Hand (grinder) Jive - a photo essay - Page 6

[Al_Cappucino]

RE-ALIGNING UPPER SHAFT

I did it with my Trespade hand grinder by unscrewing the screws and resetting the burrs and then retightening the screws, so that when you turn the handle you don't hear the burrs hitting at one point. Seemed to improve the grind somewhat.

Also, with my grinder I bought some little ball bearing races and a precision bush which I added to the grinder to eliminate any shaft wobble. A bit of trouble to source these parts, and it it does corrupt the original design, but did improve the grind a bit (and probably the life of the grinder).

There are probably alot of factors that influence the precision of a hand grinder. Uneven wear and quality control during production of each unit are but a few.

If I had time and access to a workshop I would love to build a precision hand grinder from scratch starting with a precision burr set, but I am not sure where you could source those from. It might be possible to use a replacement burr set meant for an electic grinder. I would build it to fit directly on top of my portafilter to reduce the mess and waste. I am not sure if anyone has had a go at that project.

I am not so much into the aesthetics of the grinder, more the simplicity and the ease of use.

'Hand grinder enthusiast' Jason

[peacecup]

Three ways I've tried re-aligning the burrs:
1. Loosen the outer (lower) burr screws, set the grind adjustment to very fine, and turn the handle to find the "natural" center - then retighten the screws. This may require alternately tightening screws and adjusting the grind out, since a very fine adjustment will prevent the screws from tightening completely (you'll see as you go).

2. Loosen the outer burr screws, and find the place where the burrs will mesh most closely by turning the handle, then re-tighten.

3. If these fail to produce a fine or consistent enough grind it may be time for plan B - use either 1 or 2 above, then grind your coffee with the burrs adjusted to mesh, as tight as will allow the handle to turn. This will "mechanically re-alighn" the burrs, or "take the edge off" if you will. I recommend this last step only once you have decided that there is no other way to produce a grind fine enough for espresso, in which case the grinder will either A) be re-sold to a french press enthusiast, or B) collect dust. This last measure is based an the assumption that as the burrs wear against each other they will eventually find a new center. Not sure if this is true, but sometimes it seems to work ok.

The Dienes 435 that I have has a bit of play in the upper end of the axle where it meets the hopper lid. Although this would seem to lead to an inconsistent grind, the grinder does work for espresso.

PC

[Psyd]

I recommend this last step only once you have decided that there is no other way to produce a grind fine enough for espresso,

The Dienes 435 that I have has a bit of play in the upper end of the axle where it meets the hopper lid. Although this would seem to lead to an inconsistent grind, the grinder does work for espresso.

So, what I'm hearing is that if it makes espresso quality grinds, leave it the heck alone? I'm getting great results, but it seems that it 'rubs' a bit at the end, when almost all the beans have been ground and I'm just getting the last of the grounds through to the bottom. It does seem a bit messier than the Majors, but since I'm planning on using it for travel, that's not a huge deal. Most camping areas will think of a sprinkling of grounds as a boon...

Thanks all, for the advice. I'm going to try a few of the adjustment procedures, and jsut use the ones that get me espresso. No last ditch efforts until it stops making decent espresso grounds.

[peacecup]

If it ain't broke don't fix it. I'm glad to hear the little Dienes is doing the job. RE: mess, if you'll cut a greeting card to fit over the drawer, then cut a corner off it, you can tap the grinds directly into the PF, as shown in the video:

http://video.google.com/googlepla...686433339075092164

PC

[Psyd]

RE: mess, if you'll cut a greeting card to fit over the drawer, then cut a corner off it, you can tap the grinds directly into the PF, as shown in the video:

Seen it, taped it, got the t-shirt. What about those grounds that get around the drawer, and are pulled out on the bottom of the drawer when you remove it? Or those that are precariously balanced on the edge of the drawer? If they were all to go into the drawer, I'd not have any issues.

[peacecup]

I try to tap on the sides a few times to get all the grinds into the drawer. WIth some grinders this works better than with others. On some PeDes there are little wooden bars above the drawers that direct the strays in. Some are flat, and the best are angled. The DeVe I sent karlscheider had a metal drawer recessed into carved grooves in the body. Very slick. If it is a bother you could try to glue strips above the drawer - I'll try to post photos.

