HotTop digital & programmable profiles - Page 2

[CyclingCraig]

that 19:00 and 250g is a good starting place

I would think if I let my Hottop run for 19 minutes on auto I would get black rocks outs?

The first time I ran the Hottop, I didn't touch any adjustments and by 12 minutes I was into a rapid 2nd crack? If I didn't eject them, I assume they would have just burnt?

Should my hottop be adjusting heater and fan automatically to end up with a 19 minute roast time? Cause that is NOT what it is doing. It just keeps heater to 100% and turns the fan on once in a while?

What I do NOW to roast is Set time to 22:00 temp to 428F (Auto mode). Start the roaster, let it Pre-Heat. Pour in beans when it beeps.

Then I watch and listen, I started turning down the heater to 50% as Randy Suggested to like 50% at about 340F chamber Temp, keep it like that for 2:30, then turn back up until first crack. Then at first crack, turn heater BACK down to like 30 - 40% till the end of the roast. End of the roast is when I JUST hear the start of 2nd crack, I manually press eject at that point. Which is right now WAY less than the 22:00 I program for at the beginning.

Last night I ended up with about a 14:20 total roast time for what was described above.

[Niko]

I just ran the first roast ever on my "P" model last night. Ran it on AUTO, dialed it in for 21 minutes and I ejected it a little after 19 minutes. The roast was no where neat charcoal, it was a nice Full City at the very most - not a hint of oil or shrapnel anywhere.
I'd say it was around 19:23 or so, sorry I didn't take careful notes on this since I'm just breaking it in on the first few roasts to season it.

[CyclingCraig]

Ran it on AUTO, dialed it in for 21 minutes and I ejected it a little after 19 minutes. The roast was no where neat charcoal, it was a nice Full City at the very most.....
I'd say it was around 19:23 or so

OK, so am I doing something wrong? why are my roast SO Fast? 14 minutes EVEN WITH chopping heater to 50% at the 340F mark for 2.5 minutes

- 250g weight going in, scale I am using is accurate to .1g and calibrated with a 200g weight?
- Could it be the greens I am using? (Using CoffeeBeanCorral free stuff and their Espresso Blend that shipped with my unit)
- I have some SweetMarias on the way (Monkey and Liquid Amber and a Kenya)
- Could it be my house voltage(thought the new Hottops had built in Voltage regulators?)

Does anybody have a "B" that when run on auto the heater turns itself down automatically?

[Niko]

Maybe it's the beans, not sure since I was using the free stuff from the Corral also, this one is Rwanda. I know we don't have the same exact roaster but I don't see why there would be much difference in the AUTO mode. Maybe the voltage in your house is a little higher...?
For the record, I'm not using a Variac yet - I need to order one soon so I can't report any voltages.

[mrgnomer]

Kirk,
After reading your "I'm glad," about the programmable, I bit the bullet and ordered the programmable upgrade for my KN-8828. This will get interesting when we can compare notes on different profiles.

I got the P well before the B came out or I might have chosen the B. I like full control, however...

Not me but someone contacted Hottop about the difference between the P and B and decided to get the P model. From what they were told and from my experience the roasting temps relative to the heating element output as related to your programmed segment temp and time are automatically controlled by the P. A short segment time and high set temp has the element going full until you hit the temp, if at all. A long segment time for the same temp will reduce element output as soon as you get close to the temp and all but shut it off when you hit/exceed your target temp. I don't know how much of an advantage this is if you have a specific profile in mind, I find it does, but the lack of on the fly control means I've got to watch the roast and make changes to the profile after the roast if I don't like the profile it went through. Other than lowering or raising target temps with in a segment, adding plus times at the end of the roast and stopping the roast when you want I'm bound by the time set for each segment and what the roaster decides for element output.

With the B the control is in the hands of the operator from what I've read. If you know what you want or what you're doing it would be great to have on the fly total control. In the end, though, I wouldn't be surpised if what's automatically controlled by the P ends up what you do manually with a B. Kind of like an automatic transmission vs. a standard. More gears on a standard, potentially better gas milage but in the end the power band is the power band and going up or down in gears is relative to your speed regardless of transmission type.

The display of the P sure is pretty, though.

[Fullsack]

For the record, I'm not using a Variac yet - I need to order one soon so I can't report any voltages.

I saw some Variacs for sale on eBay, the 20 amp red ones like Sweet Marias use to sell. They are going for $104, a quantity of 9.

[Randy G.]

..For the record, I'm not using a Variac yet - I need to order one soon so I can't report any voltages.

