GS3 Fiasco - For Ken Fox's Reading Pleasure

[Marshall]

This is for Ken, if he checks in from France (others can read, too )

A new organizer put on a "Coffee, Tea & Chocolate" fair in Pasadena yesterday. There were a lot of familiar people exhibiting and doing presentations (Sherri Johns, Coffee Klatch, Chuck Jones, Joe Behm and others). I'd heard all the presentations before, but went mainly to schmooze. The turnout was terrible, because the Cal/UCLA game was a sellout at the Rose Bowl, and construction made the show very hard to find, even if you made it through the Rose Bowl traffic. So, there was LOTS of time to schmooze.

Anyway, I noticed Heather Perry was giving a demo on her USBC prize GS3. My wife, Joan, periodically questions whether I really NEED a new espresso machine, even though she cooperated in building our espresso bar to GS3 specs. So, I think, "I'll take her into Heather's demo and she'll see how utterly life-changing and fabulous the GS3 is, just as I did last summer."

In we go, and it's almost as if everything that could go wrong with the machine proceeds to go wrong. The low water sensor is cutting the machine off as soon as the water is 1/4" down, and Sherri Johns is running back and forth refilling the reservoir every 5 minutes. The overpressure valve is seriously misbehaving, causing the pump or valve to alternately wail loudly or spew water into the drip tray. Heather is furious and muttering dark oaths against the machine. All the while, of course, wifey is giving me "the look."

Well, it turns out Heather had not even opened the box on her GS3 until two days earlier (had it since July). She did not call anyone from Franke to set it up and adjust it. She knew nothing about the early model bugs and fixes (on a list of about 20 corrections LM has made). I THINK I convinced Joan the current machines really are o.k., but I'm not quite sure.....

[King Seven]

Thanks for the warning! I think I take delivery of mine in the next week or so, and I will be sure to fire it up with the local distributors handy in case of problems.

[old442]

Marshall,
I think you missed a wonderful opportunity to purchase a GS3 cheap!

[Marshall]

Marshall,
I think you missed a wonderful opportunity to purchase a GS3 cheap!

You're probably right, but, I couldn't bear the weeks of "I told you so's" while we got the bugs out.

[Randii]

I was there too, and watched the whole debacle! Poor Heather! She was not a happy camper! It is a PRETTY PRETTY machine with shiny blue lights, but I think Heather finally convinced me to wait until the next upgrade! I'll find out if she feels better about her prized posession in November.

Heather wasn't the only one who had problems! Joe Behm said he started a fire in his own roaster during a Behmor demo! (I didn't get to see that!).

Next year all of the kinks will be worked out!

[Ken Fox]

This is for Ken, if he checks in from France (others can read, too )

I'd check in more often but you know, being a tourist in France has other attractions . . . . I have been torturing French people forcing them to listen to my "French Language as a-work-in-progress."

As to the G3, I'm sure it is a very nice machine. Those LM folks are great and I'm sure they'll stand behind whatever problems occur. My only cautions are that with more complexity comes more potential problems. Given the fact that few of us make more than maybe 5 espresso drinks per day, it is hard to make a serious argument for having more than a basic E-61 machine at home, that will be used so little.

ken
---spoken by someone who currently owns 2 modified Cimbali Juniors and 5 commercial grinders, at last count, in a home setting

[Psyd]

She knew nothing about the early model bugs and fixes (on a list of about 20 corrections LM has made). I THINK I convinced Joan the current machines really are o.k.,

Just tell her that you got it at a really really great price as a beta tester! You are a beta tester if you are making 20 pre-recorded bug-fix corrections after delivery, I don't care who you are. Pros would just send their FB-80's or GB5's back if they got them in that condition.

Given the fact that few of us make more than maybe 5 espresso drinks per day, it is hard to make a serious argument for having more than a basic E-61 machine at home, that will be used so little.

Oh, I dunno, it wasn't really that hard.
Me: "You're going to spend $1500-2000 on a really good home machine, you can get a really-really nice commercial two-group for $2500!"
Me: "Uhm... oh-kay!"

[Niko]

La Marzocco seems to be the Apple Computer of the espresso world.
The machines sure are nice but their own customers end up being the lab (test) rats. They've had laptops burst into flames and others just simply D.O.A.
It sort of sounds familiar to me...
I have 5 Macs

[Randii]

La Marzocco seems to be the Apple Computer of the espresso world.
The machines sure are nice but their own customers end up being the lab (test) rats. They've had laptops burst into flames and others just simply D.O.A.
It sort of sounds familiar to me...
I have 5 Macs

Yes, but it could be like Microsoft! They make you PAY for their "features"! (I live my life on Macs!) Heather got those GS/3 "features" for FREE!

Now that's a scary thought, "Microsoft Espresso."

[n00b]

So, is THIS the new and improved MArzoCco Gs3 Titanium?

I have 1 mac.

[cannonfodder]

Given the fact that few of us make more than maybe 5 espresso drinks per day, it is hard to make a serious argument for having more than a basic E-61 machine at home, that will be used so little.

ken
---spoken by someone who currently owns 2 modified Cimbali Juniors and 5 commercial grinders, at last count, in a home setting

Funny you say that. It was not long ago I was discussing coffee and equipment with someone at work. We got talking about my installing an espresso bar, dedicated power, new water lines, filters, regulators, 6 liter boiler, big grinder, accessories, heat-up time, etc-- the end question, 'and you need all this to do what?' my response 'uuu, make a 2 ounce drink 4 times a day'

Sounds kind of funny when someone puts it that way.

