HotTop digital & programmable profiles - Page 5

[Cafesp]

Glad to hear that, CoffeeOwl, then a newbie can help another newbie in exchanging profiles & experience

Cafesp

[Dieter01]

I've taken some notes on paper while roasting with the Hottop P but never got around to making a spreadsheet. Made an attempt at that today. There are a few things I will likely change but the basics are there. If anyone would like to have a go the following link is valid for 7 days (sorry, didn't have access to a more proper upload at present).

Its in Excel 2007, hope that doesn't make it difficult for some to use...

http://download.yousendit.com/BD125FED0AC95CC2

Cheers!

[Cafesp]

"Made an attempt at that today" will help many newbies happy for many daysss

Thanks Dierter01, that's very nice of you. I've already saved it for days to come,
Cafesp

[rlmerriam]

The most recent "B" sports some refinements over the earlier "B." Some of the changes are safety features, but the auto setting also has more fan speed at the two critical points, the drying phase and at the ramp up right before the first crack.

I gave up trying to get the "B" to perform like the "D" and got better roasts as a result. The manual in the early HotTop "D's" recommended a 19 minute roast time. The slower roasting produced the desired longer period between the first and second cracks, but now the fan accomplishes that. The auto setting on the "B" gives about 10 mintes to the first crack, 4 minutes to the second. I have been ejecting at the first indication of the second crack and been getting exceptional roasts.

hi i just got a b model and am wondering if u know what line voltage u had when u attained these results

[Fullsack]

hi i just got a b model and am wondering if u know what line voltage u had when u attained these results

I don't know the line voltage and roast in a few different locations. The Variac is set at 122 in the VU meter. The earlier HotTops were more sensitive to voltage. I read in an H-B thread, that the newer HotTops have a built-in voltage regulator.

The auto program in the "B" roasts at level 8. You could increase it to level 9, if you are looking for a faster roast, (watch out for scorching). In the dark ages of HotTop, you used batch size to vary roasting times. That is a good option as well. My results are based on a 225 gram batch size.

[Randy G.]

hi i just got a b model and am wondering if u know what line voltage u had when u attained these results

Here is what I do with the "B" model. Seems to work quite well.
Be aware:
* I have about 122 volts with element off and 119-120 with it on
* I roast 300 grams at a time
* I use a stainless steel mesh rear main filter instead of the stock filter. This changes the airflow compared to the stock filter. Adjust the heating element, and particularly the fan speed to get the desired results.

- Start the roaster with about 25:00 and the maximum temperature programmed and "0%" fan speed..

- Allow the "Add beans" signal beeps to take place, and wait for the roaster to reach about 250 F. Add beans at about 250 F.

-After about three minutes or so (or when it smells a bit damp or grassy) run the fan at 25% for about fifteen to thirty seconds to clear out the humidity.

- At about 325 F (or when you first start to see smoke), set the fan to 25% and leave it there.

- Allow the roast to continue, pressing a button (other than EJECT !) when you hear a beeping. After the Add beans beeping, there are two times when this may occur. See the manual for details- Page 17. If you have a very recent model and the beans have ejected early it is probably from the new safety measures. Download the updated manual from the Hottop website and refer to page 14.

- As first crack starts, set heating element to about 75%. As First become active, set heating element to about 25%. The beans will be exothermic and the temperature will continue to rise, slowly. At NO TIME should the temperature be allowed to drop. If the temperature seems to be rising too quickly, switch the fan speed to 50% or more as necessary.

- When first crack stops there should be a pause of about 60-180 seconds before second starts. This is controlled by fan speed and heating element level. If you think of the heating element as the coarse adjustment and the fan as the fine adjustment you start to get the idea. But this late in the roast you will find that smoke production is going along nicely, so you do want to maintain airflow in the roasting chamber to clear the smoke if nothing else.

- Just before second starts set the heating element back to 100% and the fan speed at 50%-75%.

- Eject when the desired level of roast is achieved. For my house blend for espresso I am going about 10-20 seconds into second.

Use this as a foundation and modify it as your needs and taste make necessary. For example, for drip I would use a smaller mass of beans and add the beans at about 275 F or so to shorten the total roast time, and eject about midway between first and second, or just as the first click or two of seconds sounds off.

[Bigtwin]

Randy, can you tell me how you made your mesh filter?

