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How warm do you like your espresso cups?

Beginner or pro barista, all are invited to share.

How warm do you like your espresso cups?

Very hot
6
7%
Hot
41
48%
Warm
36
42%
Room temperature
0
No votes
Don't care
1
1%
 
Total votes : 84

Link to "How warm do you like your espresso cups?"by HB on Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:19 pm

Does cup temperature affect espresso taste? got me thinking about how little attention I give to the cup preparation. In an ideal situation, I like to warm the lower part of a thick porcelain demitasse with hot water while leaving the lip cool, but cups warmed on top of the espresso machine are usually all I have time for.

So my barista trivia poll: How warm do you like your espresso cups? Rather than get into actual cup temperatures, the poll lists descriptions. Below are elaborations on them to give you a better idea:
  • Very hot - heated by filling to the top with steam boiler water for several minutes
  • Hot - heated with steam boiler water for a minute or two
  • Warm - heated on the cup warming tray of most prosumer / semi-commercial espresso machines
  • Room temperature - barely warm to the touch is fine, the espresso will heat it anyway
While I prefer the cups warmed, room temperature cups don't bother me that much. How about you?
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Link to "How warm do you like your espresso cups?"by 'Q' on Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:03 pm

I voted "warm" but... in practice it's somewhere between "warm" and "hot."
I don't usually keep cups on top of my machine. In fact, I haven't had the top cover on my machine for awhile so that I can experiment with some things.

Oftentimes, however, I'll place the demitasse upside-down under the stream of water during the flush to heat it up. Flip it over to fill after I prep the puck and start the shot. It's toasty warm and still dry inside.
I tend to prefer a shot after it has cooled a little so shots pulled into cold'ish cups don't usually bother me.
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Sorta' like a tea ceremony with luke warm tea...?!

Link to "How warm do you like your espresso cups?"by alsterlingcafe on Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:31 pm

This is one of my HOT BUTTONS....... :lol:

For me, cold or luke warm coffee serving-ware affects the whole experience to the extreme negative. Flavor, in my opinion, does not stand alone as the only issue when the coffee is served in cold containers. Obviously, too hot and the flavor components are killed off. But if I want espresso served anything less than hot, I'll be starting out with the intention of making an iced drink. I've never been satisfied with the warming area on most machines, and almost always use a hot water soak to rinse from the machine tap.
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Link to "How warm do you like your espresso cups?"by Spresso_Bean on Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:16 pm

Usually I just let the cups sit on the warming tray above the boiler while the machine heats up for about an hour, so I voted warm. If I use the same cup for the next shots, I'll wash the cup and then heat it with boiler water while grinding and tamping. I don't know why but I also keep my glass Pavinas on the tray, but they keep the coffee hotter than I like it without even heating the cups. I guess it's more to keep them all in one place. I've seen others mention the same thing about the Bodum double walled cups, and I rarely use them for straight shots anymore. They do look really nice, though.
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Link to "How warm do you like your espresso cups?"by jrfuda on Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:36 pm

I like my cups hot (probably would be classified as very hot for some, but I vote "hot"). I often nuke my drip coffee cups prior to pouring coffee in them- or in the absence of a microwave - fill them with hot tap water while the coffee brews. My two favorite drip cups, both of which are both large on volume and very thick, are serious heat sinks if not warmed-up and will cool a cup of coffee down to luke warm in less than a minute if they're not pre-heated.

Espresso/Cap cups will get the machine top warming and sit with hot water from the machine in them until just before a pull.
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Link to "How warm do you like your espresso cups?"by cannonfodder on Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:57 pm

I will say hot, but I do not flush water into the cups. The cup warmer on my A3 gets the cups quite hot on its own, around 150F if I remember correctly. When using the lever machine, I will fill my demi about half full of water and let it sit while I prepare my portafilter. When making a cappa, I put around 2 ounces of water in cup to preheat it (assuming they are starting from room temperature).

If the cups are blazing hot, I do not like it. I think the cup needs to be hot enough to not shock the espresso when pulled into the cup but cool enough to cool the drink to a sip-able temperature 20 seconds after the shot is pulled. I don't want to burn my lips or tongue but I don't want the shot sitting very long before I consume it. I have been known to gulp a shot the second it finishes the pull just to drink a 100% crema shot. It is an interesting taste sensation but I cannot taste anything for another 2 days because I boiled my taste buds.
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Link to "How warm do you like your espresso cups?"by HB on Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:11 am

cannonfodder wrote:I think the cup needs to be hot enough to not shock the espresso when pulled into the cup but cool enough to cool the drink to a sip-able temperature 20 seconds after the shot is pulled.

I'm curious: At what temperature difference does the espresso get "shocked"? I've noticed it with hot fresh brewed tea poured over ice (cloudy and bitter), but never noticed it for espressos poured into a room temperature cup.

PS: Mark at Counter Counter Culture is into iced Americanos, I'll ask him to weigh in on the necessary wait time before pouring the espresso into his ice water filled Bodum mug...
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Link to "How warm do you like your espresso cups?"by jesawdy on Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:43 am

I voted 'Hot'. I always preheat my cups with brew water while I grind and build my shot. If I am going to make a pair of cappuccinos, they get filled with water and I hit the "beverage" button on the microwave for two drinks. For Americanos, a full cup, "beverage" button, dump about half the water and pull the shot on top. For Bodum double walls, I never heat them and they sit 'cold' in the cupboard.

If I make a press pot, I try to use any left over kettle water to warm my cup while the coffee steeps. At work, I use the hot water tap on the drip brewer to preheat my coffee mug (though I never drink the office coffee :roll: ).

I can't speak to "shocking" in a room temperature cup (although I think I've tasted it by adding espresso to milkshakes), and I don't care for a 'very hot' cup. I do tend to take my time drinking most beverages, so I like to extend that time a bit by not having the cup sink the heat from the beverage.

I've seen 5 minutes banted about as the recommended time for consuming a cup of coffee. No problem on the 'spro, but for a press pot or even an Americano, that's a little short for me.
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Link to "How warm do you like your espresso cups?"by jesawdy on Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:43 am

HB wrote:PS: Mark at Counter Counter Culture is into iced Americanos, I'll ask him to weigh in on the necessary wait time before pouring the espresso into his ice water filled Bodum mug...

Hmmm, do share.
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Link to "How warm do you like your espresso cups?"by cannonfodder on Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:11 am

HB wrote:I'm curious: At what temperature difference does the espresso get "shocked"? I've noticed it with hot fresh brewed tea poured over ice (cloudy and bitter), but never noticed it for espressos poured into a room temperature cup.

PS: Mark at Counter Counter Culture is into iced Americanos, I'll ask him to weigh in on the necessary wait time before pouring the espresso into his ice water filled Bodum mug...


Good question and one I cannot answer. I have simply noticed a difference in the flavor/texture of the drink. When the cup is warm to the touch or hotter I think there is a difference. The cup gets a bitter twinge in the finish and the mouth feel is thinner when the cup is room temperature or cooler. I also must point out that I have never tried any kind of blind cupping or study to prove it, just an observation I have made over time.

During the summer, I make iced coffee/mochas using espresso. When I prepare my shot, I pull it into a slightly warmed cup allowing the shot to run down the side of the glass to gently cool the shot. Then I add some sugar to a few ounces of milk, hit it with the frothing wand to slightly warm the milk and dissolve the sugar (maybe 90-100F?). Then that goes into the shot, then cold milk, then ice. I think I get a better drink. When I pull the shot over ice, it gets bitter and astringent. Then again, I may be full of it and if I were to blind cup two drinks made my way and pulled into ice I may not be able to pick out which is which, but I think I could. It is like tempering your eggs when making a hollandaise or custard but in reverse. I start with a hot item and slowly lower the temperature.
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Link to "How warm do you like your espresso cups?"by Celebrian on Mon Dec 31, 2007 3:04 am

(Hi everyone, by the way, I'm new around here :) )

I chose 'hot'.
One of my pet hates is cold coffee. I find that room temperature cups tend to go colder quicker than hot cups (obviously). At work I store cups on the top of our machine, and that heats them up to a pretty decent temperature. At home, my domestic machine doesn't get hot enough, so i warm it with hot water before preparing the shot.
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Link to "How warm do you like your espresso cups?"by woodchuck on Mon Dec 31, 2007 9:53 am

I leave my cups on the warming tray of the VII. I find that is just perfect for me. If I pull a cup from the cabinet then I'll preheat with boiler water first ... Ian
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Link to "How warm do you like your espresso cups?"by miKe mcKoffee on Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:59 am

Voted hot but it's really between the given choices of warm and hot. Cups pre-heated on top of machine (both at home on Bricoletta and Kafe on Linea) then brew temp hot water heated not steam boiler heated during build. Cups quickly wiped dry before shot pulled into them.
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Link to "How warm do you like your espresso cups?"by Cathi on Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:29 pm

Hot gets my vote. It became part of my routine when preparing coffee to pre-warm cup and carafe, so for some reason, I continued when pulling shots. The exception would be iced latte's or Americano's. I don't warm the cups then.
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Link to "How warm do you like your espresso cups?"by RapidCoffee on Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:40 pm

Voted hot, since I always flush hot water into the cup it prior to pulling a shot. But a couple ounces of hot water in a thick porcelain cup (typically brew water from the HX flush, not steam boiler water from the hot water tap) probably makes it no hotter than the cup warmer.
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Link to "How warm do you like your espresso cups?"by MarkO on Mon Dec 31, 2007 3:49 pm

Hey all,

Great discussion. For years, while living in DC, the iced americano as prepared by the uber-baristas at murky coffee was my go-to daily drink from March to October. In the colder months, I prefer hot drinks, but since moving to the slightly more balmy North Carolina, I find myself drinking more iced americanos than ever before, even in winter.

Dan has seen me make quite a few of these drinks here in Durham, and I actually experiment with technique quite a bit. I fluctuate between a) adding freshly pulled espresso to a mug of ice water and b) adding espresso to cool water and then adding ice. I've had pretty good success with both methods, and both retain crema and sweetness pretty well. Most of the time, however, I'm more focused on improving my dosing and tamping than anything else. You have to get those techniques right before anything even matters at all.

I must confess to have never measured the temperature of the pre-shot water; nor have I timed how long I let the water stand before adding espresso. Sounds like a good experiment for our Friday morning group, Dan!

Interestingly, in another forum, Sandy Hon of Java Jazz wrote the following in this subject (link):

I actually put together a blind tasting for a couple of my Baristas a couple of weeks ago. The Baristas - one a newbie and the other, a seasoned one.

I prepared the iced drinks like this:

In a tall glass [ingredients added from left to right]

A: cold milk, espresso, (swirl) add ice, swirl.
B: ice, espresso, milk, stir.

Both of them chose A.

They both thought there was a huge difference in flavor. The newbie was actually taken back at the difference.


Take care and happy new year!

Mark
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Link to "How warm do you like your espresso cups?"by narc on Tue Jan 01, 2008 12:49 pm

Warm. Why? Not really sure. Cups have always sat on the warming tray. I guess habit & to eliminate another variable assuming cup temp effects taste.. Have not every really done a side-by-side taste test of a cold, warm or hot cup. If cup temp effects taste does warmer temp benefit a certain characteristic of the cup?
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Link to "How warm do you like your espresso cups?"by Psyd on Tue Jan 01, 2008 4:54 pm

I'd guess hot, but that's a fairly relative term. I pull my flushes into the cups before the shots, and a quick wipe and dry before they get espresso pulled into them. With the Silvia at my GF's place, I fill 'em half way, and stick 'em in the nuker till its very hot, and let 'em sit during the entire prep period. By the time they get espresso into 'em they're just hot*.


*'Hot' is past warm but before uncomfortable. 'Very hot' is uncomfortable. I'd call the transition between the two something like 150F? My cups are probably right at that point.
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Link to "How warm do you like your espresso cups?"by zin1953 on Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:39 am

I voted "warm," but like many here, it's probably between warm and hot.

On one machine -- my La Val -- I keep four Frabosk double-walled stainless espresso and four Frabosk double-walled stainless cappuccino cups, and saucers, on the warming tray. The timer switches on at 5:00 am, so when I stumble downstairs around 6:00, both the machine and the cups are ready to go.

On my old Gaggia (which I moved from the house to my office), it never stays on long enough to warm up my Bodum Pavona espresso and latte glasses, so I'd pre-heat them a bit, but if I didn't, it wouldn't bother me that much. We'll see what happens when my "new" (used) machine shows up in my office this week . . .

Cheers,
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Link to "How warm do you like your espresso cups?"by quiltmaster on Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:53 am

Warm- very warm. I like the cups warm to the touch but comfortable to caress. Never thought very much about how cup temp effects taste.... :oops:
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