Hand (grinder) Jive - a photo essay - Page 7

[oofnik]

oofnik;

One is perfect for a fine drip grind (up here, drip pots brew a delicious cup if the grind is about half again as fine as commercial drip), and the other makes a perfect grind for the MCaL, and with a firmer tamp, a very acceptable shot from the Arc!

Interesting.. I didn't know elevation was such a prominent factor!

With a bit of cleaning, checking alignment, and some CLP break-Free on the top shaft bushing, both have their assignments and work very well.

I am toying with the idea of taking one of them apart and "freshening" up the burrs with a Dremel and some patience. I'll post pics and a description of the success/failure after all is said and done, though there's no timeframe to get into it.

Hmm, unless you've got a really steady hand, I don't think I'd want to do that. It would be next to impossible to keep the gaps within a reasonable tolerance by hand. But if you're up for it, I'd love to hear how that works out.

Have you pulled the grinder apart to check the condition of the lower burr? Considering the oxidization, it might be worthwhile to pull the bottom set-screw off and drop the burr to give it a little TLC. I asume you can tighten it all the way and lock the handle up?

Yeah, I took a look at the burrs and they seem to be in reasonably good shape. Pretty sharp, too. I even unscrewed the lower burr brace and attempted to recenter it using a flashlight and some not-so-accurate methodology.. I think I made a slight improvement.

As has been said, these were probably never ever designed to grind for espresso - it's just a delight that some/many can, and do it so very well!

Trisha

I know, surprising!

So, update. I tightened it to where the burrs exerted some force on each other. I ground a dose for my Factory, felt the consistency, and was pretty surprised to find little difference compared to my SM90. Packed the grinds into the PF, tamped, and gave it a try, and was disappointed to find very little resistance. The shot pulled in about ten seconds, but it had crema! Flavor was pretty bitter and thin, though, so I don't think this is going to work out. Guess I'll just have to keep looking.

If I get some time, I might actually build my own grinder using the same sort of adjustment mechanism out of the conical burrs from my old Pavoni grinder. Not likely anytime soon, but it's a thought.

[peacecup]

I assume you had good fresh beans? Well, if so, and you're still getting 10 sec pours, try adjusting them even a little tighter (if possible). Also, try a fuller dose and or harder tamp.

I just pulled the first Dienes that I bought about 5 years ago out of the cabinet last night, ran a couple of teaspoons of whole dry brown rice through it, and tried it out this AM. No problem nearly stalling the Ponte Vecchio.

Yours may be beyond hope, but it may be worth trying the "rub em together till they re-align" method. You can use white rice for this, which will also clean the burrs thoroughly.

PC

[mrgnomer]

I don't know about the Zass kneemills not being up to espresso grinding. My Zassenhaus kneemill is pretty new. Definitely an outsourced model. Tried to grind through a rock with it just after I got it but the burrs seemed to have survived. I've used it as a travel grinder for my Cremina and now for my Europiccola. I can grind fine enough to choke the Europiccola. The extractions are very good.

I've also tried using the Zassenhaus Turkish mill for lever extractions. It works very well too. Not hard to zero in on the grind.

[TUS172]

Okay guys... You have peeked my interest. Also circumstances on the homefront have forced me to find a 'quieter' way of grinding for my thrice daily espressos. My daughter who has been staying with us since her husband was shipped to Iraq, has just had her 1st child (Dominic). It seems the decibel level from the screaming Nemox Lux did not set well with the little duffer.

Anyway I opted to try the manual crank route. Thanks to all of you who have given input on this forum and site! It was very valuable and I must say that I am now hooked. I hadn't anything to compare to the Lux in the past and I thought it was doing an admirable job. It turns out that the 1st manual I bought put the Nemox to shame. It is a Dienes 310... After tearing it apart and giving it a thorough cleaning I put it to the test to see how fine it could grind. It took about 2 minutes to grind 16.5 Grams of espresso and choked the '67 immediately! Wow... After fiddling with the grind setting for a while I am now getting a much superior grind to that of the Lux. Plenty of crema and the flavor is amazingly better and very smooth.