If you try the cut corner doser you can lamintate it with clear shipping tape to make it fimer, which prevents most of the escapees. I've heard of others who make a funnel to guide the grinds into the basket. BTW, I usually dose with the basket flat on a small plate rather than in the PF, which makes it easier to hit the target, and strays are collected.

An issue we have not addressed so far on this thread is static - since I live in a temperate rainforest I forget about this, but those in drier climates probably experience some level of static. The grinders with plastic drawers are the worst.

[Psyd]

I try to tap on the sides a few times to get all the grinds into the drawer.
...you could try to glue strips above the drawer - I'll try to post photos.

If you try the cut corner doser you can lamintate it with clear shipping tape to make it fimer, which prevents most of the escapees. I've heard of others who make a funnel to guide the grinds into the basket. BTW, I usually dose with the basket flat on a small plate rather than in the PF, which makes it easier to hit the target, and strays are collected.

Or I could dose, and sweep the refuse into the knock-box. S'all a bit of a pain in the butt, but none of it is a deal-breaker. Again, most of the time I use this it will be outside my kitchen, and I can just dump over a garbage can, or out into nature. I do like the little angled shelves, though, I could easily make those.

[budlyn]

Hello Peacecup,

Many thanks for all you helpful comments. Is there some way that I could have a high-resolution copy of the Peter Dienes Catalog that you have posted images?
All the best, Bud
Hanging by my heels in Auckland, New Zealand

[peacecup]

Sorry, that is just an Ebay image. You may be able to find one on Ebay.DE if you watch for a while.

[jamhat]

Over the past few weeks I have enjoyed seeing all of your posts to this thread and admired the photos of the hand grinders that you included. I admired them so much I decided to get a hand grinder, too. I found this Armin Trosser on Ebay and have been pleased with it so far.


The picture above shows the grind-adjustment dial inside the box. The Trosser can grind for just about any brewing method. It grinds fine enough to produce a rich shot in the Gaggia Factory and course enough for the French press. In fact, this hand grinder performs better for espresso than the Baratza Maestro I purchased for that purpose!


The burrs seem to be a nice high-quality steel. The machine appears as though it really wasn't used all that much - maybe just sitting around someone's house collecting dust and oxidizing. (This picture shows the lid slid open. It closes to keep the beans in the hopper while grinding.)


I'm not sure what the green stuff is... more signs of the elements, perhaps.

Overall, using the Trosser is an enjoyable process. It isn't too difficult to grind for a single or double shot, and it adds a simple charm to the espresso ritual. If you haven't gotten a hand grinder and are curious, I would recommend it. If you scope out Ebay, you might find one for a bargain (mine was $14, shipped).

If you have any idea of the age of this grinder, could you please let me know. I'm curious to find out more about it and would appreciate any information you can share.

[mogogear]

We should all stand up and give you a hand... but were are grinding at the moment

See - even with all the caveats and " maybe's" of buying a hand mill- it is easy.. Well done. A little isopropyl alochol and fine steel wool - all the metal work will look like new. It does look like something kept dripping on the corner,, could just be a brass screw that oxidized and "bled" green? Who knows.. I sanded mine and re-coated with a water base satin varnish and they looked like new.

Trossers seem to be very dependable as far as getting a fine enough grind. It is amazing, considering these guys were never meant to grind that fine- they were just well made "coffee grinders" not espresso grinders for manual espresso machines that are finicky about their grind! owned by people 40 years later trying to see how good they are all at the cost of a good pound of fresh roast coffee beans!

[peacecup]

I am definitely overdue on getting together a hand grinder summary, but it will come. Its been a great week of hand-grinding, hand-pulling espresso, but I've been too busy to catch up on this thread. The Ponte Vecchio has been doing AM cappuccios - super microfoam these days. The Pavoni on loani is the workhorse at work, and with a little help from her friends (steaming), the espresso have been great.

Mogo is correct in that I suspect that the "box" and "knee" style mills were not meant to grind fine enough for espresso. On the other hand, Europeans have been drinking Turkish-style and "cowboy" coffee for a while, so who knows. Maybe they were. Most of the major makers of the wood mills also made brass and silver Turkish style mills, and pepper mills as well.

One point which will eventually go into the summary is that there is variation how these mills work for espresso. Most people have already figured this out, but its worth noting.