[altoCalgary]

I have had a GS/3 since June, sn #54. I have it at home. I solved the set-up problems long ago. Teme has great instructions for setting up the GS/3 that I used. I shut off the low-water tank warning system and I now use a 16.8L spring water tank plumbed into my machine, placed where I can see it. I use bits of foam to reduce vibrations. I have a used a Scace II to fine-tune temperature and pressures. I currently have pressure set to 130 psi (9 bar) and the steam boiler at 260 F (1.5 bar). My coffee boiler temperature offset is -6.1 F. I use the Crono feature to dial in my grind. I personally like a shot time between 25 and 34 seconds. My pressure-release valve is one complete rotation less than completely tight, giving me about 12 bar maximum. In spite of all the inital annoyances, my machine (knock on wood) has been performing beautifully. When I had a tricked-out Andreja Premium, my scale of excellence was up to 10. Now it is 4 higher.

I love my machine. I hope you will love your too.

Ron

[Nocturnal]

Funny you say that. It was not long ago I was discussing coffee and equipment with someone at work. We got talking about my installing an espresso bar, dedicated power, new water lines, filters, regulators, 6 liter boiler, big grinder, accessories, heat-up time, etc-- the end question, 'and you need all this to do what?' my response 'uuu, make a 2 ounce drink 4 times a day'

Sounds kind of funny when someone puts it that way.

Yes, I had a similar discussion with a coworker on a different subject: I sometimes spend hours to tie a bunch of feathers and hair on some hooks, drive several hours to a river in the middle of the night, don unsightly, uncomfortable garb at the crack of dawn, climb down a cliff to get in the water, to use the latest space age material rod with a hand machined reel costing me over 600 bucks, all in hopes to catch a few 2 lb fish. 'the end question, "and you do all this to do what?, Can"t you just go to the store and buy a few pre-cleaned trout filets at 6 dollars for your dinner?"

My response; Dinner? I let the fish go after I catch them.

I guess some will never understand the relentless pursuit and joy, of real pleasures, in a deep dimension of the soul; a destination that will they probably will never travel, somewhat heartrending.

Nocturnal

[Dogshot]

IMO, LM did three things badly when it came to the GS3, which has irked consumers and dreamers for good reason:

1) They announced the GS3 and allowed beta testers to start talking about the machine way too soon. Here it is, a year or more later, and it is still not available to US customers who put their name on a list.

2) They did not release the GS3 worldwide simultaneously. The espresso world is pretty small, and it must be annoying to would-be buyers that 1 guy in Europe and 2 guys in Canada have been sipping espresso from their GS3 for a few months.

3) They pushed units out the door before the units were ready, and now they have a reputation for QC issues with the GS3.

At this point, who can blame the consumer for saying "so what?!" about the GS3. Contrast this with how Nikon has been handling the release of its newest wunder-camera, the D3. Nikon announced the D3 ( a full-frame sensor digital slr with great image quality and very low noise in low light) in August, to be released in November. At the time of the announcement, there were a few sample shots available. Shortly thereafter came a trickle of sample shots from pros in various areas of the photo discipline. Now 3 weeks from launch worldwide and 3 months from initial announcement, there is huge buzz about the D3.

I'm sure the GS3 will be even better than people think by the time it actually appears. All this really shows is that LM is a company that focuses on making espresso machines rather than its market. How did they let Starbucks slip away from their machines into super-autos anyway ?

Mark

[terryz]

Just to be clear the GS3 Titanium shown on my Flickr feed is a one off created at the factory. The welder of the boilers went crazy and created some Ti boilers and the rest is history. Jen's from Portaflon purchased the machine and will install it in his home. Cool machine though and a perfect way for LM to celebrate the 80th year of business.

[Psyd]

I guess some will never understand the relentless pursuit and joy, of real pleasures, in a deep dimension of the soul; a destination that will they probably will never travel, somewhat heartrending.

It's the same with people that ask me about golf; "YOU? You play GOLF!?!" I try to explain to them that the pursuit of the lil white ball with a big steel stick (Titanium, Graphite, whatever...) isn't the purpose, just the excuse to hang out in a meadow in the desert with three of my finest friends for four hours with no cell-phone, work, girlfriend, wife, kids, dogs, gigs, bills, you name it. THAT's the real pleasure of golf!

How did they let Starbucks slip away from their machines into super-autos anyway ?

STARBUCKS: We want an espresso machine that can be operated by today's high-school kid and can pull a double shot of espresso in eighteen seconds (max) with very little cleanup and almost no maintenance. Oh, and it should load the puck and tamp it automatically, and prolly dispose of it as well. And it should be able to steam milk on its own.

LM: Hey, lookie! The 'Swift'!

STARBUCKS: Naw, still too complicated...

LM: F.O.

(This is just the way that I imagine it went, but I'd bet it's fairly close...)

Just to be clear the GS3 Titanium shown on my Flickr feed is a one off created at the factory. The welder of the boilers went crazy and created some Ti boilers and the rest is history.

Sorta reminiscent of how the Silvia was born.
<Homer>MMMmmmmm.... Titaniummmmm.... aauuugghhhhh...</Homer>

[Jacob]

Thanks for the warning! I think I take delivery of mine in the next week or so, and I will be sure to fire it up with the local distributors handy in case of problems.

Fiasco or ?

[Dang]

Hi all

Check out the thermal conductivity

For a commonly used weldable titanium alloy
http://www.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatID=14123
'
For copper
http://www.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatID=28

It makes no practical sense to make a titanium boiler (unless you want to implant it in your body...)
It would be more reasonable to make a copper boiler and then insulate it.


next up: Carbon fiber boilers