HotTop digital & programmable profiles

[Fullsack]

With this machine, there are 3 major variables. 1. Total roasting time 2. Batch size 3. Voltage setting on the Variac. A minor variable is the ambient temp. My roast temp can be affected by the speed of the overhead fan on the stove.

After a lot of trial and error with batch size, I've concluded that 225 grams produces the best roasts. This has proven true on every blend I've roasted: Sweet Marias Monkey, Liquid Amber, Classic Italian and Puro Scuro. Malabar Gold, Kadir, Greenline and Dolce. Malabar Gold and Dolce have more volume at 225 grams, but the rule still holds. Bean age that might affect the moisture content of green beans isn't enough of a factor to compensate by adjusting the batch size.

The ideal voltage setting on the Vu meter on the Variac has consistently been 122.

I press the temp button on the HotTop every 2 1/2 minutes to check the temp splits. You could get more precise readings with a thermocouple, but it doesn't seem necessary. The temp split range I stay close to is: 2.5 minutes, 220 degrees, 5:00-267, 7.5-305, 10:00-337, 12.5-353, 15:00-375. Micro adjustments to the Variac and the overhead stove fan are occasionally necessary to keep the splits near these temps. I log every roast on sheets photocopied from the forum on the back of the HotTop manual.

The count down timer on the HotTop is confusing, especially, if you are adding time near the end of the roast. I alway use a separate timer.

Total roast time is between 18:00 and 18:30 for full city+. IMO and contrary to conventional wisdom, full city+ tastes better for espresso roasts no matter what the blend, at least the ones I've roasted.

The first crack usually starts between 15:20 and 15:40, the rapid second crack 18:00 to 18:30. I wait until the beginning of the rapid second crack before pressing the eject button.

These details reflects some refinements I've made since the review I wrote last year, but the basics haven't changed. A lot of what I've asserted flies in the face of accepted wisdom, come to your own conclusions.

http://www.coffeegeek.com/reviews...es/hottop/fullsack

[Fullsack]

The newer version sports a bigger brass knob, angled paddles inside the drum, (and yeah, the beans still get stuck in them), and a larger capacity chaff collector. *Everything else seems to operate the same with the exception of the ejection. The newer HotTop doesn't dump the roasted beans as fast.

*See the 9/23 post in this thread for an update.

[Niko]

Nice info on the roaster(s), Doug.
Do you think the extra $ is well spent on the newer version of the Hottop? I'm torn between the Gene Cafe and the Hottop, I don't feel like wrangling parts together to build a stir crazy style of roaster (although 1lb batches sounds nice). I'm more after control than batch size and besides saving my precious hearing after using an iRoar2 for quite some time now (it refuses to die).
...and good luck on your eBaying on those cups!

[Randy G.]

Nice info on the roaster(s), Doug.
Do you think the extra $ is well spent on the newer version of the Hottop? I'm torn between the Gene Cafe and the Hottop, I don't feel like wrangling parts together to build a stir crazy style of roaster (although 1lb batches sounds nice). I'm more after control than batch size and besides saving my precious hearing after using an iRoar2 for quite some time now (it refuses to die).

iRoast2, for the money, is, IMO, the best bet in a roaster (unless you build one or use a BBQ drum).. Makes great coffee, but batch size is small, and as with all air roasters, it is loud and has a limited life span.

The newer Hottops (I believe the models since the one they call the KN-8828D+) with the larger chaff tray has a number of improvements such as a better main motor and mount, some electronic improvements, a chaff tray switch that remind the user to empty the chaff tray at th end of the roast (and will not allow restarting before that chore is done), the fuse on the power board has been eliminated, and various safety features have been programmed in sch as the user has to hit a button when the roast reaches 414F to be able to continue the roast, and the beans auto eject if the machine reads internal temp of 428.

The latest version of the "P" and "B" have improved electronic main power boards.