Another impression of mine, although I'm not certain of it, is that the grinds tend to become both finer and more even as the mills age (provided the burrs are in reasonable alighnment to begin with). As the burrs wear I would expect to have them mesh more closely together. This is just a guess, but it seems logical - open to other's opinions here.

Budlyn,

Your Trosser is 1950's I'd guess. Some of the 40's Trossers say West Germany British Zone underneath. Looks too old to be 1960's. This is based on similar style Dienes' that I have seen. Prof Stack has some Trossers, so maybe he can help.

Well, tomorrow is Saturday in Alaska, which means more time to relax with the family and espresso...

PC

[jamhat]

Peacecup, thank you for the information about the hand grinder. It's good to know the age of the ol' Trosser. Now, that just makes me wonder who has owned it over the past 50 years and what their stories are. I guess that is part of the charm of these older grinders, isn't it?

Mogo, I did not know that a little isopropyl and steel wood would restore the gleam to those metal parts. Thanks for the tip! I'm still debating on whether or not to restore this mill or to keep the weathered exterior. I kind of like that beat-up look! (Call me sentimental.) Speaking of restoring - how is your De Ve coming along?

[mogogear]

Done - and I thought I had posted a shot of her- but the posting software here doesn't seem to be working for me tonight? I will try tomorrow

[Alchemist]

Per prompting by peacecup, here are a few shots of my Giant Trosser. It's sort of a Zass's larger older brother in the army.



I don't recall now, but I believe it is around a 15# grinder. Monster stable.



Very sturdy shaft and a hopper that holds over two pounds of beans (like I need that)



A little blurry and dusty, but I really like the lower centering for the burr and shaft. No wobble AT ALL.

I can grind about a gram a seconds for drip, or a double's worth of espresso in 30 seconds. Way less work than my Zass DG169.

[mogogear]

John !
Tell them the story about where this grinder was first assigned! Please, Please, Please!


I have had the priveledge of seeing and using this grinder a few years ago at Mike McKoffee's house when I first got to meet Alchemist! It is a site to behold and it is a fine peice of equipment.

[Alchemist]

Well, from what I can tell it is some ilk of German army/navy/armed forces surplus. Hence my reference to it being the army brat. I got it from a German surplus store Deutsche Optik.

This guy is meant to bolt down, but I just move it back and forth on my counter (padded of course) to use it.

I just did a little looking around and they have another type of coffee grinder. And check out the dimensions of this guy. 5" diameter x 11" tall. Italian Army Coffee Grinder

[oofnik]

Hi all, great thread!

One's for everyday use, the other travels to Rescue when I'm going to be there for unforseen hours. Nothing fancy, but the grind is perfect!

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Trisha

Trisha, I seem to have picked up exactly the same grinder as the one you've got. I haven't yet pulled any shots with the grind, but just using the finger test it doesn't seem too promising. Have you been using it for espresso or just for drip? I re-aligned the burrs as best I could, but it still doesn't seem to be grinding fine enough. Hmm.

[peacecup]

Well, once you've tried everything, if you still want to use if for espresso try tightening the adjustment until you can just turn the handle, then try grinding. NOTE: this may wear on the burrs, but if it doesn't work anyway you have nothing to lose. My idea is that by rubbing the burrs the "realign" to each other - don't know if that's true, but you probably have not invested too much. Unless you actually break the axle it will always work for drip/press coffee even after the "rub em till they wear" method!

PC

[Trisha]

oofnik;

One is perfect for a fine drip grind (up here, drip pots brew a delicious cup if the grind is about half again as fine as commercial drip), and the other makes a perfect grind for the MCaL, and with a firmer tamp, a very acceptable shot from the Arc!

With a bit of cleaning, checking alignment, and some CLP break-Free on the top shaft bushing, both have their assignments and work very well.

I am toying with the idea of taking one of them apart and "freshening" up the burrs with a Dremel and some patience. I'll post pics and a description of the success/failure after all is said and done, though there's no timeframe to get into it.

Have you pulled the grinder apart to check the condition of the lower burr? Considering the oxidization, it might be worthwhile to pull the bottom set-screw off and drop the burr to give it a little TLC. I asume you can tighten it all the way and lock the handle up?

As has been said, these were probably never ever designed to grind for espresso - it's just a delight that some/many can, and do it so very well!

Trisha