Hope springs eternal

[HB]

Why do I do this to myself? Every so often a new cafe opens in our area and I feel compelled to check it out. My wife rolls her eyes and braces for my litany of complaints about the state of the public espresso scene. I've resisted two shop openings of late. One shop owner even invited me via e-mail after noting my location from my CoffeeGeek profile (Cafe Kado). I should stop by as it's only 2 miles from my office and directly on the way home.

But tonight's entry isn't about Cafe Kado. I was out for ice cream with my youngest son as a reward for good behavior today. My wife suggested I take him to a new ice cream shop a few miles away "right next to a new cafe called It's a Grind." Lately I've been squirreled away at the office or home office and hadn't notice this new row of restaurants and shops; it sounded like a great idea.



The ice cream store and cafe are side-by-side. If you need wireless access, the Grind prominently advertises that they're your hot spot. It's a narrow shop with nicely decorated interior. A case of pastries fronted by curved glass greets you within the first 10 feet of the door, followed by a three group Faema. I peered around the corner to check it out. My son was far less subtle, skirting the "no fly zone" behind the counter to look up at the espresso machine (he commented, "Wow! That is really big!"). The barista politely shooed him away.

"So, who is your roaster?" I queried.
"We're a chain and roast our own. It's microroasted to assure freshness. It's not burnt coffee like some other chains," she confided.
"Cool. So what kind of espresso machine is this? Is it an HX?" I posed as a trick question.
"What's that?" (red flag number 1)
"It means it's a heat exchanger. Do you flush before each extraction?" I offer helpfully. She nods and my hopes rise.

By this time junior is crawling under the chairs near the front of the store. Something to do with imitating a spinning Ninja Turtle. I figure it's now or never and order a double espresso. "Decaf?" she suggests (red flag number 2). "No thanks, straight up is fine," I reply, figuring there's a 80% chance it's going in the sink anyway, and may as well give her the best shot at a decent drink. "OK, if you're sure. Do you want a twelve ounce cup to leave room for sugar and milk?" (red flag number 3). "No thanks, do you have a demitasse?" I ask, worrying that my 80% chance of disappointment just spiked to 95%. "We've got a couple of these [shows straight sided demitasse], though nobody ever asks for them." (red flag number 4).

This conversation took place while I was in clear view of the working side of the three group, but I had to excuse myself for a moment to stop my spinning offspring before something got broken. By the time I returned, she already had locked and loaded, drawing the double into two small stainless steel pitchers instead of directly into the demitasse (red flag number 5). As we watch the blond, thin stream finish at 21 seconds (red flag number 6), she asks, "Are you in the coffee business?" I murmur something about a consumer website on coffee, nothing specific, as thoughts of how to politely pass on the espresso swirl in my mind. I think she may have heard me muttering about underextraction and incorrect temperatures because after she transfers the contents of the two pitchers into the demitasse, she comments that it looks better than the whitish color of most pours (red flag number 7). I recoil at the thought that this woeful sample represents a pleasant surprise for her, an extraction that on appearance alone would be rushed to the sink at my place.

Why why why... hope springs eternal, maybe it's not as bad as it looks. Indeed, it wasn't the absolutely worse espresso to pass by my lips, but it would share company with the major disappointments: Thin, slightly sour, hints of ash and wet cardboard. The barista hurried to other tasks moments after handing me the demitasse. She was nowhere to be found and my impatient charge was tugging at my arm asking for ice cream. I placed two dollars under the saucer and left the drink on the counter next to the cash register, to all appearances untouched.

Chris said it well:

I still tell folk that if they prefer the grocery store bin coffee then they have my sincere, green-eyed monster jealousy. Oh, to be back in the day when I could fall in love with a grocery store bean out of my Krups steamtoy. Life was much simpler then, and I loved my shots out of that thing as much as I love my shots out of the Astoria. I like the Astoria shots much better now, I just didn't have it then...

My wife had no patience for my story this evening, simply saying "You're always disappointed. Why do you bother?" I protested there's a couple cafes in the city I like... and at least the ice cream next to It's Swill was very good (cappuccino chocolate chip and "Superman" multi-colored ice cream for about six bucks).

[cannonfodder]

My son (now 7) enjoys a cappuccino on occasion and has become accustom to my espresso. Like you, he occasionally tags along and we visit a new cafe to the same end as yours.

I do remember one visit. We ordered a couple of cappuccinos, biscotti and sat at the counter bar beside the machine. We split the biscotti took a sip (not very good) and dipped our biscotti. After a couple of sips, with the person behind the counter standing close by, he looks at me with a puzzled face that only a 6 year old can produce and proclaims 'Dad, this isn't very good. I like yours a lot better'. I don't know what the 'barista' thought but I almost fell off the stool. From the mouths of babes the truth flows.

