HotTop digital & programmable profiles - Page 3

[tmike]

I ran another 'full auto' batch of Yirgacheffe. I kept all of the conditions the same, except for the target temperature; this time I set the target to 410F.

My time, temperature, and heater and fan output logs are pretty much spot on to the previous roast (previous roast target was 428F). This time I let the roaster auto eject the beans. FWIW, 410F on my hottop LCD came about 30s after first crack finished. One thing I did notice, the fan didn't kick on to 100% before ejection like I said in my last point. I'm wondering if I mistook the timing of when I hit eject, and the fan kicking on was just the cooldown cycle. I've only been taking my current roasts to a City/City+. If anyone is interested, I"ll post some detailed logs once I do a few "full auto" roasts to FC+/Vienna.

So, it appears that the target time and target temperature act only as ejection points. That being said, before I get too far into creating custom profiles, I'm wondering if anyone knows exactly how they work? Are they time or temperature based? For example, if I'm at 10:00 minutes in, say 385F, and I turn off the heater completely, what will happen the next time I roast? Is the point that the heater will turn off based on the temperature or is it based on the time? This becomes significant if variables change (bean age, ambient temp, voltage, batch size, moon alignment), and we all know that never happens.

Craig, let me know how that Ruiruiru profile works out for you. I"ve got a couple pounds of it on the way, along with the Ethiopian Idido & Sidamo, and Costa Rican COE. Gotta love that SM Flat Rate shipment! Actually, the Yirg. I keep referencing is the Kochere from SM. Great stuff.

Happy roasting!

[Fullsack]

HotTop Programmable "P" profile settings for a total roast time of between 18:30 and 19:00
225 grams, Liquid Amber, Variac at 122, (110 volts).

Segment 1
Temp: 216
Time: 2:30
Fan: 0

Segment 2
Temp: 271
Time: 2:30
Fan: 0

Segment 3
Temp: 302
Time: 2:30
Fan: 0

Segment 4
Temp: 336
Time: 2:30
Fan: 0

Segment 5
Temp: 356
Time: 2:30
Fan: 0

Segment 6
Temp: 381
Time: 2:30
Fan: 1

Segment 7
Temp: 412
Time: 3:00
Fan: 2

Segment 8
Temp: 414
Time: 1:00
Fan: 3

The program is a little buggie. In segment 1, it blows past the 216 degree limit and goes to 234. Scroll through your saved program before starting a roast. The HotTop gremlins have a mind of their own and like to play tricks.

[Fullsack]

As a "General" guideline for a newbie, what is a good duration for first crack? Mine seem to be about 90 seconds.

For a 18:30-19:00 roast I am at about 15:30 when I begin to hear the first crack.

What is a good duration for the time between 1st end and 2nd start?

I hear 2 minutes tossed around a lot, from the beginning of the first to the beginning of the second. So much depends on what you are roasting. Some coffees, especially blends, have some overlap between the first and second cracks, so I wouldn't rely too much on the 2 minute rule.

I have better luck with the rapid second crack as a critical point.

[CyclingCraig]

OK Roasted some SM's Monkey last night.

And many THANKS to Doug(Fullsack) for posting that profile above.

What I did last night was try to match it with my "B" and I think I came pretty close. Last night's roast was 18:15 with 1st crack at 14:50 and lasting a little over a minute. Then about a little less than 2 minutes later (~1:45) First snaps of 2nd and I ejected.

Here is Results from last night(Pink is my typical roast, Light Blue is Dougs Baseline I was trying to match, and dark blue is what I ended up with)


Also here are my Heater and fan settings:


Have to let it rest for a couple of days so won't know how it came out until then, but I am still going to try and tweak it a little more to get my temps up in the 8 to 14 minute range of the roast and then stick with that for a while.

[Cosmo]

Craig, your graphs are amazing. Are you plotting that manually, writing down each point at each minute? I feel sort of like a one armed paper hanger as I watch the roast, write observations in my log, try to see how fast the heat is ramping up and when I should lower the heat without stalling the roast. (before first? how low? how long?) I did just order a digital count up timer that I think will be less confusing thatn the count down unit on the HT.

