HotTop digital & programmable profiles - Page 4

[Fullsack]

HotTop Programmable "P" profile settings for a total roast time of between 18:30 and 19:00
225 grams, Liquid Amber, Variac at 122, (110 volts).

Segment 1
Temp: 216
Time: 2:30
Fan: 0

Segment 2
Temp: 271
Time: 2:30
Fan: 0

Segment 3
Temp: 302
Time: 2:30
Fan: 0

Segment 4
Temp: 336
Time: 2:30
Fan: 0

Segment 5
Temp: 356
Time: 2:30
Fan: 0

Segment 6
Temp: 381
Time: 2:30
Fan: 1

Segment 7
Temp: 412
Time: 3:00
Fan: 2

Segment 8
Temp: 414
Time: 1:00
Fan: 3

The program is a little buggie. In segment 1, it blows past the 216 degree limit and goes to 234. Scroll through your saved program before starting a roast. The HotTop gremlins have a mind of their own and like to play tricks.

I haven't been that happy with this profile on any of my roasts. One roast got away from me early on and had a quick ramp-up. I slowed it down right away and still had a roast time of around 18:30. This roast was the best tasting ever, but unfortunately, I don't have the temp splits. Long story short, start with a faster ramp-up, then quickly, (after a minute or so), a slow it down, (don't stall the roast), accelerate again, but go slow into the FC to extend the time between the first and second cracks. This should improve the results.

[Fullsack]

You could get more precise readings with a thermocouple, but it doesn't seem necessary.

I am eating my words on this. If your are going to take your roasting to a higher level, knowing the temperature of your bean mass is a must.

See Randy G's website for detailed instructions:

http://www.espressomyespresso.com/

How-To Pages
9- Add Bean Temperature Monitoring to the Hottop

[Fullsack]

Of them all, I really like the new "B" and would recommend it over the more expensive "P,"

After weeks of struggling with the "P" and now using the "B," I couldn't agree more.

[Fullsack]

This cafeIKE chaff tray tip has been incredibly helpful in improving my roasts from the HotTop:

http://www.home-barista.com/forum...y-t4086.html#44521

It slows down the time between the first and second cracks as recommended by Ken Fox in his roasting tips thread:

(5) I roast almost to but never past second crack (your taste may differ), and I try to keep the interval between onset of 1st and what would be onset of 2nd at around 4 minutes, never more and never less than 3.5 minutes.

http://www.home-barista.com/forum...ng-tips-t5316.html

[Fullsack]

This cafeIKE chaff tray tip has been incredibly helpful in improving my roasts from the HotTop:

If you are going to use this technique, be aware that chaff will accumulate behind the tray and needs to be removed after each use. A light tap or two on the right side of the HotTop will knock out some additional chaff that accumulates inside and can also be done between roasts. This, however, is not a substitute for removing drum every 4-5 roasts and cleaning the inside of the roaster.

[Randy G.]

This cafeIKE chaff tray tip has been incredibly helpful in improving my roasts from the HotTop

If you have one of the later models (beginning with the "D+" I think) be sure to note the tip about pulling the chaff tray out no more than about 2mm. You will want to test this without beans. If pulled too far the chaff tray microswitch will signal the roaster to eject the beans. The chaff tray is a malleable aluminum, so moving it slightly might cause this as well. If so, you may have to spread the tray s that it is a little wider. The 2mm warning is also important since allowing too much cool air to enter in this way will drop the temperature too much.

I have seen that the onset of first crack is fairly consistent in regards to displayed temperature, so that can be used to predict first, thus making it fairly easy to begin to drop the heat at the correct moment.

[CoffeeOwl]

After weeks of struggling with the "P" and now using the "B," I couldn't agree more.

a little comparison between the P and B - question:
In the P, the heating goes fully on until the set temperature is attained. So if it reaches the temperature in the middle of the segment how does it further apply the heating power?
In the B, one can reduce the heating, however it needs to be done manually and if one wants to keep the temperature at constant for some time, one has to set the heating output manually and keep an eye on it. In the P manual it is written the unit 'circulates its heating element' so that the temperature remains the same throughout segment(s). The big question is how? is it just turning the heating off and then on or is there any more intelligent programming invovled?

[mrgnomer]

I have a P and from observing over 100 roasts I can say the element varies its output relative to the set temp vs. time. As the set temp is approached the element output proportionally reduces. It's possible with the P to hold the element at what looks like 50% output if you control the set temperature during the segment.

