Alexia with and without PID. I'd guess the distinctions in thermal mass, "thermo-siphoning," and pre-infusion would make a HUGE cup to cup difference.

I'm not trying to upsell the OP, but to respond to your question.....

My Silvia is not stock, but (bearing in mind this is subjective, and not a double blind study), I think the stock Alexia was consistently easier to get a nice shot from in comparison to the Silvia. My personal opinion is that the gicleur and preinfusion have the most to do with making the Alexia pull shots with ease. It's hard to gauge how a complete newbie would fare after you've been doing it for a bit, but I think they would have a hard time messing it up.

In a bit of pseudo-blind study of the PID Silvia vs PID Alexia, I'd say the machines are neck and neck on taste. But this was also done with painstakingly handled shot builds; weighed, dosed, distributed, WDT, etc and with a limited set of coffees. That said, I've also seen more meltdown shots on Silvia than on Alexia.

I think that Silvia is a good machine. If I had not gotten into reading and posting here on HB, I would be more than glad to stay with Silvia on my counter for a long time. My experience with Alexia gives me some reason to pause. It's new $600 price tag gives even more reason for pause, but it's still a big jump in cost to get an Alexia.

All that said, I had a perfectly good shot of Intelly Kid-O from a Starbuck's Barista machine (made by Saeco) this morning while visiting my brother.