Anyway, next roast I'm going to try your heater and fan settings and see what happens.
Mike

[Randy G.]

[quote"].............. I did just order a digital count up timer that I think will be less confusing than the count down unit on the HT.[/quote]
No kidding! try recording the readout from the Hottop's display and the readout from an external digital thermometer for bean temperature at the same time throughout a roast. And do that every 30 seconds, counting up while the Hottop is counting down... While trying to record general observations such as color and cracks... And during that, don't hit the wrong button, ejecting the roast instead of adjusting the heater element power... Not that it has actually happened to me.. Nooo... No way.. Uhhh uhhhh! Nope.

[Niko]

Yep...
I sometimes miss using the iRoar because the Hottop makes me feel like I can use a 3rd arm.

[CyclingCraig]

To track my data, instead of writing it down, I set up my point and shoot digital camera on a tripod, right in front of the hottop display and take a picture every 30 seconds..

I take a pic of the scale when I weight my beans, then the initial settings of the hottop display. Then I start my roast and sit there and press the shutter button every 30 seconds as I watch the count down. After the roast is done, I put the beans on the scale again and take a picture again for weight out.

Then I download pics to computer and at my leisure transfer the number to Excel for graphing and review.

Like these:



So really the only notes I take are when 1st crack starts and temp, when 1st ends and then if I take it to 2nd when that starts and it's temp. Also any other notes I feel like taking, like if I make profile adjustments and such.

I roasted again last night, trying to match Dougs profile again.. I was better, but still have to tweak it, I was still to low in temps in the middle of the roast, but I think I have a plan for my next roast and I should be even closer.

When I do that roast I will post up all my setting, so all can try?

[Fullsack]

What a slick idea! Tasted the Monkey yet?

[Niko]

To track my data, instead of writing it down, I set up my point and shoot digital camera on a tripod, right in front of the hottop display and take a picture every 30 seconds..

Or.....
you can stick your video cam on a tripod and automatically set it on intravalometer to shoot every 30 seconds for 2 seconds (or however much you like). I use this setting to monitor other things and the best part is you don't have to deal with it during the roast.

[CyclingCraig]

Or.....
you can stick your video cam on a tripod and automatically set it on intravalometer to shoot every 30 seconds for 2 seconds (or however much you like). I use this setting to monitor other things and the best part is you don't have to deal with it during the roast.

COOLL.. I was looking for a setting like that on my camera but didn't find it...

Time to break out the video camera and the manual, I hope mine has that feature! I didn't even *think* to try my video camera

GREAT! idea.

What a slick idea! Tasted the Monkey yet?

Not yet, tomorrow morning will be the first pull... *MAYBE* tonight

[CyclingCraig]

FINALLY got a chance to tweak and test some roasts.

What I ended up with, is a roast profile I stored in AD-1 by roasting some beans from Coffee Bean Corral (Fredalance Espresso Blend). Roasted the beans to about 15 - 20 seconds into second crack, but DEF not a rolling 2nd crack.

I was pretty happy with the profile, and the next day, just roasted 2 batches by using that profile. These coffees were for Drip/FrenchPress, so I didn''t take them into 2nd crack, more of a City+ and Full City roast

Here is a graph of my results:
- Roast 15 is Sweet Marias Costa Rica - Vino De Aribia (City - City+)
- Roast 16 is Sweet Marias Ethiopia Harar Horse Lot- 14659 (City+ - Full City)
- The BaseLine is from one of Doug's earilier posts that I am trying to get close to
- Heater and Fan are ploted on the second y axis on the right (0% to 100%).
- First crack (really first pops of 1st) for the roast happens pretty darn close for both roasts... right around 15:15 into the roast.



Anyone want to try the profile?, I basically just started with the auto profile, and ONLY adjust the heater as per the graph, the Fan I DIDN"T touch, that is the fan profile from the Auto program.

How does it look?