[mogogear]

My soon to be 5 year old - has never sipped any of the espresso made at home every morning while she eats her cereal nearby. But she does know one thing and corrected a barista on a recent trip we me... the barist handed me my espresso and actually said " Here is you espresso sir( BAD SIGN -all numbers) and she corrected him and said- It is eSpresso with a SSSSSS!"

My hero is a 40"tall chic named Madeleine!

Great stuff D&D- Dan I couldn't imagine even drinking out if I was named Dan Kehn... It must take most of the fun out of it .....and when you do find a great shot the barista is probably not comfortable with the sudden hug!

[another_jim]

You need to adjust your expectations.

-- Remember Kaiser Bill on legislation and sausages -- never look at the way a cafe makes the stuff.
-- Does it come in a cup less than 4 ounces in size?
-- Does it smell like coffee?
-- Can you take a sip without choking or coughing?

That's pretty good, go ahead and drink. Get yourself in this frame of mind, and you'll get enjoyable shots in about 15% of all cafes, rather than about 1%

[coffeejunkie]

So I'm sitting here drinking a cup of coffee and catching up on postings for Home-Barista.com when I come across this mess of an article. What a doozy. I can only imagine the reaction the barista must have had when this guy and his kid came through the store. Talk about setting up a drink for failure. Trick questions? Red flags? How could any drink live up to this aficionado's expectations? For me, I'm just glad when a new coffee house opens near me and I have a chance to try something better than what the Green Mermaid (starbucks) is serving. Support rather than destroy is my motto.

[another_jim]

So I'm sitting here drinking a cup of coffee and catching up on postings for Home-Barista.com when I come across this mess of an article. What a doozy. I can only imagine the reaction the barista must have had when this guy and his kid came through the store. Talk about setting up a drink for failure. Trick questions? Red flags? How could any drink live up to this aficionado's expectations? For me, I'm just glad when a new coffee house opens near me and I have a chance to try something better than what the Green Mermaid (starbucks) is serving. Support rather than destroy is my motto.

Fooling yourself that the shots are good is no way to enjoy a mediocre cafe; it's just a way to mess with your mind. The trick is to both admit the coffee sucks, and enjoy it nevertheless.

[HB]

Talk about setting up a drink for failure. Trick questions? Red flags?

Huh? I showed a genuine interest in her work, didn't say anything disparaging, and promptly paid without complaint. The espresso was horrible and I should have refused to pay for it. Or better yet, employed my Starbucks strategy: Order a chai latte. My wife loves them, they're (nearly) impossible to mess up, and I enjoy the change of pace.

I would agree with your "support not destroy" admonishment if the owner of the cafe was interested. Most of the cafe owners I've met around here are utterly clueless about what constitutes good coffee. How would you 'support' such a cafe and to what end? Below are excerpts of conversations I've had over the years with local cafe owners:

Say Dan, I know you, you're the guy from CoffeeGeek! You're into espresso equipment, would you recommend a good grinder for my most discerning clientele like you? It's a new shop and I'm strapped for cash, but I can spend up to $125.

This was supposed to be a quad shot latte and it's only a single? Sorry about that, let me add a couple shots and resteam it for you.

What's a "ristretto"?

[jesawdy]

I had (have) high hopes for a shop that recently opened no less than 1 mile from my workplace. They have a Linea 2 group and a Rancilio MD50 grinder, and the coffee supplier is Counter Culture. I've ordered a straight espresso twice, and begrudgingly accepted the paper cup, the coffee was fine. I guess using real service ticks up the health inspector requirements. I find Cafe Americanos can usually be a somewhat safe bet, but I typically have to stop the server from adding too much water.

My biggest complaints are the costs (Abe's pictures from NYC show cheaper prices!), the lack of real cups (perhaps I should bring my own ), and the coffee age is still somewhat suspect. In a pinch, I have bought beans there on two occasions... the espresso blend is private labeled for them, so I'm not sure if it is Toscano, but it might be. Since Geoff and others have been saying ~10 days for the new Toscano to come into its prime, I figured no problem. Well, about 2 weeks ago I passed on buying any coffee. This time I thought to ask about the roast date. The unopened package they were about to open for me was over 1 month old.

Hopefully their business will pick up, and freshness will be less of an issue in the future. They seem to be trying.

