Hand (grinder) Jive - a photo essay - Page 3

[prof_stack]

Greg, aren't those grinders made by Peter Deines - aka Pe De?

I sold most of the hand grinders and recently added a couple. Fun to fix 'em and use for a while and then sell them to try to find a better one. When I find the perfect grinder I'll stop.

You want a Trosser to put into the competition? You can borrow the one on the left in the above pix and then send it back or buy it for big bucks if it wins.

Wednesday at the coffee shop is fine. I don't do much alcohol at all these days. The body and mind thank me for that. It will be fun to talk with you and Hal again, and maybe Jim. I'll PM you.

[mogogear]

Greg, aren't those grinders made by Peter Deines - aka Pe De?

I assumed the same but Pe Ve and Pe De...... you and Jack are much better scholars on this than I - I might borrow a Trosser from you to throw into the mix when the Tight Hand deal gets going...... I can discuss it with you when we chat...The project would still be a ways off yet-- 3 weeks or so..

[Fullsack]

Doug, I hope you'll post a few details and photos of your hand grinders here when you can.

The collection, (work horses and show horses):



Didn't realize there were so many until I gathered them all together.

Where are you Doug?

I'm still in S.F. My house had become a construction war zone. I had to get out.

[peacecup]

Now that looks like the kind of collection, along with your different lever machines, that could really provide some insight into how these grinders work. We'll be looking forward to hearing about some of the differences - one thing I have heard is that the adjustment wheel on the top axle tends to change adjustment during grinding - have you noticed this on any?

I see you have one of the Dienes carved box mills - is that the one with the bakelite drawer that you recently bid on - mine has a plastic drawer, all of which seem to warp after time and don't fit well.

Sometime it may be worth taking side-by-side photos of some of the burrs if there are big differences.

Thanks for posting!

PC

[mogogear]

Whats the diference between PeDe and Pe Ve---- other than letters?

[ogatasan]

Doug, i am impressed by your collection.

as i am about to move country for the 5th time in 5 years i wonder if i should invest in a decent handgrinder rather than a Mazzer Mini, Super Jolly or a Maccap...

- can you or other members say something about the quality and usability of the zass mocca grinder (topleft) ?
- would you have a recommendation for a specific handgrinder (to go with the Europiccola)?
- can they keep up with a decent electric grinder in your experience? (yes, I have read the titan and other reviews)

Thanks so much,

[mogogear]

Doug and Jack will both chime in herefast!- but until then......
ogatasan, your signature line tells us you may be the perfect candidate for a hand mill- If you really like it "pure and simple"- the hand mill is the "the cats meow!" A La Pavoni Europiccola can barely do 2 shots in a row without really over heating-and most people don't own them to serve large parties so you would only grind 2 doses in a hand mill- thats about 2 minutes of total grinding with most mills! A minute or LESS for each shot- Piece of cake..

Ok Doug - take it from here...........................

[espressme]

FWW
I found that going to a hand grinder at my age does give a few interesting advantages:
1. loosens the cervical and thoracic vertebrae
2. develops shoulder, arm and pectoral muscles
3. relaxes the overtaxed hearing system!
4. makes me pay attention to the hear / here and now.

Sufficient to say; I like them!
Cheers
richard

[ogatasan]

the hand mill is the "the cats meow!"

...oh that hit me in the heart,
grinder, cat, whatelse - all purr in my arms

[mogogear]

FWW
I found that going to a hand grinder at my age does give a few interesting advantages:
1. loosens the cervical and thoracic vertebrae
2. develops shoulder, arm and pectoral muscles
3. relaxes the overtaxed hearing system!
4. makes me pay attention to the hear / here and now.

Sufficient to say; I like them!
Cheers
richard

Or Richard...... Thank you for the ZEN aspect of the "Tao of the bean" ............... "Chi- I shoulda' thought of that" Me just focusing on practicality and cost / benefit again.....

[peacecup]

Hand-ground Cafe D'Arte Firenze in a vintage Nuova Point demitasse:



PC

[Fullsack]

Now that looks like the kind of collection, along with your different lever machines, that could really provide some insight into how these grinders work. We'll be looking forward to hearing about some of the differences - one thing I have heard is that the adjustment wheel on the top axle tends to change adjustment during grinding - have you noticed this on any?

I see you have one of the Dienes carved box mills - is that the one with the bakelite drawer that you recently bid on - mine has a plastic drawer, all of which seem to warp after time and don't fit well.

Sometime it may be worth taking side-by-side photos of some of the burrs if there are big differences.

Thanks for posting!

PC

The axle wheel does turn on my grinders during grinding. I turn it back a little after each rotation.

That is the Dienes mill I recently bid on and yep, it has the same drawer as yours. I haven't used it yet. How does your Dienes perform compared to your other grinders?



The side-by-side burr photos are a good idea. Maybe other leverheads will notice differences I missed.