That's backwards, IMO. Get a voltmeter and check your voltage first, then decide whether you need a variac or not. 115 or more under load should be just fine for the Hottop. Try different outlets as well, if possible.

[nicfortin]

To answer my question posted earlier in this thread.

I tought you didn't need a variac with the newer models?
I've read somewhere (can't find it for now, will edit as soon as I find it) they a have some sort of voltage control integrated in them now, true or not?

I finaly found it here

Not sensitive to the line voltage, no voltage regulator needed, such as a Variac, to maintain proper voltage.

So a variac is not usefull unless you really want to have more "precise" control on the heating element

[Fullsack]

Thought this post answered the question:

http://www.home-barista.com/forum...d-t4291.html#54133

[Niko]

I finally got a Variac, guess I really didn't need it since my power is a steady 124V in the house. One good thing is I can have repeatability if I just stay with the same setting on the Variac everytime, maybe around 120V with the element full ON.
Other than that, it looks cool and it can hold the door open on a windy day.
I think you pretty much proved that it's a useful tool, Doug.

So without the Variac, what's your incoming voltage?

[Cosmo]

Does anybody have a "B" that when run on auto the heater turns itself down automatically?

Craig, last night I roasted 225 gms of Kenya Peaberry I got from Sweet Marias. I started more or less on auto, loaded the beans at 200 degrees on the hottop readout. I hit first about 8-9 minutes later, and, 30 or forty seconds into first, I pushed the fan on full and dropped the power to the heater to 20%. Let it coast there for a couple of minutes, and pushed the power back up to the max and slowed down the fan. A minute or so later, I saw the power was only at 80%. I don't know if the machine did that, or if I just messed up a little. Anyway, I dropped the beans at about 13 minutes, just at the start of a rolling second. They look good, but I have not tasted them yet.

One thing I notice about the Hottop, well, a couple things really. Once things start rolling, either first or second crack, it's too late to be trying to massage the roast. It''s like you have to be able to tell what will happen before it does, so you can affect any changes. The other thing, is, I really got a lot to learn. And trying different beans is interesting, because they all seem to roast a little differently.
Mike

[Fullsack]

that 19:00 and 250g is a good starting place

I would think if I let my Hottop run for 19 minutes on auto I would get black rocks outs?

Last night I ended up with about a 14:20 total roast time for what was described above.

This is a HotTop problem, not a Craig problem. I did my first batch after completing the programmable upgrade and got the same thing. As I stated and Randy G. concurred, 19 minutes and 250 grams is a good starting place. I have no idea why the HotTop automatic setting and standard program, on the programmable, are set to give you charcoal at 14:30, which is exactly what I got. The total roast time on the automatic and standard programs show 17:20. If you waited that long before ejecting, the HotTop would be in flames.

The digital didn't have this problem.

I am working on a profile that will give a good 19 minute total roast time, hitting the marks I mentioned earlier in this thread. Creating this profile by trial and error will waste a lot of coffee. (This makes me cranky). I'll post the profile once I come up with something that works.

[harris]

Have you guys tried lowering the target temp when using auto? It helps, my target temp is set to 410 and the roast is almost spot on at 18 min.

Now for some problems that I am having and wondering if any one has seen this.

During the last half dozen or so roasts I have noticed a difference in the way my saved profiles behave. They are not repeating themselves, some times the fan doesn't come on and other times the heater does not decrease. Here's the weird part, it is always the first roast. After the first batch everything is back to normal, thoughts?



h

[Fullsack]

Have you guys tried lowering the target temp when using auto? It helps, my target temp is set to 410 and the roast is almost spot on at 18 min.

What a good idea! Thanks, I'll try it. My roasts usually finish between 409 and 414 degrees.

Now for some problems that I am having and wondering if any one has seen this.

During the last half dozen or so roasts I have noticed a difference in the way my saved profiles behave. They are not repeating themselves, some times the fan doesn't come on and other times the heater does not decrease. Here's the weird part, it is always the first roast. After the first batch everything is back to normal, thoughts?

h

I just started with the programmable yesterday. I'll let you know, if my experience is the same. Both of my HotTop Digital failures were circut board related.

[tmike]

Have you guys tried lowering the target temp when using auto? It helps, my target temp is set to 410 and the roast is almost spot on at 18 min.

What a good idea! Thanks, I'll try it. My roasts usually finish between 409 and 414 degrees.

Let us know how this works out.

