Help! My shots are bubbly.

[iflawdya]

Hi,
I got a Miss Silvia for Christmas with a Rocky grinder. I have been trying real hard to get down all the techniques that everyone has suggested.
Just when I thought things were getting slightly better they got worse. For the past two days the extractions have been very bubbly. It almost seems like the water is boiling when coming out. I know this is not normal. I am using the Black Pearl coffee that they sent with the machine. My Rocky is zeroed at zero and I have it set at 8.
Any suggestions would be great. Also how do you know the shot is good if you have never tasted a good shot?

My wife thinks that it takes to much work to get one cup of espresso and that I should just return it. lol

Thanks in advance
Steve

[jesawdy]

IMO, bubbly isn't necessarily an indication of a bad shot. I assume you mean that the crema has lots of large bubbles. Large bubbles are common with unrested coffee (meaning it hasn't rested long enough to off gas, most people wait 2-4 days) and also with bottomless portafilters. With a regular portafilter, some of the big bubbles break up as they hit the bottom of the portafilter and the spout.

[dsc]

Hi Steve

I recently bought an espresso mix of robusta and arabica and also noticed that I get a lot of bubbles in my crema. I was a bit worried that such thing happens and tried to figure out why. I checked the grind and how hard I tamp and it turned out I was tamping with too much force, 60lbs instead of 30:) So now I grind finer and tamp lighter and I don't get bubbles at all. Maybe try that and check the tamping force with a bathroom scale. I was really surprised how little 30lbs is (around 13kg).

Also how do you know the shot is good if you have never tasted a good shot?

I have the same problem here, although I noticed that when tamping with 30lbs (instead of 60lbs) and grinding finer gives coffee which is better in taste.

My wife thinks that it takes to much work to get one cup of espresso and that I should just return it. lol

My mum says the same:)


jesawdy wrote:

Large bubbles are common with...and also with bottomless portafilters.

Funny cause I had bubbling with a normal PF and had none with a NPF.

HTH,
Cheers,
dsc.

[RegulatorJohnson]

Also how do you know the shot is good if you have never tasted a good shot?

if it tastes good. for me espresso tastes good when im drinking it. then it tastes REALLY good after a few seconds later, the aftertaste evolves and blooms. this aftertaste can last for 45 minutes or more.

bubbly crema can be from fresh beans that need to rest a bit more. i notice this by having 5 lbs of the same coffee. i got it warm from the roaster and it took about 2 weeks to get through it all. the crema started bubbly then around 7-10 it goes away. i think this is the lattice crema that schomer talks about.

sometimes it has been said that water that is too soft can possibly make large bubbles in the crema also. i noticed it happening because i had some coffee that is about 7-10 days and the crema has small bubbles. then i recharged the water softener can the large crema bubbles appeared.

i think large bubbles can be caused by more than one thing, as seems to be the case with a lot of espresso related phenomenon/myths/legends.

it it tastes good. who cares about the bubbles. they do get in the way for latte art. so i will swirl and tap the cup to pop those bubbles if needed.

jon

[iflawdya]

Thanks for all the replies. I just want to clarify that the bubbles are coming out of the portafilter during extraction. It is not a steady stream.
As for the tamp pressure I did use the bathroom scale. I will try to get some pictures up. Its just a big mess coming out of the basket.

Thanks,Steve

[edwa]

The bubbles coming out of the PF are they dropping or do they hang from the ends? I ask because you reminded me of a line in Schomer's book where he talks about the streams bending from surface tension and that being a sympton of distribution and tamp problems. I may be remembering that incorrectly though.

Are you doing the WDT? I know you've read this before but, Silvia is finicky. Still if it tastes okay give yourself a break you've only had her since Xmas and you've really just begun the journey with Ms. Silvia.

What kind of tamp are you using? I had bought a flat bottom tamp with my Silvia and used it for 4 years then I read the article at Coffeegeek about flat vs curved bottoms and decided to give a curved bottom a try. I had immediate improvement in my shots, regardless of whether or not I did the WDT or a PF bounce.

[iflawdya]

The bubbles come out of the pf in a big sloppy mess almost like the espresso is boiling out. As far as the tamper it is a flat bottom.
I just had a yogurt so i can try the wdt. This morning i had a good extraction but the stuff was very sour to drink.
I just came back from a local roaster with a half pound of his Santo Domingo organic espresso roast. They said it was roasted 4 days ago.
The only thing that concerns me is that the beans were in a display case and was not air tight. They just lifted the lid and scooped. Does that sound normal?

Thanks,
Steve

[cannonfodder]

That sounds interesting. I don't suppose you could post a video of the bubbling espresso?

[iflawdya]

How do I upload video? I just made a 30 second clip of the extraction.

[HB]

Great! See posting videos on HB.

[iflawdya]

Here is the video of the shot I pulled today. As you can see it seems like it started of good
but it went downhill fast. Yesterday was worse.

[Jasonian]

Here is the video of the shot I pulled today. As you can see it seems like it started of good
but it went downhill fast. Yesterday was worse.

It sounds (and looks) to me like the coffee needs more rest before being used in espresso.

[HB]

As you can see it seems like it started of good but it went downhill fast.

I agree with Jasonian, although you'd think online orders would not arrive sooner than three days post-roast. Another possibility is the temperature is way too hot. It reminded me of a boiling shot from someone who forgot to flush an HX. Of course yours is a Silvia, so you should not see peak temperatures like that...

[iflawdya]

What should the temperature be at? The roaster said the beans were roasted 6 days ago.

[HB]

Six days post roast eliminates the question of degassing. Something around 201F is a good starting point. But with Silvia, if it's not PID'd, it's all about temperature surfing. You shouldn't however be seeing what appears to be boiling water emerging, temperature surfing or not.

[luca]

Are you sure that the shots aren't just plain too fast? What happens when you load more coffee into the portafilter?

[iflawdya]

The shots are too fast. If I load more coffee its hard to get the filter on. As it is when I take the filter off there is a pretty good indention from the nut in the puck.
This is very discouraging for a newbie.

[luca]

The shots are too fast. If I load more coffee its hard to get the filter on. As it is when I take the filter off there is a pretty good indention from the nut in the puck.
This is very discouraging for a newbie.

Shouldn't be a problem; just adjust your grinder finer.

Don't be discouraged; it's good news that you're picking up that something is wrong! In practice, beans will require a slightly finer grind as they age and different blends will require a different grind setting. It's all part of the skill set that you need to develop to use these machines.

Cheers,

Luca

[Jasonian]

Shouldn't be a problem; just adjust your grinder finer.

Don't be discouraged; it's good news that you're picking up that something is wrong! In practice, beans will require a slightly finer grind as they age and different blends will require a different grind setting. It's all part of the skill set that you need to develop to use these machines.

Cheers,

Luca

It's funny that all these "entry level machines" are a whole lot more difficult to use than pro-sumer machines.

The price point makes sense, but the practice makes little, if any at all.

[cannonfodder]

Well, that was at least humorous and new.

As others stated, the age of the beans should negate the "too gassy" idea. I am with Dan, your temperature is too high and the extraction is boiling when it hits the air. Just out of curiosity, you're not in the Alps or the Colorado high country where water boils at 198F are you?