Home roasting - what's the big deal? - Page 2

[niad]

I am drinking the best coffee in months this week. It is homeroasted with one third of each, Monsooned Malabar, Kamerun Robusta and Brasilian Santos. I am a total roast newbie but i read some articles and guides and now on my second try i got it right, thats for sure. Wow, what shall come from this in the future, i never thought it would be this good. Started drinking from the roast after the fifth day and it is simply among the best coffee i have had. It is easy, fast and well worth the work to roast at home.

niklas
sweden

[Worldman]

Nik,

Tell me, please (I am even "newer" than a newbie) do you roast all three (3) beans together - OR - do you roast them seperately and blend them after roast.

Do most of you guys who roast, roast the blends together, i.e. all the beans in the roast are blended BEFORE roasting. How do you deal with different roasting profiles? Or, are they the same?

Len

[niad]

I have up until now just roasted them together. I have read that the Monsoon Malabar shall taste better if you roast some of it a bit lighter though. I will roast today again and then i will try to roast at least some of them separately to get out the flavours even more. I will come back and tell if it made any difference. It would also be fun to just put the oven to 225 degrees celsius (sweden) and wait for the first and second pop and be done. Just to compare. The last time now i roasted first on 225 degrees til the first pop and then lowered to 195 and waited for some oil on the beans and then took it up again to 225 and when i heard the pops again i took them out, it took about 25 minutes in all.

[miKe mcKoffee]

Nik,

Tell me, please (I am even "newer" than a newbie) do you roast all three (3) beans together - OR - do you roast them seperately and blend them after roast.

Do most of you guys who roast, roast the blends together, i.e. all the beans in the roast are blended BEFORE roasting. How do you deal with different roasting profiles? Or, are they the same?

Len

Here are some blending articles & threads that may be of interest...
http://www.sweetmarias.com/blending.html
http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-blending.html
http://www.roastmagazine.com/back...ndingtherules.html

[pauljolly65]

I just don't see the need to roast my own when freshly roasted beans are available to me at will (as long as I drive to the roastery or a couple of coffee bars to get them). One supposes that most of you also have decent local roasters. Why then do you home roast? What is the advantage?

World, if you don't like to do things yourself, then don't bother. (I don't mean that to sound snappish; there are many things which I too pay others to do for me which I could do myself, so I'm right there with you to a certain extent.) Great locally roasted coffee, if good enough to suit one's tastes & curiosity, will add it's small dimension to a happy life. Personally, I love trying to do things myself...which is why I started roasting back in '01 or '02. Now I can't even look back. The variety of beans available to me as a homeroaster keeps my mind active and my taste buds interested!

I would suppose that you could also say, 'Why pull your own shots if the local espresso bar has a dialed-in three group La Marzocco which can produce better espresso than your home machine will ever do?' Why do it? Because I want to learn about it myself and see how good I can get. And save some $...a LOT of $, given my three-doubles-a-day habit. But it sure ain't for everybody....

Cheers,
Paul

[Worldman]

World, if you don't like to do things yourself, then don't bother. (I don't mean that to sound snappish; there are many things which I too pay others to do for me which I could do myself, so I'm right there with you to a certain extent.) Great locally roasted coffee, if good enough to suit one's tastes & curiosity, will add it's small dimension to a happy life. Personally, I love trying to do things myself...which is why I started roasting back in '01 or '02. Now I can't even look back. The variety of beans available to me as a homeroaster keeps my mind active and my taste buds interested!

I would suppose that you could also say, 'Why pull your own shots if the local espresso bar has a dialed-in three group La Marzocco which can produce better espresso than your home machine will ever do?' Why do it? Because I want to learn about it myself and see how good I can get. And save some $...a LOT of $, given my three-doubles-a-day habit. But it sure ain't for everybody....

hmmmm...Do I like to do things for myself? hmmm...

Perhaps not. I am not sure. I DO like to make my own espresso/cappuccino, etc. - but that is mostly because it is better here at home than anywhere else except the occasional visit to certain coffee bars when certain barista are on duty and pulling good shots that night. In other words, it is too much of a crap shoot going to coffee bars and I drink too much coffee to go so often. (It is only 08:20 here now and I have already had 3 shots!)

It occurs to me that I would (might?) have too much anxiety if I were roasting my own because I would then worry about the beans and their provenance, the roast profile/times, cooling time/method, blending ratio, etc. All of this is juxtaposed against finding a local roaster whose product suits my taste (which I have already done almost 20 years back).

Another of my (too many) per peeves is roast coffee inconsistency. Whether it is Intelly's Black Cat (which can range from GREAT to pretty mediocre) or La Prima's FTO (which has been off 2 times in my usage of it) to their Miscella Bar (which also goes from GREAT to mediocre) to Counter Culture's Espresso (which can range from pretty good to pretty uninteresting) the roast coffee bean consistency is not spot on - ALL THE TIME.

I wonder if I would be able to maintain adequate consistency if I were roasting my own little ¼ pound batch? My suspicion is: NOT.

Len

[pauljolly65]

It occurs to me that I would (might?) have too much anxiety if I were roasting my own because I would then worry about the beans and their provenance, the roast profile/times, cooling time/method, blending ratio, etc.

I know what you mean. I've had several batches which went bad (mostly earlier in my roasting days) and sometimes I would rage about it....then I realized that, for me, part of the Zen of coffee roasting is being able to let go of the bad and continue the pursuit of the perfect. Many homeroasters pay astonishingly close attention to every aspect of the roast in an attempt to turn each variable into a control. More power to them, but really it's all about how the coffee tastes...and I think they get it right far more often than not. Other roasters throw a few handfuls of beans into the drum and start roasting, directing the attention of their eyes, ears, and noses to the beans rather than the clock, the Variac, and the thermometer. More power to them, too, but again it's all about the cup.

Another of my (too many) pet peeves is roast coffee inconsistency. Whether it is Intelly's Black Cat (which can range form GREAT to pretty mediocre) or La Prima's FTO (which has been off 2 times in my usage of it) to their Miscella Bar (which also goes from GREAT to mediocre) to Counter Culture's Espresso (which can range from pretty good to pretty uninteresting) the roast coffee bean consistency is not spot on - ALL THE TIME.

For true, 'Man, for true. I like the variation that I get with homeroasting much, much more than the variation I get when I shell out $15 for a pound which someone else has had the fun of cooking up. I've got a few blends which I think I really know how to roast, and which are consistently good. But I spend far more of my roast time dabbling in various SOs, seeking each coffee's sweet spot. It doesn't always work: right now, I'm finishing up a pound of Yemen Sana'ani which I roasted too light, and I notice the sour taste in each cup. However, I've got the Colombian Cauca La Esperanza at home, and I know it's spot-on.

Good thread, World. It's got us all thinking, I hope!

Cheers,
Paul

[miKe mcKoffee]

It occurs to me that I would (might?) have too much anxiety if I were roasting my own because I would then worry about the beans and their provenance,

That's easily handled by buying ones greens from a very picky cupper like Tom of Sweet Maria's.

the roast profile/times, cooling time/method, blending ratio, etc. All of this is juxtaposed against finding a local roaster whose product suits my taste (which I have already done almost 20 years back).

When I started home roasting six years ago I could not and was not having consistent good luck ordering via Internet. But times have changed yet there's no going back!

Another of my (too many) per peeves is roast coffee inconsistency. Whether it is Intelly's Black Cat (which can range from GREAT to pretty mediocre) or La Prima's FTO (which has been off 2 times in my usage of it) to their Miscella Bar (which also goes from GREAT to mediocre) to Counter Culture's Espresso (which can range from pretty good to pretty uninteresting) the roast coffee bean consistency is not spot on - ALL THE TIME.

I wonder if I would be able to maintain adequate consistency if I were roasting my own little ¼ pound batch? My suspicion is: NOT.

Who can say whether you could or could not achieve desired consistency. I know many who can, including myself. But you gotta enjoy the process!

[WhyGirl]

Why cook a meal when you can get take-out food? Why play an instrument with the world's greatest music in your CD collection? In fact, why participate in any amateur endeavor when a professional product is available for purchase?

Quite simply, I home roast for the love of it. It's part of my ongoing passion for coffee. There are endless possibilities for wonder, enjoyment and satisfaction in coffee roasting, just as in coffee brewing.
________
John

....Why cook a meal when you can get take-out food? ...... 1. cause it cost more. 2. home cook taste better. 3. take out just cant compare with home cook!.

....Why play an instrument with the world's greatest music in your CD collection... cause listen to your self play music are different than listen to a CD ....also the enjoyment of it!

But yeah I get your point.

[Randii]

....Why cook a meal when you can get take-out food? ...... 1. cause it cost more. 2. home cook taste better. 3. take out just cant compare with home cook!.

....Why play an instrument with the world's greatest music in your CD collection... cause listen to your self play music are different than listen to a CD ....also the enjoyment of it!

But yeah I get your point.

1. That depends on who's doing the cooking and. . .
2. If you can't play the instrument, it's not enjoyable!

I just had this conversation this morning with one of our local roasters - who is giving a presentation this weekend on home roasting. I asked him, "why would I want to home roast?" His metaphor was, "you can buy fresh bread or you can bake your own bread". I don't roast, because there are *at least* 5 local roasters in and around the Pasadena area, where I can always get beans freshly roasted on the same day (just like the bread I buy from our local bakeries - it's almost like living in France!). It appears to be such a rare privilege to have local coffee roasters nearby, so I think it's better to support our local coffee roasters (and other local artisans), instead of trying to do for myself what they do best. I want to keep our local coffee roasters in business, so I can CHOOSE to roast - not HAVE TO roast!

[CoffeeOwl]

how to do the north italian roast, let's say with Gene Cafe? I mean when to stop? at the first crack? I mean: I don't want it too dark. (and I am a newbie to roasting)
Pawel

[Abdon]

how to do the north italian roast, let's say with Gene Cafe? I mean when to stop? at the first crack? I mean: I don't want it too dark. (and I am a newbie to roasting)
Pawel

You may be looking at it from the wrong end. At best the 'North Italian roast' is a gross generalization of a particular roast level; I guess it means a lighter roast as compared to gross generalizations of another roast level. At worst is just meaningless marketing sound bites used as a placebo for real understanding of coffee matters. Heck, offering somebody between a North Italian style roasted coffee or the Vienna style roasted coffee (instead of just saying light versus dark roast) has to be worth another 50 cents a cup

To actually answer the question: the term that you are using means quite different things to different people. The light end of it could be argued to be somewhere around City+ roast (which could be argued to be about a minute after the end of first crack) with the dark end around Full City+ roast (which could be argued to be somewhere shortly after second crack). In between those extremes, there is quite a lot of ground to cover.

The point of roasting is to extract a particular character from a particular bean for a particular purpose. 'North Italy roasting' one particular bean may be disgusting, 'North Italy roasting' another may be the ticket to heaven. Think of them like meat; roasting ribs for six hours, good idea. Roasting chicken for six hours, bad idea

It is more sensible to start with the roast level recommended by your green bean provider and then to experiment from there. Aiming for a roast level for no other purpose than to achieve that roast level works only when luck is involved.

[CoffeeOwl]

Abdon, thank you very much!
I'm a complete newbie to home roasting yet I only knew I'd want to roast to such level, to get the most of the flavour of any beans and not to loose anything. Yes I know it's a generalization (and a gross one).
But luckily I found articles about roast levels on sweet maria's so at least I may say I started learning

There was a poll about the need for home roasting forum... yes we do need!
And in commentaries someone said it's good to taste some great coffees before starting your own roasting - please advice me on some...

[ppopp]

Len -

Let me answer your question in a slightly different way. Clearly there is no shortage of people here who will stand up and say they will never look back after trying home roasting. But I have never read a post where someone has said they're giving up on home roasting, for any reason, and going back to buying commercial roasts. And I keep a pretty close eye on the roasting forums here and elsewhere. From this it seems clear to me that there is a "big deal". The only thing left to do now is git yourself an iR2 or a popper or a Gene or a HotTop or whatever... and some beans from Sweet Marias and figure out what the big deal is for you. For me, besides being fun, I like knowing exactly how fresh my beans are, frequently changing the beans I'm drinking (for drip coffee), and never getting home on Friday night and then realizing that I forgot to stop at the roasters and I'm out of beans for Satuday morning.

To answer some of your specific concerns, I've been roasting for about a year now with an iRoast2, and I have yet to produce a single batch that wasn't tasty and drinkable. If you do your research on the peculiarities of your roaster, the learning curve is very short. Regarding consistency, you can very quickly get to the point where your roasts are more consistent than you will get from most commerical roasters. And regarding the provenance of your beans, if you get your greens from quality online suppliers like Sweet Marias, you can be much more certain of their lineage than you can from commercial roasters. Very few commercial roasters specify the source/region/farm/co-op/crop as clearly as quality green suppliers. And it's much harder to hide faults with greens than with roasted beans.

[Abdon]

CoffeeOwl,

The first step on learning to roast is to learn to brew consistently. Strangely enough (even here) some people don't take their brewing seriously enough; pulling a bad shot/pot/cup here and there is considered a part of the game, to be remedied by brewing another shot/pot/cup and hoping for the best. Learning to roast while at the same time dealing with inconsistent brewing will hinder your progress significantly.