Of them all, I really like the new "B" and would recommend it over the more expensive "P," not just for lower cost but for superior control using manual adjustment of heating element power and fan speed during the roast. The biggest difference is that the "P" can save 9 profiles and the "B" can save only 23, but with the "B" you can modify a profile in real time and just choose not to store it at the end of teh roast and the base profile will be unchanged and ready to use again.

I will have a Gene Cafe in about a week so should be able to offer some comparisons. With two German Shepherds, three cats, and a wife who is the Queen of Breakage I do have to be careful with glass chambers. The GC also offers no external cooling, and like the Behmor roaster I do not think there is any way to monitor bean temperature with a probe so direct comparisons will be difficult, but we have already tread over that ground here quite firmly, and left some deep footprints...

[Fullsack]

Nice info on the roaster(s), Doug.
Do you think the extra $ is well spent on the newer version of the Hottop? I'm torn between the Gene Cafe and the Hottop, I don't feel like wrangling parts together to build a stir crazy style of roaster (although 1lb batches sounds nice). I'm more after control than batch size and besides saving my precious hearing after using an iRoar2 for quite some time now (it refuses to die).
...and good luck on your eBaying on those cups!

I thought about the programmable HotTop as well, but I couldn't see much advantage. I'm getting great roasts from the digital.

I had a Gene Cafe and never could produce a roast that was close to the quality of the HotTop roasts. I did a lot of experimenting. There are many posts here and on CG that support me on this, and one that doesn't.

My first roaster was an iRoast. Thankfully, it self destructed and I got a chance to find out how much better roasts could be, when produced by the HotTop.

[Fullsack]

I will have a Gene Cafe in about a week so should be able to offer some comparisons.

Randy,
I look forward to your comparisons. Your extensive review is the reason I purchased a HotTop in the first place.

iRoast2, for the money, is, IMO, the best bet in a roaster (unless you build one or use a BBQ drum)

For the money, I'd forget the iRoast and instead, get a heat gun and a dog dish

[Fullsack]

The two Hottops I have are responding differently to the same profile. Hitting the marks on the profile that works so well on the earlier model behaves differently on the newer Hottop. I had to drop the Variac to 122 to get the above mentioned 220 degrees at 2.5 minutes, 267 at 5:00, 305 at 7:30, 337 at 10:00, 353 at 12:30 and 375 at 15:00 on the newer model.

On the earlier Hottop, the first crack came at around 15:30 and the second crack around 18:00 with this profile. Hitting these same marks on the later model delays the first crack until around 16:00 minutes and has a total roast time that exceeds 19:00, too long.

It could be that all Hottops are different in this way or it is just the earlier vs. later models. For a good generic profile, it is best to keep the Variac at around 122 and try for a total roast time of around 18:30.

Splits of 2:30 are too long to make Variac adjustments that keep the profile on track. It takes about 2 minutes for the adjustments to show up on the temp read out. I have begun keeping 1 minute splits and making variac adjustments every minute, if necessary.

The splits on the later model Hottop look like this:

1:00-186 degrees
2:00-211
3:00-236
4:00-255
5:00-273
6:00-289
7:00-303
8:00-319
9:00-330
10:00-341
11:00-348
12:00-355
13:00-364
14:00-375
15:00-384
16:00-396
17:00-405
18:00-413

First Crack-15:27
Rapid Second Crack-18:28
Total Roast Time-18:30

[Randy G.]

Over time the Hottops have undergone changes, and from what I have seen and read, these include changes to the program in the default "AUTO" mode. To hear that an older roaster performs somewhat differently than a newer one of the same model does not surprise me. I believe that there was even a re-spec'ing of the heating element-- at least to say, the manufacturer of the element was held to tighter tolerances, but that was some time ago.

Listed from least effect to greatest (IMO). other factors (besides voltage, beans, etc.) which can affect roast total time are:
-coffee seasoning on the drum changing the size of the ventilation perforations
-burnt oil etc. on the temperature sensor
-dirty fan blades interfering with air flow over and through the fan
-dirty main filter constricting air flow

When the P (and later the B) arrived, I found I was able to get a better tasting coffee right off by shortening the total roast time (which took a lot of hands-on effort with the two early models-- more than I wanted to go through).