[ElBean]

Craig,

1. How many grams is your batch, and what is your line voltage (while heating)?

2. Have you tried to eliminate the 10% heater bump at the 9:30 min mark? it is such a small change to really affect
the end result. My HT does not respond that fast.

3. What bike do you ride?

Thanks,

Elan

[CyclingCraig]

Craig,

1. How many grams is your batch, and what is your line voltage (while heating)?

2. Have you tried to eliminate the 10% heater bump at the 9:30 min mark? it is such a small change to really affect
the end result. My HT does not respond that fast.

3. What bike do you ride?

Thanks,

Elan

1. Weight of beans in = 250g, Weight of beand out ~ 210g
- I was a Mech Engineer.. we try and stay away from wires , I don't use a Variac so I don't know how I would measure the Voltage while the unit is running?

2. I actually put that in there on purpose ... My from previous roasts I had a slight dip in temps around the 10:30 - 11:00 min mark. that 10% bump was me trying to stop that dip, that was "going" to happen in 60 to 90 seconds.

3. '02 CBR600F4i... My Avitar pic is the bike with un-painted race plastics on for a track day

[CoffeeOwl]

I wonder: is it really a lot less of control with the P model due to the lack of setting heater %? or does the machine adjust the heater power accordingly to the temperature demands of user?
Pawel

[Niko]

1.I don't use a Variac so I don't know how I would measure the Voltage while the unit is running?

You can use a nice little device called a Kill A Watt, it has a digital readout and it's extremely accurate. Just plug it in the wall and the Hottop right into it, the Variac analog display is not only crude but extremely un-accurate. And yes I did test both these things with a Fluke meter to confirm.

You can find a Kill A Watt on eBay for about 20 bucks delivered...

[MobJackJaVA]

Craig,

I tried your roast profile today. I dropped the volume of the roast down to 225 grams and followed the heater adjustments to the tee. Everything was going well but I did seem to have an early first crack with some of my beans at about 350.......and then the "real" first crack at about 385-390 degrees. I'm roasting Colombian supremo beans. I think the ambient temp of the room I was in may have impacted the roast....It was about 60 degrees in the auxillary building I roasted in. I had to kick in the heater towards the end of the roast and dropped the beans at 20 minutes.

I dropped the roast after first crack and had what looked like a pretty consistent full city roast. I know they say Colombian beans are better a little less roasted, but I like the flavor of a full city.

I'm going to experiment with my own profile this weekend so I'll post my results when I get a chance. Overall I've completed three roasts and all have produced superior quality coffee to anything store bought. Just think what can be accomplished once the roast is fine tuned....?

Cheers...

[Cosmo]

Craig, I will try your new profile today with some witha batch of Kona and a batch of Timor peaberry. I'm shooting for city plus on the Kona and Ful city + on the Timor.
Mike

[CyclingCraig]

Craig, I will try your new profile today with some witha batch of Kona and a batch of Timor peaberry. I'm shooting for city plus on the Kona and Ful city + on the Timor.
Mike

COOOL!

I am glad people are trying it out! I hope it works for you?

Let me know how close it comes to 1st crack and the heater getting knocked Down to 30%? I was aiming for that to coincide (1st really starts and the heater droping to 30% to let the beans "curise" thru first).

So 1st crack *should* happen around 14:45 min ~ 15:15 min into your roast. For City Plus and Fill City I was stopping my Ethiopia and Costa Rica SO's about 45s - 60s AFTER 1st crack ended. According to SM's articles on roast levels, Full City is "on the verge of 2nd" so you have to try and guess a little.

Keep me updated!

[Fullsack]

I took the Advanced Roasting class at the Seattle Coffee Fest this weekend

http://www.home-barista.com/forum...st-2007-t4987.html

and was interested to see how the shape of the graph of the best tasting roast, so closely resembled the climb, flatten, climb of Craig's graph

http://www.home-barista.com/forum...4291-40.html#55874

and that the total roast time was just 13 seconds shorter, 18:02.

The straight line graph had the worst tasting results, but a gentle curve shaped profile

http://www.home-barista.com/forum...4291-40.html#56768

gave the coffee a nice flavor.