How to make cafe cremas

[KarlSchneider]

As an aside, how do you make your cafe cremas (ie. grind, tamp, extraction time)? I have been experimenting without the greatest success (Rocky grinder though).

George

George,

I like my morning cafe crema's a great deal. First of all I grind the beans less fine than for espresso. My Mazzer Mini has a dial with 10 "settings' and I reduce the grind by 1 number/10% (for Mazzer owners, from "6" opposite 6 o'clock up to 7). I put 2 level scoops (ca. 7 g. each) in the grinder. I use a double espresso filter basket and fill a cappuccino cup (ca. 6 oz.±) I use all kinds of beans for this not just espresso blends. In fact many beans that do not make good espresso make fine cafe crema's.

KS

[gpsd]

KSchneider,

Thanks for the link.

And re: the cafe crema, do you tamp at approx. 30lbs as well? I've tried lowering the tamp pressure with mixed results.

George

[KarlSchneider]

And re: the cafe crema, do you tamp at approx. 30lbs as well? I've tried lowering the tamp pressure with mixed results.

Hi George,

Yes I do tamp pretty close to the 30# level. I do not "measure" this but use the same tamp as for espresso. I do use a double spout pf and like the subtle pattern I get in the crema. I also use a La Marzocco double basket (the "true" LM with ridge) because it holds more coffee.

KS

[gpsd]

KSchneider,

Thanks, that was helpful.

On the topic of beans, which did you find produced the smoothest and richest cafe cremas? I have been trying Lavazza'a arabica beans.


George

[KarlSchneider]

On the topic of beans, which did you find produced the smoothest and richest cafe cremas? I have been trying Lavazza'a arabica beans.

Hi George,

This is an intriguing question. I actually find that I can use and enjoy a wider range of beans in cafe crema than I can in espresso. I just drank a cup made with Sweet Maria's Classic Italian Espresso roasted dark enough that the beans are oily (a full minute into second crack). It is about as smooth and rich as one can get. It has a sweetness and chocolate flavor with full body and full range flavor (like a Rhone, if you know wine).

I actually do two roasts per week -- one for espresso and one for cafe crema. I use either espresso blends or selected SO beans for espresso (Yemen, some Ethopians, some Brazil's). These I roast at least a minute into second crack / dark French Roast. For cafe crema I use things I do not like as espresso -- Costa Ricans, Aged Sumatra Lintong, Sulawesi, Eth. Harar & Yirgcheffe. I roast these less dark, to the start of second crack / light French.

Both espresso roasts and the others work well in cafe crema but the lighter roasts do not work as espresso -- to my taste.

Because I roast my own I have the luxury of always having fresh beans -- never more than 7 days old. This is probably no small factor.

KS

[Abe Carmeli]

Chuck,

What is your extraction time for that brew and how does it taste without sugar? Do you add milk to it at all or drink it black?

[KarlSchneider]

Chuck,

What is your extraction time for that brew and how does it taste without sugar? Do you add milk to it at all or drink it black?

Hi Abe,

The extraction with double spout pf is ca. 35-40 sec. I drink these black. I find them to have a subtly different flavor from Americano's in that the flavors are more rounded. I get a complete flavor profile. The flavors in Americano's seem more angular -- like Left Bank Bordeaux. My cafe crema is closer to Burgundy (Volnay to be precise).

Am about to roast Java Government Estate Blawan for the next week.

[mrosco]

Merged with this thread by moderator...

I thought about posting this on CG but figured I'd give it a whirl here. With the holidays here I'm doing my quarterly entertaining which means I have people over that don't drink espresso or espresso based drinks (namely my in-laws). I have a 10 year old krups drip coffee maker in the basement I keep around for these "special" occasions. My question is how do I make cafe crema with my Bricc? Is it as simple as a courser grind lightly tamped? Or am I just missing something?

While cleaning the cob webs off the old drip machine (literally) I started thinking why anyone would drink drip coffee. I've come to view it as the "light beer" of coffees even beneath decaf (sorry to decaf and light beer drinkers). Do any of you drink drip coffee with any regularity or is it just a back up when nothing else is available? Just curious.

Thanks

Michael

[Mark08859]

You don't add water as with an Americano. At its simplest, a Cafe Crema is simply running 6 - 8 ounces of water through the puck in your espresso machine. It is a standard size cup of coffee that has been pressure brewed with a nice crema layer on top. It is very popular and considered superior to drip or French Press. Of course, taste is subjective. Just have some fun with the process.

Some folks don't change anything in their normal espresso preparation and just run more water through the puck. Some will go to a coarser grind. Others may change the dosage of coffee so it isn't as strong. One could do a combo change in grind or dose.

I don't drink regular coffee at all, including a Cafe Crema. When experimenting for Cafe Crema, I had my regular coffee drinking friends try it and provide feedback. I'd suggest you do the same. I use a super-auto for that purpose (would take forever on my lever machine) and now know to reduce the amount of coffee so it isn't as strong tasting to them.

Good luck.

[miKe mcKoffee]

Funny, I just today ordered a aftermarket LM PF so I could use the triple basket for larger Cafe' Cremas when entertaining! (don't try them naked, trust me!)

With the LM double basket I use a coarse grind, light tamp and target about 8oz in about 30sec. Crema will turn quite blonded BTW. The Bricoletta handles it quite nicely. If you're machine drops temp too much on that much volume you might try a modified "Cafe Crema Americano", what I did previously with Silvia. Same double LM but not as coarse targeting 4oz pull plus 4oz hot water. All amounts and volumes more or less to taste!

