General question about taking fittings apart

[RegulatorJohnson]

I hear dan from time to time say to check the mushroom to see if there is scale.

this makes me want to do this on my pulser before i sell it.

this also makes me wonder about the fittings inside these machines in general..

is it safe to assume that if someone is very careful that most of these fittings can be opened? im not going to just take this machine apart for the hell of it every weekend, but i am curious to see how much scale if in this pulser before i sell it. it seems like the "mushroom" is where to look. i am sure there is not a traditional mushroom in the pulser, according to some other posts on here.

i also want to make sure this machine is prepared to ship and have it be in great condition inside.

thanks for the time.

jon

[another_jim]

Sometimes, the seal can be half rotten. Opening the fitting will do it in totally, and you'll need to replace it. If you want to sell the machine in good condition, this shouldn't deter you.

The fittings can also get sticky from corrosion or misplaced sealants. It's advisable to have two wrenches, one to immobilize the pipe, while the other one opens, so you don't damage it with the required torque.

[HB]

To Jim's advice, I'll add that it doesn't take a lot of torque to seal plumbing fittings, around 1/8 turn pass finger tight should be enough. You can go a scosch further if it doesn't seal, but much more than that means the sealing agent (O-ring, copper washer, Teflon tape, thread sealant, etc.) is suspect. Be especially careful with mixed materials like plastic/brass. Too tight = stripped threads. The Ulka pump with the plastic output (EP5) is one case in point.

[RegulatorJohnson]

If you want to sell the machine in good condition, this shouldn't deter you.

exactly, i want to verify that it is actually in good condition but i don't want to totally destroy it in the process.

jon

[Ken Fox]

Old copper fittings can give you grief when you open and then try to reclose them. I got the dumb idea to replace all the moving parts in my 12 year old Cimbali Jr. pourover a couple of years ago. I ended up with some drip drip drip drip leaks that just about drove me nuts. They were eventually dealt with but it was most unpleasant and took quite a bit of time and trouble.

So, by all means, if something is broken, fix it. But, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

ken

[RegulatorJohnson]

it is a pulser less than 3 years of use. i was careful to use soft water. want to sell it in good condition. i would prefer to not ship it if possible. not sure why i am concerned about shipping it.
jon

[HB]

i would prefer to not ship it if possible. not sure why i am concerned about shipping it.

It's true, espresso equipment gets broken during shipment. Pack with the assumption that it may be dropped from three feet onto a concrete floor and you'll be fine. I prefer double boxing with at least one inch solid foam core sheets between the inner/outer boxes. A good packaging store will make custom boxes for this purpose; in my book, it's cheap insurance.

[torretta]

I recently drained the boiler on my Cimbali Junior and needed opened the steam fitting at the boiler... of course now I have a small steam leak at this fitting. I didnt notice that there was any sealant on the fitting when I removed it.

Can anyone advise how to get the this fitting to seal properly? Should I use some teflon tape?

[Ken Fox]

I recently drained the boiler on my Cimbali Junior and needed opened the steam fitting at the boiler... of course now I have a small steam leak at this fitting. I didnt notice that there was any sealant on the fitting when I removed it.

Can anyone advise how to get the this fitting to seal properly? Should I use some teflon tape?

which fitting are you referring to, exactly? Do you have a picture you could insert? I'm assuming you mean where the steam wand fits into the boiler but I am not sure.

As a general rule I would try teflon tape, and if that did not work, threadlocker blue. I believe that threadlocker red has been recommended also on some recent threads here. If it is a compression fitting, however, it should not need any sort of sealant.

I did some extensive parts swapping on my old vibe machine more than a year ago and had a couple of leaks, which were ultimately fixed with perseverance and threadlocker blue; old copper plumbing in espresso machines is a challenge to work with, especially if there is any corrosion or mineralization around the fittings. The actual "boiler drain plug" on my old vibe Cimbali, however, seals just fine with no leaks even though I have put teflon tape on the threads for "insurance." I have not touched any fittings on my newer, rotary machine, other than for replacing the input and group solenoids, and the vacuum breaker.

ken

[torretta]

which fitting are you referring to, exactly? Do you have a picture you could insert? I'm assuming you mean where the steam wand fits into the boiler but I am not sure.

Hey Ken. Thanks for the reply. I did take a picture but I dont have my camera with me now. I'll post a pic later.

If you check out chris coffee's web site (see link below), the second picture of Junior's innards shows which fitting I am referring to; it's the fitting from the steam valve to the boiler.

http://www.chriscoffee.com/produc...e/espresso/juniord

So far I tried a couple of wraps of teflon tape and it seems to be holding (no hissing). I'll reassess the fitting later this evening.