[ordo.dk]

I just ordered a Hottop KN8828 "basic" - Any of you guys who "upgraded" from P to B wanna sell the controller to me? Or if anyone have a B-controller they wanna get rid of? :D

Also, I ordered a 230V machine - I do have 230V here, but I read somewhere that it would have been better to get a 220V version to get "normal" roasting times (ie. not so long)... Any thoughts?

[Fullsack]

The "B" auto program has been all over the place on both HotTops. Sometimes the fan comes on for the drying phase and the first crack ramp-up and sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it roasts at level 8, other times at level 10. Occasionally, it switches between the two. The program is either really sophisticated or really buggy, I am not sure which.

The majority of the time I get the fan at level 3 for 30 seconds, between 2:00 and 2:30. I get the fan again at level 1, around 9 minutes, about 350 degrees, before the first crack ramp-up. Sometimes the fan increases speed at 11 and again at 13 minutes.

My best roast have been accomplished by manually doing the level 3 fan between 2:00 and 2:30, if the HotTop "forgets" and manually starting the fan at level 1, around 350 degrees, 9 minutes, if the HotTop doesn't do it on its own. The rapidity of the snaps between the first and second cracks determines where I set the fan speed in the late stages of roasting.

[Fullsack]

hi i just got a b model and am wondering if u know what line voltage u had when u attained these results

Here is what I do with the "B" model. Seems to work quite well.
Be aware:
* I have about 122 volts with element off and 119-120 with it on
* I roast 300 grams at a time
* I use a stainless steel mesh rear main filter instead of the stock filter. This changes the airflow compared to the stock filter. Adjust the heating element, and particularly the fan speed to get the desired results.

- Start the roaster with about 25:00 and the maximum temperature programmed and "0%" fan speed..

- Allow the "Add beans" signal beeps to take place, and wait for the roaster to reach about 250 F. Add beans at about 250 F.

-After about three minutes or so (or when it smells a bit damp or grassy) run the fan at 25% for about fifteen to thirty seconds to clear out the humidity.

- At about 325 F (or when you first start to see smoke), set the fan to 25% and leave it there.

- Allow the roast to continue, pressing a button (other than EJECT !) when you hear a beeping. After the Add beans beeping, there are two times when this may occur. See the manual for details- Page 17. If you have a very recent model and the beans have ejected early it is probably from the new safety measures. Download the updated manual from the Hottop website and refer to page 14.

- As first crack starts, set heating element to about 75%. As First become active, set heating element to about 25%. The beans will be exothermic and the temperature will continue to rise, slowly. At NO TIME should the temperature be allowed to drop. If the temperature seems to be rising too quickly, switch the fan speed to 50% or more as necessary.

- When first crack stops there should be a pause of about 60-180 seconds before second starts. This is controlled by fan speed and heating element level. If you think of the heating element as the coarse adjustment and the fan as the fine adjustment you start to get the idea. But this late in the roast you will find that smoke production is going along nicely, so you do want to maintain airflow in the roasting chamber to clear the smoke if nothing else.

- Just before second starts set the heating element back to 100% and the fan speed at 50%-75%.

- Eject when the desired level of roast is achieved. For my house blend for espresso I am going about 10-20 seconds into second.

Use this as a foundation and modify it as your needs and taste make necessary. For example, for drip I would use a smaller mass of beans and add the beans at about 275 F or so to shorten the total roast time, and eject about midway between first and second, or just as the first click or two of seconds sounds off.

Sounds like a good program Randy, are you waiting until 250 degrees, before adding the beans, because you are roasting 300 grams?

[Randy G.]

Randy, can you tell me how you made your mesh filter?

It is a computer fan filter such as:
http://www.google.com/products?q=...an+filter+computer

I flatten the screw countersunk corners in a vise pliers would work) and I use the standard rear filter carrier and just pull out the carbon and paper filters and replace it with the stainless filter.

With the "B" I found it extended the roast time because of the reduced back pressure, so I took a piece of soft aluminum, cut it to match the stainless filter, then punched four holes through it (about 1" holes- I don't remember the exact size) and covered about 1/2 of the filter. I think some aluminum foil covering the bottom half would work just as well.

[Randy G.]

Sounds like a good program Randy, are you waiting until 250 degrees, before adding the beans, because you are roasting 300 grams?

No. It lessens the drop in temp at the beginning, sort of giving the machine a running start, so it shortens the total roast time without scorching the beans. I see to remember that some folks were adding the beans at around 300 and 325, but I have not tried that as I like a longer, slower start than that would create..