I've never really thought of it but from how the P is designed it would be possible to hold a set temp if you want to. The segment has to reach that temp and as it drops the element will cycle to try to hold it. It's not easy to do. The Hottop chamber gets pretty hot and more often than not the chamber temp will shoot well past a set temp if that set temp is much lower than the segment's max temp and if the segment time is long enough for the set temp to be reached. It's a trick to bring a Hottop to a temp you want and hold it there, in my experience.

[CoffeeOwl]

Thanks!

[Cafesp]

The newer Hottops (I believe the models since the one they call the KN-8828D+) with the larger chaff tray has a number of improvements such as a better main motor and mount, some electronic improvements, a chaff tray switch that remind the user to empty the chaff tray at th end of the roast (and will not allow restarting before that chore is done), the fuse on the power board has been eliminated, and various safety features have been programmed in sch as the user has to hit a button when the roast reaches 414F to be able to continue the roast, and the beans auto eject if the machine reads internal temp of 428.

The latest version of the "P" and "B" have improved electronic main power boards.

Of them all, I really like the new "B" and would recommend it over the more expensive "P," not just for lower cost but for superior control using manual adjustment of heating element power and fan speed during the roast. The biggest difference is that the "P" can save 9 profiles and the "B" can save only 23, but with the "B" you can modify a profile in real time and just choose not to store it at the end of the roast and the base profile will be unchanged and ready to use again...

After weeks of struggling with the "P" and now using the "B," I couldn't agree more.

So the "final answer" for my roaster search should be....."B"!

Thanks

Nathan

[Randy G.]

So the "final answer" for my roaster search should be....."B"!

Thanks

Nathan

There was a typo in my quote. it should have been:
"The biggest difference is that the "P" can save 9 profiles and the "B" can save only 3..."

Since the "B" model was introduced and arrived here I have not even plugged the "P" in. As a matter of fact, I removed the Control Panel from the one "P" I have and "upgraded" that roaster back to a "B."

[Cafesp]

... As a matter of fact, I removed the Control Panel from the one "P" I have and "upgraded" that roaster back to a "B."

After weeks of struggling with the "P" and now using the "B," I couldn't agree more.

"DO WHAT I SAID! DON'T DO WHAT I DID!"? ?
So you both have "P"!

Cause the 2 " big guns " stick to their guns, I will go ahead pull the trigger (amex)!

Cafes

[Randy G.]

"DO WHAT I SAID! DON'T DO WHAT I DID!"? ?
So you both have "P"!

Cause the 2 " big guns " stick to their guns, I will go ahead pull the trigger (amex)!

Cafes

I have had at least one of every model including the late Beta which as far as I know was one of the very first into the US, even before they were available for sale or testing. Currently, I am down to just 4 Hottops on hand.
I wrote the first public review of the Hottop Roaster (at least as far as I know of, in the US anyway). After that review and some other introductory work and schmoozing on my part, I have worked for Hottop as an independent contractor. As was mentioned in Mark P's review of the 2006 SCAA show in Long Beach, I wrote and produced the Hottop owner's manual (that's my wife's hand pouring the beans on page 7), and the entire Hottop website including all the photos in both. So, as far as my owning both models, don't be too impressed.

When the very first model came out, my only serious complaint was that there was no control over the roast, and if you didn't like the Hottop profile, too bad. The "P" seemed to me to be an over-complicated method to achieve user control, but the display was elegant, although not as useful as it could have been. IMO, the "B" is pretty close to perfect if controlling the roast manually is important to you. There are a few things I like about the "P" but overall, the "B" is superior for enthusiasts like most of us.

The biggest drawback of the "B" is that there is no way to examine a saved program. At the end of a roast you save it in one of three, non-volatile locations, then call it up to begin the next roast. So for critical roasts where exact parameters will be followed, you need to monitor the entire process carefully and stand by to control it as necessary. The good thing is that you have manual control over fan speed and heating element power level to enable you to do so.


Except for the interface of the Control panel, the models are identical, so there is not much worry about choosing the "B." You could always just purchase the upgrade kit and sell the removed parts, or save a bit and just buy the other control panel, but I don't think that will happen— you should be quite pleased with the "B."

[Fullsack]

I upgraded my other HotTop "P" to a "B," as well. If HotTops did the same thing during every roast, a "P" program might make sense. HotTops don't always behave the same during each roast, even with the same beans and batch size. If you are locked into a program during the roasting process and things come unraveled, you cannot do much about it within the "P" constraints.

[CoffeeOwl]

I started further inquiring about differences between "P" and "B" models because when I asked about the availability of the "B" model at one of the suppliers in Europe, I was strongly discuraged by him from buying it.
This is what I was told:

(...)trust me the B not as all singing as some say). Sure
you have control but I didn't think it reacted quick enough,
and I didn't think I was in control of the roast. And its one
minute segments on the P which is what you need to be honest to
react to what's happening in the roast. (...)

This person claims to have experience with all of the Hottops, from the very first ones to both the latest B and P.
I'm very much interested in choosing that model which will make it easier to adjust roasting and mostly keeping the brake between cracks the longest. So if anyone can enlighten if this quoted opinion is objective or is a matter of business easiness for someone, I would be very thankful. For me it is a matter of saving on the "B" price vs the "P" price.
Basing on

I have a P and from observing over 100 roasts I can say the element varies its output relative to the set temp vs. time.

and the advice I quoted earlier I was decided to buy the "P".

Thanks

[Cafesp]

CoffeeOwl,
I listen to the public & member-supported radio stations.
Trust the end users like us here (IMHO).
Go ahead, get Hottop B cause you still have option to upgrade and then got extra B panel for fun
Based on the other Hottop experienced roasters' input; I think Hottop eventually will comes out a better P panel version for all the previous models

Cafesp

[mrgnomer]

CoffeeOwl,
I listen to the public & member-supported radio stations.
Trust the end users like us here (IMHO).
Go ahead, get Hottop B cause you still have option to upgrade and then got extra B panel for fun
Based on the other Hottop experienced roasters' input; I think Hottop eventually will comes out a better P panel version for all the previous models

Cafesp

Yes, that's good advice. The B might require some experience to use but it sounds like it's more controllable, making it more flexible than the P.

I like my P but as luck would have it my iRoast died just when it came out. The B wasn't out yet. Had the B come out I'd have gotten the B regardless of the B being less expensive.

Someone called Hottop a while back and got a rundown on the differences between P and B. Whoever they talked to at Hottop recommended the P because of how it controls a programmed profile. I don't remember what it had to do with exactly but it think it had to do with how the P responds to chamber temp vs set temp over time to control element output. If anyone knows more or if I'm wrong I'd be interested in knowing for sure.

Still the only variables controllable during roasting with a P are adding time to the end of the roast (plus time), ending the roast or changing the set temperature in a segment up and down from the max allowable. Everything else like time for each segment and fan speed are set before hand and can't be changed during the roast. The element output is controlled by the roaster and responds to chamber temp and not any direct control by the operator.

It took me a few roasts to get some good profiles with a P. If a profile doesn't work well you've got to see it and adjust by re-programming for the next. You've got 8 segments you can program for everything from time, fan output, segment temp. Lots of variables. Hitting a profile with just a good timing to ramp up for a set up to 1st when you want it is tricky. Depending on your segment timing you can easily overshoot your max temp and in that case your element output goes to low and you lose momentum. That's frustrating when it happens where you don't want it to. You have to watch the roasts pretty carefully to see how the P works and then anticipate any changes you want to make in the profile when you reprogram for another roast. A little tedious but I figure once you target a good profile with a P you'll get roasts as good as anything you can get with a B. Might take a little longer, though, depending on your roasting experience.

[Fullsack]

The most recent "B" sports some refinements over the earlier "B." Some of the changes are safety features, but the auto setting also has more fan speed at the two critical points, the drying phase and at the ramp up right before the first crack.

I gave up trying to get the "B" to perform like the "D" and got better roasts as a result. The manual in the early HotTop "D's" recommended a 19 minute roast time. The slower roasting produced the desired longer period between the first and second cracks, but now the fan accomplishes that. The auto setting on the "B" gives about 10 mintes to the first crack, 4 minutes to the second. I have been ejecting at the first indication of the second crack and been getting exceptional roasts.

[Bigtwin]

@Fullsack,

My HT B model roasts as you have described, FC @ about 10 min and finishes somewhere around 14 minutes. At about 325 I run the fan @ 50% and when I hear the beginning of the FC, I lower the heat to 20 to 30 % and keep the fan at 50%. I eject the beans about 10 secs into the 2nd crack. So far, I've not roasted anything other than SM's Money and Donkey.

[CoffeeOwl]

Thanks...!
It looks reasonable now to go with the "B" and eventually get the "P" panel if I am not satisfied.
Anyway, I still have some time before I buy it (the money).