BTW- the KN-8828 (original model), and the KN-8828D (digital, red display) are no longer available according to the Hottop USA website. Only the P and B models are now available.

[Niko]

I just ordered the Hottop "P" a few days ago.
My ears could no longer handle the iRoar2.

[nicfortin]

The two Hottops I have are responding differently to the same profile. Hitting the marks on the profile that works so well on the earlier model behave differently on the newer Hottop. I had to drop the Variac to 122 to get the above mentioned 220 degrees at 2.5 minutes, 267 at 5:00, 305 at 7:30, 337 at 10:00, 353 at 12:30 and 375 at 15:00 on the newer model.

I tought you didn't need a variac with the newer models?
I've read somewhere (can't find it for now, will edit as soon as I find it) they a have some sort of voltage control integrated in them now, true or not?

[Niko]

Interesting you say this...
I read the same thing somewhere, can't remember where

[Fullsack]

I tought you didn't need a variac with the newer models?
I've read somewhere (can't find it for now, will edit as soon as I find it) they a have some sort of voltage control integrated in them now, true or not?

I'll do a batch with the newer model without the Variac. With the 1 minute time splits, it will be easy to see if the profile tracks the same way as it does with the Variac.

[CyclingCraig]

I JUST got my "B" and my roast times are MUCH shorter than yours? BUTTT i have only done 2 roasts in it so far?

to quote myself from this post: http://www.home-barista.com/forum...ting-t4788-20.html

Last night I roasted the Organic Mexican that came free from CoffeeBeanCorral. It took about 9:30 minutes to get to first crack (Immediately turned heater down to 50% at this point), 1st crack lasted about 90 seconds. then about a 40 second pause before 2nd crack JUST started and I ejected the beans. So I took the beans just to first pops of second crack, and they seem lighter roast than my first try(Which was my intent, first roast went pretty far into 2nd crack). Seems to me like a nice chocolate brown (City to City+ ? I am guessing)

My TOTAL roast time from when beans go in to eject is about 12 - 13 minutes? The only time I adjust the heater is RIGHT at first crack, where I turn the heater down to 50%? I am also starting with 250g, how much are you starting with?

Are you using the Variac to speed up the roast or slow it down? IF to slow down roast, why not just turn down the heater setting? (Sorry for all the questions, I am just a newbie trying to learn)

[Fullsack]

Results from the later model Hottop with no Variac, 225 grams of Liquid Amber.

The normal warm up time with the Variac is 5 minutes, this time it took 6.

The marks without the Variac look like this:

1:00-182 degrees
2:00-204
3:00-227
4:00-247
5:00-264
6:00-278
7:00-291
8:00-305
9:00-319
10:00-330
11:00-346
12:00-353
13:00-367
14:00-370
15:00-379
16:00-391
17:00-400
18:00-409

First Crack-16:59
Second Crack-18:50
Rapid Second Crack-never reached
*Total Roast Time-abandoned at 19:35

*Still looked underroasted.


With a Variac set at 125, 225 grams of Liquid Amber:

The marks on the later model Hottop look like this:

1:00-186 degrees
2:00-211
3:00-236
4:00-255
5:00-273
6:00-289
7:00-303
8:00-319
9:00-330
10:00-341
11:00-348
12:00-355
13:00-364
14:00-375
15:00-384
16:00-396
17:00-405
18:00-413

First Crack-15:27
Rapid Second Crack-18:28
Total Roast Time-18:30

[mrgnomer]

My first roaster was an iRoast. Thankfully, it self destructed and I got a chance to find out how much better roasts could be, when produced by the HotTop.

LOL!

Me too. The Hottop programmable price had me thinking for a while but I'm glad I gave in and got one. I really like the roasts from the Hottop better than the iRoast2, which I got about 300 roasts out of before it started going.