[coffeejunkie]

Wow... now you're stereotyping ALL the coffee shops you've been to? You lay claim to three examples of owners who are struggling or don't know the coffee business and somehow apply that to everyone but Starbucks? You don't meet the owners, you sneak into shops and harass employees with wild questions and then sneak out leaving money on the counter, never saying a word about how they can improve. You're the critic that produces nothing, but bashes everything.
You have just enough information about coffee to be dangerous! You should stop going to coffee houses and just drink tea at home. What a minute... you do. Chai tea. So much for credentials.

[HB]

You're the critic that produces nothing, but bashes everything.

I don't believe so, but let's try to turn this into a productive discussion. I renew my prior question:

Most of the cafe owners I've met around here are utterly clueless about what constitutes good coffee. How would you 'support' such a cafe and to what end?

[Psyd]

"I'd like a decaf doppio, please, and a half-a pound of the espresso blend." (long story, but I'm one of the guys who won't quit just because he's hit his personal caffeine limits!) "Uhm, what?" "Double espresso, decaf." "Uhm, ok..."
"How long ago was the espresso blend roasted?"
"Uh, well, I guess about and hour ago"
"Nice, I guess that is fresh roasted"
"So, what's the blend on the espresso beans?" "Uhm, it's a drink made with blended ice." (they call their frappe-like cold drinks 'Blends')
"Uhm, no, I mean what beans are used to make up the espresso blend"
"I think it's French Roast"
"You French roast your espresso blend?"
"No, I mean, I don't know...it's, uhm, er... roasted." At this point there are so many red flags I'm starting to feel like an unruly bull in Madrid.
"You own a coffee-shop, hunh?!?"

I think I broke her, 'cause she moved back home. In other news, though, it seems that the roaster knows what he's doing, his partner (wife? Girlfriend?) and he are both knowledgeable and friendly, and they're actual coffee people. Shame about the girl, she did have some skills, and the rest coulda come easily...[/quote]

[peacecup]

Well, time to chime in. It is rare that I get a better espresso at a cafe than I make at home. And this includes several trips to Seattle, and elsewhere in the "States", in addition to Juneau, Alaska, where, admittedly, choices are limited. And I have had some skilled baristas make me espresso in Seattle.

Some random grinds for the knockbox:

Dan and a few others at HB have contributed substantially to improving home espresso in this country. I've seldom seen these forums anything less than constructive, largely because of good moderators.

I think part of the problem is we tend to get good at making the kind of drink we like, so its difficult for an average barista to hit that target.

I'll also agree with Jim that lowering expectations is key (to both coffee and most other important things in life) - enjoy cafe experience for what it is, and be pleasantly surprised if the coffee tastes good.

If its in a paper cup it automatically sucks. It probably still has caffeine in it, but cocca, sugar, and whipped cream may be required.

Sorry Dan, espresso does not come with a money-back guarantee. Let the buyer beware.

Cafe and coffee, although they may mean the same thing in different languages, are not equal - just because a business owner puts an espresso machine in his/her shop, it does not mean that they have any interest in making good espresso. A good cafe is a place to meet, read, talk, discuss political subversion, etc. Good coffee is just good coffee.

And this reminds me of a point I've tried to make when people ask advice on HB about how to get into espresso making. It takes very little to raise the bar above the average cafe. In my opinion the average HB member has gotten so good at brewing home espresso that they've forgotten just how much of an improvement a cheap pump machine is compared to a bad cafe espresso in a paper cup.


PC

[Psyd]

Some random grinds for the knockbox:
its difficult for an average barista to hit that target.

I'm pretty tolerant. All I ask is that it doesn't suck. The decaf that I got wasn't what I could pull, but it showed that someone had given her some instruction with the machine. It was perfectly acceptable, and just needed a bit of sugar, which I applied, and enjoyed the drink.

If its in a paper cup it automatically sucks.

Sometimes the best thing about espresso is that I can call up a barista when I haven't time to sit and enjoy a cup, but want to have one none the less, and can swing in, throw some cash on the bar, grab my 'to go' cup and dash of to an early call. Most of 'em would trust me with their porcelain, but why bother? I can get really good shots that come in a paper cup...

just because a business owner puts an espresso machine in his/her shop, it does not mean that they have any interest in making good espresso.

While true, it shouldn't be. It takes so little to make decent coffee that they shouldn't be putting nearly that effort into making something that is horrible. If I go to a business that makes some or part of their money providing a service or a product, it really isn't that unreasonable to expect the product or service to meet some minimal industry standards of quality. There are very few areas of any commercial venture where the entrepreneur could get into an enterprise with the expectation that they haven't the need to understand the workings of the enterprise they're getting into. Kinda reminds me of the joke, "What's the difference between a viola player and a chainsaw? If you see someone carrying a chainsaw, you have a reasonable expectation that they know how to cut a tree down."

And this reminds me of a point I've tried to make when people ask advice on HB about how to get into espresso making. It takes very little to raise the bar above the average cafe.

This is what we're talking about. This is not a good thing. This is a bad thing. What we're discussing is how we can make it better. Learning to drink swill or abstaining aren't my two favorite solutions. Either you start to try to make the world a better place, or you accept something less than mediocrity. I'll choose the former, given a choice.

It ain't even worth two cents, but make of it what you will.

[Randy G.]

Not aimed at anyone, but generally, I feel like ranting a bit... Just a bit...

I have tried to make the coffee word a better place- that is, to turn people on to the difference between bad and good coffee. How? I give away a lot of fresh, home roasted coffee... Probaly in the area of 15 or 20 pounds a year, about a half pound at a time. Some of it is decent blends of SO of good quality stuff- all Arabica. Some is just sweep. Still, the universal response is that it is the best coffee they have ever tasted. Some of these folks have been all over the world. Others not so much. That's strike one against the "coffee establishment." And anyone who will listen I talk about coffee- how to find good coffee, what it should look like after roasting, how to find fresh, why fresh is important, and all that I can think of as long as they are attentive.

I have tried to talk to coffee shop folks about their coffee, but if you get proverbially slapped in the face a few times you get a bit gun shy. I once watched as a customer returned to complain that his ten or twelve ounce latte/choco/thingy drink was bitter and needed sugar to be drinkable. Instead of offering the customer a new drink the shop OWNER told him he had ordered the wrong drink. I was sitting at a table, drinking a cappa at the time and it was indeed quite bad- bitter and generally a lot nastier than just about anything I had ever made at home with a Silvia and a Rocky. It was the last time I went in there. On a previous visit when I had ordered a mocha smoothie on a hot summer day that a mocha was not coffee and chocolate. "What is it then?" I asked. I was told, "I don't know, but it isn't chocolate and coffee." And it was in a very condescending tone as well.

A line I used years ago (that I now see as a sig here, not that I am claiming it as my creation) is "life's too short to drink bad coffee." So why do people do it? I partly blame the Starbucks reality. I dislike Starbucks not so much for their bad coffee but for the opportunity they had to educate the American public as to what good coffee really could be. Instead they went off on the MacDonalds model, and spent their efforts to make as much money as possible selling unhealthy drinks. They could have made good coffee and a ton of cash as well, but that was the choice they made. Sad, really.

Ask just about anyone who is not an enthusiast about espresso and they will tell you that is is really strong, and bitter coffee. Where do they get such ideas? Through mis-education and bad coffee. When a home coffee enthusiast can enjoy really great coffee, every time, for an equipment investment of around $450 (off the top of my head let's say a Baratza Virtuoso, a Hearthware iRoast2, and an Aeropress), or even quite a bit less why can't coffee shops all over th country do the same with their commercial equipment? because they don't really know or care. Why? They don't have to. Why? Because the customers don't care. How do I know? Go to a city at around 6am to 8am and look at the lines at a Starbucks. To say the customers do not care is not as accurate as saying that they don't know. it doesn't matter- the lines form just the same.

On the other hand, to think that all coffee shops will or can be taught to make good coffee is unrealistic- as much so as thinking that you will be able to get a great steak, properly cooked at MacDonalds. There is mainstream and there is gourmet. Many of the former and few of the latter. It will always be so.

As far as trying to educate shop owners. it's a noble effort, and one worth undertaking, but they receive plenty of leads to do so- I have to assume that they receive plenty of trade journals and emails urging them to take training courses, join SCAA, etc. Any effort we make is a drop of water in the cup, but you never know. Maybe reaching one will help keep one from going out of business. Maybe not. The shop owner I mentioned earlier? He's gone and so is the shop.

[another_jim]

As far as trying to educate shop owners. it's a noble effort, and one worth undertaking, but they receive plenty of leads to do so- I have to assume that they receive plenty of trade journals and emails urging them to take training courses, join SCAA, etc. Any effort we make is a drop of water in the cup, but you never know. Maybe reaching one will help keep one from going out of business. Maybe not. The shop owner I mentioned earlier? He's gone and so is the shop.

This reflects an odd discussion going on at coffeed about why the SCAA doesn't do public promotions for specialty coffee. The short answer is that most members won't pay for it, since their coffee isn't very special. The discussion is odd since it's SCAA officials and cafe owners doing the discussing.

[Psyd]

Not aimed at anyone, but generally, I feel like ranting a bit... Just a bit...

Goat head! We can take it, 's'why we're here!

On the other hand, to think that all coffee shops will or can be taught to make good coffee is unrealistic- as much so as thinking that you will be able to get a great steak, properly cooked at MacDonalds.

Yahbut, if you go to a place that has an espresso or coffee themed name, and the thing that gets your eye when you walk through the door is the beautiful huge espresso machine, set there to catch your eye, shouldn't you have a reasonable expectation of some sort of quality from the cup? I mean, if you go to a gelato shop or an Italian restaurant and they happen to have an espresso machine, that's one thing, but if you go to a coffee shop?
If you go to Morton's, and the steak sucks, or is charbroiled to a crunchy consistency, you should send it back, right? And if the waiter or the chef give you a rash for sending it back, you should have the right to bad mouth 'em, right? I mean, it's kind of a duty to your steak-loving friends to warn them that this place will cook the steak poorly, and blame you if you don't like it.

As far as trying to educate shop owners. it's a noble effort, and one worth undertaking, but they receive plenty of leads to do so- I have to assume that they receive plenty of trade journals and emails urging them to take training courses, join SCAA, etc. Any effort we make is a drop of water in the cup

This is why I go straight to the barista. Once they know that what they've been told is crap, they can work their magic on their drinks, and help the owner turn it around. They will at least start doing what they can to make the coffee better. IF the owner cares at all, he'll be pleased that the employee is trying to make an effort, if not, he won't be around anyhoo, and when the employee goes looking for another barista gig, he'll be looking for someplace he can do good. Yeah, it might not work, but it is the channel that stands a chance...

[Jasonian]

This reflects an odd discussion going on at coffeed about why the SCAA doesn't do public promotions for specialty coffee. The short answer is that most members won't pay for it, since their coffee isn't very special. The discussion is odd since it's SCAA officials and cafe owners doing the discussing.

http://forum.coffeed.com/viewtopic.php?t=1409

I stopped reading it once the posts started passing the 4 paragraph per post mark.

It's a long read, so get comfortable and brew up a 6-cup press before gettting started. Bring a brown-bag lunch while you're at it.

[miKe mcKoffee]

OTOH sometimes you can be pleasantly surprised in possibly unexpected places. This evening we went out for dinner and a movie. After dinner had a bit of time to kill so Debi wanted to stop by Pete's to pick-up some Mango Tea for iced tea. Often online Pete's gets lumped with Charbucks quality wise. The pleasant clerk informed us that type/level of purchase entitled us to a free cup of coffee. Debi said she's was too stuffed from dinner and didn't care for any right now, I on the other hand had had a short night's sleep so thought what the heck and asked if it could be a straight shot. He replied sure and asked if any particular way you'd like it? I replied just double shot normale pulled around 22 to 28 seconds would be fine. No problem was the reply. Of course I already knew Pete's had the equipment to produce quality shots, LM Swift Grinder and LM machine. He wasn't the barista, turned to her as she asked any special request. I replied just ceramic not paper cup please. She no problem and proceeded. Now the blend is roasted darker than I prefer though not extremely dark, a good Vienna so remained open minded to the potential since also know if pulled properly can be a quite nice shot. She handed me the cup, beautiful deep but not too dark thick crema with no hints of blonding and said as much as I took the cup. Inhaled deeply and commented on the nice fragrance. Swirled it a bit more and watched the crema persist as I took a sip. Temp about spot on for the blend, no hint of bitter or sour. Nice deep, rich and smooth taste. She asked how it was and I complimented her on the pull. After my second sip also commented their roast was a bit darker than I preferred and added that the shot was very good. She asked why lighter roast so I replied because a bit lighter brings out more varietal character of the various beans in the blend as opposed to roast notes. Did not say it in a condescending way and no one was offended. I also mentioned nothing wrong with a their darker roast for espresso just a different style. While the shot was on the house I did of course leave a deserved tip.

This was only the second time I've had a shot from Pete's. The other time was while traveling in California a couple years ago, forget where exactly but on the way back from Fort Bragg. It was also pulled well and that time Debi also had a right nice cappuccino.

[HB]

Update... I was in a nearby store and decided to stop for a snack at "It's a Grind." The place was hopping with almost all the tables taken inside and outside in the adjoining courtyard. I may complain about the state of espresso in our town, but there were lots of happy customers enjoying beverages and snacks. Their selection of pastries was good, the staff was super polite, even offering to warm up the muffin I ordered.

While I can't recommend them for espresso aficionados, the rest of the menu selections looked appealing and the atmosphere was inviting. My wife's been there a couple times and noted it's also been busy, though she prefers the chai lattes at Panera Bread.