So being a proud carrier of the 'OCD gene' ... I have since begun hunting down other potential candidates for a limited collection of the smaller German and French grinders.

The Nemox Lux? It is stored in a cabinet now relegated to a future that is unknown at this time... perhaps a future Ebay sell candidate.

I haven't yet had to grind for visitors... but Xmas is just around the corner "OH BOY". I guess I could have friends and family grind their own. "Want a espresso? Here stick this between your knees and start cranking!"

[oofnik]

I assume you had good fresh beans? Well, if so, and you're still getting 10 sec pours, try adjusting them even a little tighter (if possible). Also, try a fuller dose and or harder tamp.

I just pulled the first Dienes that I bought about 5 years ago out of the cabinet last night, ran a couple of teaspoons of whole dry brown rice through it, and tried it out this AM. No problem nearly stalling the Ponte Vecchio.

Yours may be beyond hope, but it may be worth trying the "rub em together till they re-align" method. You can use white rice for this, which will also clean the burrs thoroughly.

PC

Always fresh beans!

Yeah, I don't think it's going to happen. I tightened it to where it took considerable force to turn the handle and I still couldn't get longer than a 10-second pour. Oh well. I'll have to keep looking, I guess. Thank you for the suggestions!

[peacecup]

The Nemox Lux? It is stored in a cabinet now relegated to a future that is unknown at this time... perhaps a future Ebay sell candidate.

Right on! Another satisfied customer! Please post a picture!

PC

[peacecup]

Yeah, I don't think it's going to happen. I tightened it to where it took considerable force to turn the handle and I still couldn't get longer than a 10-second pour.

Well, sorry about this. It could still be useful for other brewing methods. I've never had to completely give up on a forged grinder with stepless adjustment, but others have said they have.

Again, if you've got the time you can try grinding white rice through it for a while at the very tightest setting. THis may take some time, because you need to wear the burrs until they mesh smoothly. And again, I'm only guessing on this.

Otherwise, you could try finding another. I've had at least 10 of the forged steel grinders that have worked for espresso.

PC

[ogatasan]

It turns out that the 1st manual I bought put the Nemox to shame.

I don't doubt your experience, I only wonder why the manual results are superior. Does anyone have suggestions?
If I am not wrong the Nemox has stainless steel conical burrs. I'd expect them to be sharper than those of an old and worn off handmill. Is it about the build quality? Strangely I tend to think that the tolerances of a handmill might actually contribute to a more consistent grind. Might it have to do with the speed? Is it partly a psychological or subjective experience since we put our hands on?

I'll have to keep looking, I guess.

Look for grinders that are labelled mocca or mokka - they are usually best in the fine range.

[TUS172]

Ogatasan Wrote:

Might it have to do with the speed?

Yes I tend to believe the speed of the burrs heat the espresso beans; perhaps causing more bitterness. I also noted the grind from the Dienes to be quite a bit more fluffy and packed better than from the Lux.

[peacecup]

I get almost no clumping with the hand grinder.

One thing we have not discussed on this thread is STATIC. With the wood drawer grinders I seldom get any. But I live in a very humid environment where static electricity is very low. Any other users had static issues?

[Psyd]

I have since begun hunting down other potential candidates for a limited collection of the smaller German and French grinders.

Yeah, I'd be in that line. I'm looking for a decent knee-mill for under fifty bucks to travel with, and the online auction route seems like a crapshoot. I'd like to find one that one of the lever-heads has tested and passed, but has grown less fond of. I hate the whole auction set up, and the chance that it'd show up and not work well for espresso (a good half of those are thrift shop or attic finds, and they're not coffee drinkers, much less espresso drinkers) is pretty good.
So, if y'all have members of your family that are looking for a good home, and Dan isn't averse to the idea, I'd be happy to get a PM. I have picked up one off e-bay, and the case had some separation issues, as well as the grinding surfaces being misaligned. Once bitten...

[ogatasan]

I get almost no clumping with the hand grinder.