I wondered what the target time and target temperature would do in the auto mode on the B, so I asked Hottop. My understanding is that the auto roast profile does not change, so essentially the target time and target temperature serve as ejection points. Maybe I misunderstood. One thing is for sure...I think it's time for me to start a log and try, try, try.

Does anybody have a "B" that when run on auto the heater turns itself down automatically?

As of my last full auto roast of 270g of Yirg., I recorded the time, temps, and fan and heater outputs.
For this roast, target time=max, target temp=max.
Drop beans at beep.
Roast starts, heater 100%, fan off.
At around 2:30, 210F (as indicated by LCD), fan kicked on to 75% for 30 seconds, then went back to off. Heater unchanged at 100%.
At 9:00, 361F, fan picks up to 25% (and stays there for the rest of the roast). Heater still 100%.
At 10:30, 381F, fan still at 25%, heater drops to 80%.
At 11:00, 385F, first starts, heater and fan unchanged.
At 12:30, 401F, first just finishing.
At 13:00, 406F, manually eject; however, I noticed that the fan kicked on to 100% just before I hit eject.

I haven't tried this batch yet, we'll see how the full auto did. I did a 250g batch of this same Yirg. for my very first roast. I couldn't resist the manual control on the first try, so who knows what I did. It was too much fun, I was tweaking this and that! At 5 days rest my wife and in-laws went nuts for it, something about eating a chocolate orange. Unfortunately for me, I've had a cold since I got the B, so I've been having to take everyone else's word for it!

[CyclingCraig]

Hey all:

Cosmo I JUST roasted the SAME Sweet Marias beans also.. Here is my Profile from that roast:


(Times are counting from 0 and going up, Temp is in "F" and are chamber temps NOT Bean mass temps)
First Crack Start about 10:45 @ 374 (Seen in yellow shade)
First Crack End about 12:15 @ 387

Ejected on verge of Second Crack at 15:15 @ 399

The Above was not an "AUTO" program, but one I am working on, it looks like this:
1:30 Heater to 90%
2:30 Fan to 75%
3:00 Fan to 0%
6:00 Heater to 50%
6:30 Fan to 25%
9:00 Fan to 0%, Heat to 90%
11:00 Fan to 50%, Heat to 30% (First Crack starting)
Keep above till end(Maybe lower fan to 25%)

I wondered what the target time and target temperature would do in the auto mode on the B, so I asked Hottop

I also emailed Hottop and this was reply:

Re:"So I guess, I am asking does the target time affect the auto roast profile? Also should my heat power be changing while running on auto?"

Changing the target time and target temperature will not affect the auto profile.

Michael

As I stated and Randy G. concurred, 19 minutes and 250 grams is a good starting place

So if 19 minutes is a good place to start, How should I get there? Should I lower the heater for the whole first part of the roast so it takes longer to get to first crack?

As a "General" guideline for a newbie, what is a good duration for first crack? Mine seem to be about 90 seconds.

What is a good duration for the time between 1st end and 2nd start?

[Fullsack]

So if 19 minutes is a good place to start, How should I get there? Should I lower the heater for the whole first part of the roast so it takes longer to get to first crack?

Both of the circut boards on my HotTop Digitals failed, one on the power button, the other on the temp button. I purchased the "P" and "B" upgrades as replacements. When I get the "B" upgrade installed, I will try to figure this out.

[Niko]

Doug, what do you mean the Variac is at 122V and 110V? I assume your incoming voltage is 110V without the Variac?

[harris]

I too emailed Michael and was basically told I was nuts, in a nice way.

Here"s what I uncovered today doing 3 roasts 250gms each of Yemen Mokha Haimi. The machine does behave the same way no matter the starting target temp but there is a difference between the first and subsequent roasts. Today I took detailed notes every thirty seconds to document what I was seeing. All the beans were dropped in at the beep, 167* and stopped 15 seconds into the first clear second crack. During the first minute of the first roast the temp climbed 12*. During the first minute of the second and third roasts the temp dropped 6* to 161. I thought it was my changing of the target temp and never noticed this temp drop until today. This initial temp difference results in a time delay that syncs up the fan to the first crack (by luck) and the roast finishes with 40% heat and fan at 100%. I saw a post about Hottop second roast taking longer but never read it, I am off to find it now.



h

[Fullsack]

Doug, what do you mean the Variac is at 122V and 110V? I assume your incoming voltage is 110V without the Variac?

My incoming voltage is 110, but the juice pull of the HotTop causes an uneven voltage flow. The Variac evens it out. You may need to increase the temp settings, on the profile, a couple of degrees to compensate. Without the Variac, I get different temp readings at the company condo than I do at home.