The second step is to learn to roast consistently. This means being able to roast one bean to a particular degree of your choosing time after time. This is were a lot of folks (even here) do not take roasting seriously enough; most beans will be fine throughout a wide window of opportunity. They will roast, it will taste good, and they will be happy. They will roast again, it will taste different but still good, and they will still be happy. To learn consistency you need a system that can be calibrated (such as a variac for electricity-driven roasters), the ability to gather data (timer, thermometer), and a roast log. Trust me you want the log; it may not give you much information now, but once you learn more you will multiply your learning. The log becomes a window into previous roasts, one you can revisit every time you learn something new.

You can learn everything you need to learn about basic roasting from a single (type of) bean. As a matter of fact I would strongly advice that you stick to mild mannered single-source beans for your early experimentation. Blends will hinder your learning because you will not know where the funk may be coming from. Also, with a single source it is a lot easier to fine tune your consistency. Keep in mind that what applies to one coffee bean doesn't necessarily translates to another one. Treat each lot (even from year to year) as their own little world and research what others are saying about the peculiarities of your particular bean. My recommendations for mild mannered would be Costa Rican La Minita Tarrazu, a nice Kenyan if you like acidity, or a mellow Brazilian (soft bean, easy roast).

At some point you will find that you like some of the things you find on your light roast, and some of the characters when it is darker. Welcome to the world of blending! Volumes can be written on this subject, but the basics are simple; you are changing some aspect of the cup, hopefully for the better. Once again a single (type of) bean can teach you quite a lot. Roast one lot for bean character (light), another lot for roast character (darker), blend to taste (50/50, 75/25,etc). Even if you taste it and think that the blend sucked, congratulations, you just made your first judgment call on a blend!

Above all, relax and have a cup of coffee. You can learn everything you need to learn for basic roasting in a few hours, enough to ensure fresh premium roasted coffee on your jar. Perfection, is what can take the rest of your life.

[CoffeeOwl]

Thank you!
As far for brewing, I'm on my way for year and a half, starting point was low (I'll post it on the hall of shame), but I am a willing to learn person so now I'm just waiting for my new machine to arrive

[alsterlingcafe]

Ken, I used to live in Chubbuck, next to Pocatello. Fun times! (NOT) We run a 2 group Synesso here, used to have a Linea. We fresh-roast coffee to order, no drip, press-pot only. I agree with your findings in SLC. After hitting places like Vivace, Lighthouse, Hines, etc.; the only way for us to enjoy a great espresso was to open our own place. Drop me a line anytime.

John, my wife joined me a couple months back on a biz trip to SLC. We stayed at the Homewood Sts., near the Rio Grande Bldg., and I discovered a small, new espresso shop across from the hotel. Wonder if you've met the owner? We did stop at your shop, and spoke with your wife. You were out at the time and I couldn't make it back. But I'll be in SLC again and will definitely stop by again!

And Len.......I've been home roasting for a couple years now, since returning from my first coffee trip to Brasil. Frankly, I know great roasters, and Len, I'll never be a great, or even mediocre roaster! I have other battles to fight. But I have found a way to use my Hottop to roast my Malabar Gold green and Emerald Mist blend green (from Chas. Weber at CoffeeWholesalers, Eugene OR), and get very near the resulting brewed taste of the MBG that Dr. John sells roasted. I used to buy larger quantities from Dr. John, roasted, but if I didn't use it all here at home, it was wasted. I do home roasting for inventory control, and because I can quickly roast SO's sent to me from our family ranches and neighbors in Brasil.

I have been known to go to Kean Coffee, Martin Diedrich's shop, in Costa Mesa, and buy his espresso blend. It's great, and I can taste the years and years of his roasting experience in every extraction. Just an observation... I have said from the beginning that the "retail espresso business" and "roasting" should be respected as two very separate separate business units. I smile every time I see a retailer that seperates and pulls his roaster out of his high dollar/sq. ft. retail space and starts with a small industrial lease bldg. for roasting. I think John's roasting setup in SLC is in the back of the store, right?

Hope all is well in Pittsburgh! Al (I may be out again in October for a sales meeting...?)

[mgrayson]

But I have never read a post where someone has said they're giving up on home roasting, for any reason, and going back to buying commercial roasts.

I may have abandoned home roasting - it's been a while. For espresso, I just can't compete with the fabulous blends from Ecco, PTs, and others. My drip roasting is pathetic compared to Cafe Novo. Yes, it's more expensive, especially with shipping, but this La Alondra by the keyboard is really really good.

Matt