[CyclingCraig]

How does this look to you guys: (Hottop 8828B)

Beans: Coffee Bean Corral Ferdelance Espresso Blend
Weight In: 250g
Weight out: 214.7g

Total Roast Time: 12:30
0:00 - 167
1:00 - 182
2:00 - 206
3:00 - 237
4:00 - 266
5:00 - 293
6:00 - 316
7:00 - 336
8:00 - 354
9:00 - 370
9:23 - 375
10.30 - 392
11:00 - 395
12:00 - 401
12.30 - 404



First Crack @ 9:07 Turned Heater to 40%
First Crack End @ 10:50

Second Crack @ 12:08 (Juuuuuusssst start a couple of pops of second)
Eject at 12:30 (Wanted to make sure I was really right at beginings of second crack, that is why I didn't eject RIGHT at above, still learning)

Beans look really good and dark chocolate color, Have to wait couple of days to pull first shots though.

So, is this fast for the Hottop B? What do others profiles look like

[miKe mcKoffee]

So, is this fast for the Hottop B? What do others profiles look like

Maybe on the fast side going full out heater up to start of 1st then 40% heater for 3:30 to end of roast but the answer will be in the cup. If shots are a bit too aggressive after 4 to 6 days rest, try extending start of 1st to end of roast time a bit. For roasts intended for straight shot espresso I've been slowing the ramp rate beginning 20f before anticipated start of 1st, and target 4:30 start of first to end of roast. I can't give a direct profile input correlation since using CCR HotTop control. Have only been using the CCR HotTop a couple weeks so have a lot more work fine tuning specific profiles for various blends and SOs. Currently using similar end of roast profile for espresso I'd been using profiling with the Rosto. So far I'd say results have varied from equal to better than 5+ years Caffe' Rosto profiled roasts.

[Fullsack]

Second Crack @ 12:08 (Juuuuuusssst start a couple of pops of second)
Eject at 12:30 (Wanted to make sure I was really right at beginings of second crack, that is why I didn't eject RIGHT at above, still learning)

So, is this fast for the Hottop B?

The KN-8828B has an auto mode that allows a modification of the roast parameters. There is a section in the Hottop manual entitled Coffee Varieties and Roast Styles. An excerpt from that section reads, "...when learning to use the Hottop roaster, ...start with 19 minutes on the KN-8828D..."

I would think that the auto mode of the "B" would be the same as the programmed profile in the "D." Try starting with 250 grams, set to the Auto Mode and modify the time parameter to 19:00 minutes. It may be a good generic starting point from which to build something more customized.

You can see a copy of the manual online at http://www.hottopusa.com.

[Fullsack]

LOL!

Me too. The Hottop programmable price had me thinking for a while but I'm glad I gave in and got one. I really like the roasts from the Hottop better than the iRoast2, which I got about 300 roasts out of before it started going.

Kirk,
After reading your "I'm glad," about the programmable, I bit the bullet and ordered the programmable upgrade for my KN-8828. This will get interesting when we can compare notes on different profiles.

[Randy G.]

The KN-8828B has an auto mode that allows a modification of the roast parameters. There is a section in the Hottop manual entitled Coffee Varieties and Roast Styles. An excerpt from that section reads, "...when learning to use the Hottop roaster, ...start with 19 minutes on the KN-8828D..."

Keep in mind that the manual was, in part, written with the novice roaster in mind as that suggestion.. err... suggests.

I would think that the auto mode of the "B" would be the same as the programmed profile in the "D." Try starting with 250 grams, set to the Auto Mode and modify the time parameter to 19:00 minutes. It may be a good generic starting point from which to build something more customized. You can see a copy of the manual online at http://www.hottopusa.com.

With the "B" model, you can start an auto roast, and at the end, if you have made any changes to any parameter, you will be given the opportunity to save that roast in one of the memory areas. And I agree that if someone is trying to get a feel for the Hottop B model, that 19:00 and 250g is a good starting place.