Doug, i am impressed by your collection.

as i am about to move country for the 5th time in 5 years i wonder if i should invest in a decent handgrinder rather than a Mazzer Mini, Super Jolly or a Maccap...

- can you or other members say something about the quality and usability of the zass mocca grinder (topleft) ?
- would you have a recommendation for a specific handgrinder (to go with the Europiccola)?
- can they keep up with a decent electric grinder in your experience? (yes, I have read the titan and other reviews)

Thanks so much,

That brass grinder is my least favorite. It is more cumbersome to use and even though it is new, it doesn't produce results that are on a par with my other hand grinders.

Grinding for a lever machine requires a finer grind than other machines. A good hand grinder is up to the task. Hand grinders produce more fluff that arguably, makes a better tasting shot.

Buy your hand grinder on eBay from a German seller and be sure it says Made in Western Germany on the bottom. My best grinder, the Zassenhaus 153, has a stainless steel shaft rather than a black one and is brass on the bottom instead of black. See if you can get the seller to take a picture of the bottom of the shaft by removing the drawer.

http://www.home-barista.com/forum...senhaus-t3751.html

[peacecup]

Sorry to confuse you - the bakelite won't warp. My blue PeDe has an old bakelite drawer that still works fine. The newer ones were translucent yellow plastic, and these seem to warp for some reason. I'm fixin to make a wooden drawer for it but have not gotten the chance.

With the exception of one very old one, the Dienes mills I've had have all worked very well for espresso. My first hand mill some four years ago was a Dienes, and it still works.

If you look inside the hopper you'll see the Dienes has a six-star configuration on top the inner burr - this means there are six "channels" for beans to enter. The one Zass I have has only five. Does this effect grind quality? Not sure, but the Zass I've been testing does not go quite as fine as all the Deines' I've used.

It would be good to hear from some other Zassenhaus users.

PC

[Fullsack]

Zassenhaus 154

Zassenhaus 153

Zassenhaus 153

Dienes

The differences are becoming more apparent. Both of the Zass 153's have Made in Western Germany on the bottom, but even they have different shaft and burr coloring.

I'm not staying at my house, so I don't have tools for a pull apart. I'll do that another time.

[peacecup]

Doug,

Is there a model/name under the Dienes - mine has a "623 Mokka" and German wording (some have English wording - presumably these were for export). Yours looks very similar to one of the ones in my group photo.

The drawer on that Dienes looks more like the bakelite one on my older PeDe. It looks like harder plastic than the newer one I have, and less likely to warp. Incidently, mine came "as new" with the original tag and instruction sheet - I'll try to post photos soon.

This reminds me that plastic drawers are more prone to static in areas that have that problem. Juneau is not one of those areas, with 100 inches of rain a year.


RE: burrs, all of my five Dienes on hand have the six-sided star configuration when viewed from the top. Interesting that you photo seems to show five.

PC

[peacecup]

Ah, now I see yours is a Dienes, but not a "Mokka". From this, the writing style on the lable (font), and the flat, rather that angled handle, I gather that yours is older. It looks to be in very nice condition.

PC

[ogatasan]

That brass grinder is my least favorite. It is more cumbersome to use and even though it is new, it doesn't produce results that are on a par with my other hand grinders.

Doug,

Thank you for your opinion, and your posts here and in other threads! I'll take your advice and look out for a boxmodel now. Besides I feel better about an unsuccessful ebay bid where a new zass turkish was sold around 45$ in germany. The turkish would be my preferred choice for its look and transportability, but grinding performance is of higher value...

[Fullsack]

Doug,

Thank you for your opinion, and your posts here and in other threads! I'll take your advice and look out for a boxmodel now. Besides I feel better about an unsuccessful ebay bid where a new zass turkish was sold around 45$ in germany. The turkish would be my preferred choice for its look and transportability, but grinding performance is of higher value...

For transportability, a good compromise would be the Zass 156 knee mill. I have 2 pictured above, the black one and the dark red one. They take up considerably less room than the standard box models.

The one pictured in this travel kit gives you a better idea of how compact they can be:
http://www.home-barista.com/forum...t-t3212.html#40646

[peacecup]

To stimulate the senses, here's a hand-ground, ~14 g, 1-oz ristretto, from karlschneider's private reserve Brazil Cachoeira de Grama Yellow Bourbon, 6-d post roast. I'm still dialing in the PeDe on this one, but it was silky-smooth, and still lingering as I post this. Karl is currently having a go with the conical-burr DeVe seen earlier in this thread, and seems to be finding it to his liking. Hopefully he'll be posting his impressions here soon.



Yes, those are salmon under the Golden Gate in the background. Too bad I'm missing the American Fisheries Society meeting in SF next week - not that the science is that interesting, but Doug's 1-group Astoria is probably within striking distance!

PC[/img]

[peacecup]

And here's a hand-ground Cafe D'Arte in a brown NP tulip: