How much would you pay for mint '71 Olympia Express Cremina?

[Maarten]

Hi Dan,

I bought all my machines ranging from extremely cheap to ridiculously cheap on a Dutch website called 'marktplaats.nl' (means market place). It's much better than Ebay (although Ebay bought it last year) because there is no end time. But coffee is becoming more popular in the Netherlands, and I think the time of The-Absurd-Mega-Deals is over. There's loads of Krups's and Delonghi's and the horrible Senseo's and Gustino's (coffeepad machines. Chemically enhanced to produce a sort of bubbly crema and a hint of the aroma of real coffee, but with the taste of soaked cardboard. A very clear case of mass hysteria IMHO).

In January, I decided not to buy any more espresso machines. Enough is enough. I managed to stay clean for three months. Alas I forgot about the automatic search I put on Ebay. An occasional model train would arrive in my inbox, and life was sweet. 'Till lightning struck and there was an opportunity to buy this vintage Olympia right away.

Now I have to tell you I didn't give in right away. But last year there was an Olympia for sale in the Netherlands. I had just bought my Bezzera BZ40P, and was trying to get repair parts directly from Bezzera in Italy and from Procon in Ireland (rotary pump). Which is another story. But at the time I just wasn't that eager to buy it. I called my friend Piet, who is 'De Espressomonteur'(= Espresso Repair Man), and told him about the Olympia and we agreed 150 euro would be a good price. STUPID! Of course he didn't get it, and I've been having dreams about letting this Olympia go ever since.

So when this vintage Olympia came up it took me about 15 minutes to decide (I DID call my girl friend to ask her opinion, and she agreed!) and bought it directly. I'm not going to tell you the price right away, but I'm curious about what you people would spend on a DROP DEAD GORGEOUS MACHINE like this.

So here's the question of the week: How much would you spend on a mint '71 Olympia Express Cremina?

In the meantime, I can tell you a bit about the history of this machine. Apparently, the seller's grandfather lived in Munich, Germany and was a man of the world. He had a posh villa where he used to entertain guests in his wine cellar. As a connoisseur, he would only buy the best. So he bought an Olympia on a trip to Switzerland. Luckily for me, his wine cellar and hard liquor collection where sufficient for his guests, and the Olympia just stood there as decoration and was hardly ever used.

Update on 'my-first-ever-home-roasted-coffee' (or 'smoke-gets-in-your-eyes')
I tossed two half cups of 'Washed Panama Arabica Boquete Strictly Hard Bean Cafe Sitton' (now, that's a mouth full!) in the I-roast and chose program 2 (dark roast). (You can program the I-roast II in 5 steps, but since I'm a rookie, I just chose 'dark roast'.)
Smelling green beans, pouring them into a roaster, and seeing them turn dark brown while hearing them crack twice is a very special experience, I must say. I was mesmerized. After I set the I-roast to 'cool' sequence, I looked up, and saw that the kitchen and living room looked foggy. The smell of coffee roasting is not what you'd expect, but strangely enough you'll remember it right away. I put my roast in an old Illy can to de-gas, and now open it every hour or so to smell the freshly roasted beans. The funny thing is, the scent develops! From the typical just-roasted-green-bean smell, in a few hours you'll smell a very potent espresso! My brother has owned an I-roast for a while and the samples he sent me where excellent, but I wouldn't be surprised if my own first batch will taste like 'Senseo on steroids'. Hmmmm....I'll let you know.

That's all for now.
Maarten

[KarlSchneider]

Hi Maarten,

First of all, beautiful graphic! Now if you could do a similar one with a violin bow or an artist's paint brush instead of the wrench ...

I strongly encourage you to try your new roasts from the beginning and not wait for the peak. I usually try mine at 6 hours after roast. Yes they will be undeveloped but you will get to study and learn the maturing curve from direct experience. It is great fun. My experience is that there is a 2-3 day rise in quality and then a 3-4 day peak window and then a significant drop in quality at day 7 and a relatively gradual decline thereafter.

We all would love to see pics of your machines.

KS

[Maarten]

Hi Carl,

I read your thread on the Konas. Sorry to hear the espressos where disappointing.
I roasted the Panama, and it was very good. Roasted some Bonga Wild Forest Ethiopia and it was excellent.
Both on the default dark roast setting of the I-roast 2, but not letting the roast finish. I started cooling right at the end of 2nd crack.
I must admit, I didn't give both coffees much time to develop (about a day). But both where very good. Loads of crema and no bitters or sours. Very full and distinct flavours, but sweet and round. Then roasted some more Panama, but gave it to my brother. Received some green Brazil Bahia and some Tarazzu Panthera in return though. Tonight, I roasted some Indian monsooned Malabar AA on the 'light roast' default. I will try it tomorrow, but I'm afraid the I-roast batches don't last for three days...This morning I had three double ristretto's my family drank the rest of my batches. (They seem to love my coffee, but I must admit I give them a very hard stare when they drink it ) I can get Kona in the Netherlands from Ivo van der Putten @ http://www.ongebrand.nl. It doesn't come cheap, but after seeing a George Howell presentation in Amsterdam (he compares it to good wine) even Kopi Luwak isn't that expensive... Maybe I'll buy some. Of course I'll update you on my findings then.

An espresso cup with a violin bow will be quite difficult, I'm afraid...Thanks for the compliment though.
I'll post some pics of the more interesting machines (that would be the 60's Europiccola, The Domobar and the Bezzera. The Carimali grinder is also very beautiful (it has to grow on you though ). And of course some more of the Olympia, including the original accessories. Yep, I have the original tamper and brown plastic knock box and the steel Olympia measuring spoon. Alas no original funnel and pitcher, but I wonder if they where included at that time.

But since this thread really is about how much for a mint Cremina '71: what would you consider a right price (assuming you'd want one, had the money, where crazy enough etcetera)?

[KarlSchneider]

Hey Maarten,

What would I pay? Well I was one who bid up a used Cremina to over $900. And, this was a machine of unknown condition. The seller would not respond to my questions.

I happen to be one who is "engineeringly challenged" and thus I know that I could not do what Steve Robinson has done with his Cremina. Indeed he encouraged me and offered support. I am, nonetheless, glad I lost that bidding war. I have not entered another. I have as much "Cremina envy" as anyone on this list. And, I hope to have one some day.

But to tell the truth I wish there was a Steve Robinson who would re-build an Elektra. I am extremely happy with mine. I believe it makes absolutely great espresso. But the majority of readers on this forum are "engineers" and they will love your graphic with the wrench. It could not distill the essence of this site better. The aesthetic dimension of espresso is much more difficult to grasp. Such is the nature of Being as far as I have been able to discern. But most retreat to the technically certain. Replacing gaskets is more certain than good Kona espresso.

I would love to see here a similar Elektra obsession as there is for the Cremina. I believe the Elektra has comparable pedigree. But for now the passion is on the Cremina. And, I want one too.

Show us pictures of your other machines.

KS

[srobinson]

I'll play along. For a 71, I would pay about 200-250 euros. Some of these earlier models have parts which are not interchangeable with the newer runs, thus my lower price. They also tend to have that nasty little asbestos problem on the boiler. I would also carefully inspect anything called mint. Tends to be a very over used word in machine advertisements. Pitted chrome is not mint, rusted screws are not mint, having to rewire is not mint, a pressurestat that is hard to adjust is not mint. Of course some of these yard sale finds have me always hoping to find one for next to nothing. I spent a free day in Zurich on my last trip over at the street market just hoping to find one next to nothing.

[Maarten]

Now, come on, Steve! You especially went hunting for a Cremina in Zurich and you would only pay $200? That's a very technocratic approach. Where's the passion? Do you run into Creminas weekly? (I know you have two right now. Please send one of them back before it's too late! "Can a man really OD on Creminas?" )
Heck, my time spent reading warning mails about "PIKO Olympia Express. Limitierte Auflage" (the trains) on Ebay was worth more than $200! I wouldn't be surprised to be able to sell the original tamper, knockbox and metal scoop for $200! I know people who would give $200 for a flake of asbestos of a '71! (well, actually that's not true ... ).
You've seen the pictures in the LMWDP thread (this question of this thread was originally placed behind it, but got moderated into this separate thread). This machine == mint. Minty mint!

But here's an interesting thing: personally, I would be inclined to pay more for an old, original machine in excellent condition. Because it's very, very rare. And thus it's something that you couldn't buy outside this 'window of opportunity' if you had all the money in the world.
Well, that's a bit strong...Eh, any Omani forum members?

If you where offered to buy a vintage 1971 Porsche 911 (mint, of course!), would you say: "Well, if I drive it and it breaks down, spares will be hard to get. And there's also no airbags. I think I need a discount on that."?

[Maarten]

Hi Karl,

Rest assured Elektra is in my hall of fame too. I really like your machine with the blue glass on top. I know Murano glass, I once had some sweets made of it (for decoration only ). Very classy. My friend Piet (the 'espressomonteur' I did the logo for) called me a while ago, saying: "There's a lady bringing in an original lever Elektra for service! Heck, I'd almost repair that for free!").
Alas I never ran into one. A cheap one, that is...
I will post more photos when I find some time. But next week will be very busy.

[KarlSchneider]

Hi Maarten,

Truth be told I am able to imagine thinking the Cremina makes even better espresso than my Elektra. But I seriously doubt I will ever think the Cremina is aesthetically preferable as a tool. There is something classical about an Elektra with Les' wooden handles and the blue Murano glass ball. I am not inclined in genreal towards the retro yet I like the appearance of Niccolo Amati on the counter.

Do not fret about Steve's pricing. He is a frugal shopper, that's all.

KS

[srobinson]

Maarten, just trying to get a rise out of you. You will notice that I was not trying to be an ugly American and did quote in euros...that would have had my top estimate at $300. I get asked these questions all the time and I think the right answer is that the right price is whatever you are willing to pay for it. The 67s seem to be going from $450-$750 range. Of course there are these free ones that keep popping up that has to bring the value down.

The only thing that I caution guys on the early ones are 1) the asbestos boiler and 2) the availability of all the parts. I would not expect airbags on a vintage Porsche, but if the heat exchangers rust out, I want to make sure that I can find a replacement set. My comment was that based on the increasing prices that people are paying for these machines, I would want to ensure that should a part fail, that I could find a replacement for them. Otherwise they make very expensive paperweights.

As a homework assignment, why don't you contact the factory and see if all these parts to the early 67s and the early Zabar machines are available from the factory. Another good question would be whether a new boiler could be retro-fit on one of these older machines. I would love to see an internal shot of yours....outside looks great.