Is there another way to drain the boiler without needing to undoing this fitting ? I undid this fitting to let air into the boiler so it can be drained using the drain plug on the side of the boiler.

Sal

[Ken Fox]

Is there another way to drain the boiler without needing to undoing this fitting ? I undid this fitting to let air into the boiler so it can be drained using the drain plug on the side of the boiler.

why not just open the water wand valve? On my old vibe machine, which has the drain plug on the absolute bottom of the boiler, I remove that and it drains fine without opening any valves or removing any fittings, but given the placement of the drain on the newer machine, if you use the plug on the side you may need to open the water wand or steam valve.

Alternatively, as Jeff Sawdy suggested in a post recently, you could just unscrew the vacuum breaker valve and then go in with some tubing and siphon out from the bottom of the boiler that way. I'll try that when and if I have to drain the boiler of the rotary machine. With the vibe, the drain plug placement is so convenient, there is no reason to do anything other than removing the drain plug at the bottom.

For anyone devoid of common sense reading this, please note: Before you drain the boiler of any espresso machine, you should do the following in this order:

(1) TURN OFF THE MACHINE THEN UNPLUG IT FROM THE WALL

(2) Drain as much water as will come out directly from the water wand

(3) Wait until the machine cools down to the point where water coming out will not burn your skin (or anything else)

(4) be prepared for what will happen when the residual water comes out, e.g. have a place to drain it, protect any electrical wiring, brain boxes, other circuits, that might be exposed, and have some rags around for mopping up, just in case.

ken

[torretta]

Is there another way to drain the boiler without needing to undoing this fitting ? I undid this fitting to let air into the boiler so it can be drained using the drain plug on the side of the boiler.

why not just open the water wand valve? On my old vibe machine, which has the drain plug on the absolute bottom of the boiler, I remove that and it drains fine without opening any valves or removing any fittings, but given the placement of the drain on the newer machine, if you use the plug on the side you may need to open the water wand or steam valve.

As usual, there is a lot of good info in your posts, thanks!

When I drained my boiler last I do recall trying to open the steam valve with the drain plug loosened, but this do not work... I had to loosen the steam fitting mentioned in my earlier post. I'll try opening the water valve next time.

I really dont understand how these thing work (i.e., air in water out) but I wonder what Cimbali techs do in the field when they need to drain a boiler for service, including how copper fittings are re-assembled (i.e., "dry" or with sealent)

Too bad "service manuals" are not available for these machines, similar to whats available for autos. My german car service manual has allowed me to do many repairs in line with factory specifications.

[Ken Fox]

I haven't really studied the new boiler design of the current Cimbali Jr. series. I have inserted an ensheathed PID, but that just required finding an unused port, and I have adjusted the bend on the autofill probe, but that is all I've done with the boiler on this machine.

The boiler is wrapped with an insulation blanket on the new type boiler, but not on the boiler of my old machine (although, for better or worse, I have retrofitted one).

It is quite possible that there is a real boiler drain plug on the absolute bottom of the new style boilers, and removing that would be much more straightforward than using the plug on the right side of the boiler. It would require temporary removal of the boiler insulation wrap in order to look for such a plug.

I haven't had a need to completely drain the boiler of my DT1 rotary machine, so I've never been curious enough to try this, but it might well be that we are considering the fitting on the right side of the boiler (as you look at it from the front) to be the drain plug, when in fact it might not be.

ken

[torretta]

here is a picture of the fitting (the one with the teflon tape showing). I also picked up some blue threadlocker (stick verison) in case the leak re-apperars... so far so good.

[SJM]

here is a picture of the fitting (the one with the teflon tape showing).

<image>

I can't tell for sure from your picture whether or not that is a compression fitting. If so, I think the teflon tape may actually be your problem. It is my understanding that teflon tape should not be used with compression fittings; it's also been my experience (before I read that I wasn't supposed to use it) that teflon tape will actually cause a compression fitting to leak.

If I have misread the photo and that isn't a compression fitting anyway, well, so much for the uselessness of this post.

Susn

[torretta]

I can't tell for sure from your picture whether or not that is a compression fitting. If so, I think the teflon tape may actually be your problem. It is my understanding that teflon tape should not be used with compression fittings; it's also been my experience (before I read that I wasn't supposed to use it) that teflon tape will actually cause a compression fitting to leak.

If I have misread the photo and that isn't a compression fitting anyway, well, so much for the uselessness of this post.

Susn

I think it is just a threaded connection although I am not entirely sure...I can say that it doesnt look like the basic compression fittings I've seen (no compression ring [ferrule?]over the pipe). I'll keep an eye on the connection to see if it begins to leaks again.

[SJM]

You are most probably right. I thought I'd mention it just because it is a lesson that I just learned. You can see from this picture that I had mistakenly put teflon tape onto this connection.