One thing we have not discussed on this thread is STATIC. With the wood drawer grinders I seldom get any. But I live in a very humid environment where static electricity is very low. Any other users had static issues?

Never got any clumping. I do observe a static effect and wild wall to wall distribution pattern in the first few days into a new batch. Later the grind would just fall straight down in a way that the orientation of the adjustment screw becomes readable. Don't know if humidity, freshness or both are responsible for that and if it is a quality criteria.

[TUS172]

I live in Vermont and now that it is heating season and the temperature outside may not reach above freezing again for quite sometime (March) the air in my home is somewhat dry as compared to other seasons. Yes I have noted the static effect in the drawer of the grinder. So I fit a La Pavoni double basket into the drawer and that seemed to solve the static issue.

[Psyd]

I live in Vermont and now that it is heating season and the temperature outside may not reach above freezing again for quite sometime (March) the air in my home is somewhat dry as compared to other seasons. Yes I have noted the static effect in the drawer of the grinder. So I fit a La Pavoni double basket into the drawer and that seemed to solve the static issue.

I took mine out in the desert, with very little humidity, and the Black Cat I ground ended up as a thin layer of grounds evenly distributed along the entire inside of the grinder. I had to whack & thwack to get it in the drawer, and then grind a little extra to fill the basket of my Mokapot. There was about a half teaspoon that just wouldn't be coaxed out. Grounds ended up pretty much everywhere, so I was pretty glad that I was outdoors. I am looking for decent knee mill to replace it, and hopefully a newer one won't have as many fit issues.

[oofnik]

Okay.. I just took the plunge on another eBay one. Looks to be in fair condition. Built by Trosser. I'll update as soon as I receive it and try it out.

[mogogear]

I jumped on this Alexanderwerk Mocca a few weeks ago. Kinda of 1950's Ikea-esque~~~!



It is about 5.5" tall - has a wonderfull Bakelite ergonomic knob- a plain open hole to toss in the beans,





A inset bakelite grinds cup that snaps into place in the bottom recess



Just a pleasing organic shape..... a fun find- it BARELY grinds up to Cremina level-



Ciao

[peacecup]

Mogo!

That's a very interesting grinder - I saw it go by. Someone put a lot f time and effort into crafting it a while ago. I'm glad its being appreciated. It just begs to accompany a early Saturday morning meditative lever cappuccino! Nice find!

PC

[oofnik]

Alright, an update on the Trosser grinder like I promised - It grinds worse than the other one!
I'm not having very good luck with this hand grinder thing. There seems to be a manufacturing defect with the Trosser, where the inner burr was forged off-balance, thus making it impossible to center properly.
Out of frustration I really tightened my other grinder until it was difficult to turn the handle, and managed to grind just fine enough for a pretty good shot. So for now I think I'll be using the other one, the "garantied forged grinder".

I got an idea. When I get home, I think I'm going to attempt a burr transplant. I have a conical burr set almost exactly the same as the Ascaso burrs. I am going to attempt to remove the outer burr from its plastic casing and fit the set to the mechanism of the Trosser grinder. Has anybody done something like this before? I can't seem to find anything on it. If I get around to it I will be sure to post results.

[mogogear]

Sorry to hear that the hand -mill Gods aren't smiling at you... don't give up!

[peacecup]

Out of frustration I really tightened my other grinder until it was difficult to turn the handle, and managed to grind just fine enough for a pretty good shot. So for now I think I'll be using the other one, the "garantied forged grinder".

Oofnik - now you're grindin baby! This is what I've been suggesting. It's just a theory, but I believe over time the grind will actually become more fine and even as the burrs wear together. At least it seems to have worked for one of mine.
If your shots are still just a little fast at the finest grind there are two other tricks to try: 1) dose fuller - more coffee = more pressure, and 2) tamp twice, i.e.dose half, tamp (or at least firmly level), dose, and tamp. Admittedly this may not be optimum, but I can tell you from experience that it works. Interestingly, the grinder for which I needed to use the trick now grinds fine enough to choke the machine.

PC