Oh, I don't usually use espresso blends for Cafe' Cremas. Single Origins. Drinking a right nice Mexican Alta Pluma Miel Cafe Crema as I type. (had to go make one you to verify) Actually made both Cafe Crema and modified Cafe Crema Americano. The later 'cuz I didn't grind coarse enough the first try! Very similar in the cup.

[HB]

At its simplest, a Cafe Crema is simply running 6 - 8 ounces of water through the puck in your espresso machine.

I've never made them (and rarely make Americanos). What is the desired pressure for the extraction, i.e., is it less than an espresso?

[budley]

Hi All,

This is my virginal post so please, treat me gently ! I'm a barista in Sydney OZ, and I was wondering about the history of this drink, Cafe Crema. I remember back in the 80's most places would make a long black using this technique, continuing the extraction through the puck until it filled an 8 ounce cup, then the style changed and cafe's starting making long blacks Americano style. I guess baristi saw the Cafe Crema approach as being an enormously over extracted espresso. Can anyone explain the reasoning behind the resurgence of this extraction style, and what favourable qualities that it adds to the cup. As far as I know, the Cafe Crema is not served in Australia at all, the Americano is still the way we approach our long black coffee.
BTW I only recently stumbled across this site and I must say hat's off to all of you, very informative and user friendly.

Budley.

[malachi]

My memory is that the Cafe Crema is most common in the areas of Switzerland and Austria that border Italy and in the Italian section along that border.

I don't think there truly is a resurgence of this drink - some people just like it.

While it's personally not to my taste, in experimentation we determined that it was really, really important to change grind and dose (as opposed to just running a ton of water through your normal espresso grind/dose). If you don't make this change the results will likely be very, very harsh (sharp and heavily alkaloid).

[mrosco]

In the "Resource" section under "Getting Started" is a link called the "Espresso Guide". It gives a brief history of espresso and how the term was coined and what the drink is today.

[malachi]

Oh... and given the original question (as opposed to the topic title) I'd tend to suggest just making Americanos.

[jrtatl]

When I make them (rarely) I shoot for 6 oz in 30 sec. This, of course, means that the grind must be coarser than for a normal shot. If you use the same grind as for a normal shot, you will just end up with 6 oz of overextracted swill. To get it right will likely require a lot of time and coffee dialing in the grinder.

When done properly, a cafe crema is a superb drink; one that I sometimes prefer to an americano. Problem is: I can't make them well. So I don't. I just make americanos.


Cheers,

Jeremy

[Fr. John]

...merged with thread on similar topic by moderator...



I started a thread over at CG in the regular coffee forum. Basically it is plea for help with a regular cup of coffee as opposed to an espresso. I get thirsty for regular coffee with cream. Though an Americano fills the bill it's not quite what I'm looking for, i.e. a full bodied full flavored cup of rich coffee that can take cream well. My suspicion is that it's my fault and not necessarily the Americano (beans, brew, personal foibles). I suspect that I'm asking too much from my dark roasted espresso beans.

That aside (unless someone wants to point out possible problems), someone ever there mentioned cafe crema. After looking at the short blurb on 1st Lines site about this (pretty cursory), I'm interested to know more and if anyone here has practiced this?

[jesawdy]

For my tastes, I find an Americano in the 4-6 oz total volume range with a douple espresso is quite yummy, and with a tad of cream too. When you order out an Americano, they tend to be more dilute than that.

I am typically at a 1:1 ratio or 3:2 ratio of water to espresso.

[Dogshot]

Inspired largely by this thread, and Karl's customary eloquence, I decided to try making a cafe crema instead of an Americano this afternoon. It was a delicious experience, and not very difficult.

With the way I grind, I find that a half-turn on the Macap M4 produces roughly .3oz more espresso, so I opened the grinder a full 4 turns past my usual setting for espresso, in the hope of getting somewhere around 5oz (I'm sure it is not linear when making large changes to grind). What I found is that while 17gm of my blend fits nicely in the basket for espresso, when ground more coarsely for cafe crema, it was way too much. I tapped once to updose, and then swept off probably close to 2gm of coffee, so 15gm is probably a better starting point.

The shot took about 20, maybe 22 seconds to brew before blonding, which happened very quickly. As with espresso, I cut the shot once blonding began, and ended with something around 3.5oz, which is about the volume I make for an Americano. The resulting cafe crema was really good, and very different from both espresso and Americano. Before reading this thread, I assumed that a cafe crema would taste like a very poorly brewed espresso, like what you might get from a pbtc, but there was nothing harsh, bitter, or over-extracted about the result. I noticed that brew pressure after preinfusion was just over 8 bar, and fell slightly during the shot.

Next time I will try grinding a bit coarser and using a little less coffee to extend the shot out to 4.5oz, but I doubt I would want to get a beverage much larger than that. What I would really like to know is if the slightly lower (and decreasing) brew pressure is appropriate, or if I should be trying to achieve espresso-level brew pressures.

Any more tips on making a great cafe crema would be appreciated

Mark

[lparsons21]

I love Cafe Cremas, it is my 'go to' drink!

The way I do mine is coarsen the grind and tamp just a tad less than for espresso. I look for a 25 second, 6 oz cup from it.

On my Super Jolly, I coarsen about 3/4 of the distance between numbers on the dial. Usually I have to twiddle that a bit to get exactly what I want, but I've found as long as the pour is not over 30 seconds, I still have a cup that I like.