As with all roasting profiles, I would recommend trying mine and using it as a starting point, modifying it to match your tastes, beans, and brewing method. As an example, the profile I posted above is for espresso. For drip I would use about 250 grams, and try to finish it a bit sooner and stop the roast just before second hits.

[tommy99]

Hey Randy G your profile has made a huge difference in my batches - especially the part about dropping the beans in at a higher temperature!

The only thing that I really have been unable to do is get that extended time between the first and second cracks. I've tried many different fan/heater combos (after following your lead) and first just leads into second so quick. I have the Hottop B. Is there some kind of trick to get that 60-180 second time between the cracks? I know all this is trial and error but it gets frustrating when you have to drop the beans and then try again. Should I be aiming for a certain amount of time from say the climb from 400-410 degrees, 411-420 degrees (just using those as examples)?

I mean I like the improvement in my batches using your method but I really want to experience the difference, and have more options available to me, when I get the break between the cracks.

Any advice you have for a frustrated, but keen to do better, home roaster is much appreciated!

[Randy G.]

The only thing that I really have been unable to do is get that extended time between the first and second cracks.

The time to drop the temperature is before the end of first crack. You could (and even should) begin slowing things down during the last half of first. By now you should pretty much know the temperature at which first begins and ends, and when second begins. Use that knowledge to predict when to turn down the temp and control fan speed. Use that to turn down the temp earlier and earlier until you find the point at which it does the most good.You could also use more beans- increase the load to maybe 275 grams. Try even turning the heat to 0% at the end of first for about 30 seconds, then set it back to 20-40% to hold the temperature. regulated by fan speed.

[tommy99]

Okay Randy I'm certainly no expert but getting much better taking your advice!

Now, do you have an secrets for decaf? I know it's a bit harder to get right, but I'm sure not getting it right.

If not Randy, anyone working with a profile that can provide some guidance?

Much appreciated!

[Randy G.]

Okay Randy I'm certainly no expert but getting much better taking your advice!

Do not mistake me for a coffee-roasting expert. i am not, nor have I ever claimed to be. What I do have is a decent working knowledge of the Hottop- I should, I wrote the manual (literally). From there I have gathered some info from others that seems to make for an excellent knowledge base, and then it is up to you.

For example, I was using a Rocky. I recently upgraded to a Mazzer Kony. The flavor profile was so radically different from the switch in grinders I had to re-blend and find another roast to match it. I am still very much searching, but generally am using a smoother, simpler blend of mostly South American coffees and roasting a lot lighter than before.

Now, do you have an secrets for decaf?

YES! Don't drink it. It is evil!

[LeoZ]

Thought I'd share a graph with everyone.
Just got the hottop, using the B panel right now.

This was a shorter roast than expected. Never used a Uganda bean before, maybe thats why?

Tried following Randys profile guidelines. Interesting that the temp was 'programmed' to 425, and the time to 23:00, no way it would have reach that.

[LeoZ]

Here is a graph of my 2nd batch for today, some SM monkey.
got it to extend a bit more, with more time between 1st and 2nd too. it hit 2nd HARD. i think it may develop oil in a day or two, which ive been trying to avoid. smell after cooling is good though - sweet, not pungent.

[Cafesp]

Randy,
Two good news to hear from you:
"...I recently upgraded to a Mazzer Kony. The flavor profile was so radically different from the switch in grinders I had to re-blend and find another roast to match it..."
Congratulations on your Pro-choice of grinder, seems it fit your Pro-roast style

Can't wait to read your new posts.

Cafesp

[Fullsack]

This really is becoming a work in progress. I've been experimenting with shortening roast times, but wasn't satisfied with batches that were loaded at temps in excess of the HotTop recommended 167 degrees nor batches that involved fan adjustments.

Here is a faster profile I have been pleased with: Load 225 grams at the beep, 167 degrees, heat level 10 and set to "auto." At 2:00 minutes the fan automatically runs at level 3 for 30 seconds, let that happen, but bring the temp back up to level 10, if you get an auto drop to level 7. When the roaster starts billowing smoke, between 6:00 and 6:30 minutes, drop the temp level to 6. The first snap of the first crack will occur about 10:00 minutes into the roast. Drop to heat level 4 at that point and let the temp level remain there until it is time to hit the "eject" button, at about 14:00 minutes. Keep a careful eye on the temp during the period between the first crack and the end of the roast, if you don't see a temp increase for over 30 seconds, kick the heat level up to 5 for a while. Except for a period during the drying phase, 2:00 to 2:30, the fan should remain at level zero during the entire roast for this profile.