Gaggia MDF: not fine enough or calibration problem?

[nrwayne]

When I bought my MDF, the vendor told me to use a setting between 5 and 10. (I'm using the MDF along with an Espresso Deluxe, which seems to work fine.) I've followed that instruction, but have yet to get decent crema. Plus the shot comes out too quickly. Which suggests that I should try a finer grind. I've tried 4 and will go even lower to see how that helps. In view of the vendor's recommendation, this seems odd and I'm wondering if the machine needs to be calibrated. I know what decent crema is supposed to look like and this isn't even close.

[bobroseman]

Using a double portafilter basket, fill with enough coffee to leave a light shower screen impression on the puck after the shot. This should be at least 14 grams but go for depth in the basket after the tamp. Tamp firmly and repeatably to between 30 and 40 lbs of force (use a bathroom scale if necessary to calibrate your tamp) - pull a shot of 60 mL (2 ounces). Time it. More than 30 seconds coursen the grind, less than 25 seconds, grind finer.

Don't worry about numerical settings which will vary with the humidity, age of the coffee, time of day, variety of the bean and your arm strength.

Now you will be in the ball park.

Don't over fill the basket to the point where you have to use a gorilla tug to lock the portafilter into place. Try to be consistant with the volume of coffee and your tamp force as minor variations in these will make big differences in the pour speed.

Pours that are too fast and coffee that is stale will dimish the amount of crema.

Bob

[JonR10]

...but have yet to get decent crema. Plus the shot comes out too quickly. Which suggests that I should try a finer grind. I've tried 4 and will go even lower to see how that helps. In view of the vendor's recommendation, this seems odd and I'm wondering if the machine needs to be calibrated.

Don't even worry about the vendor's "recommendation" at all. Also, it sounds like you need some fresher beans. Get some coffee beans with a known roast date and use them on days 3-14 after roasting. That will solve your crema problem for sure.

Then, adjust your grinder to get the correct flow rate (2 ounces in 25 seconds). I am assuming that you're keeping the dose and tamp constant so that the grind is all you adjust. It's possible you may need to practice that part as well - but once you get it down (consistent dose and tamp) then only adjust grind.

It may be useful to find your grinder's "true zero" so you know how low you can go. Let the grinder run empty and slowly adjust finer until you hear the burrs begin to touch - and THAT is the true zero position. That's the only sort of calibration I could imagine for a grinder...

I've never even seen a MDF grinder in person so I don't know that much about it except that it has pro style flat burrs and so you should be able to get a nice, consistent grind quality.

[nrwayne]

Same result since the bearns were fresh, so I assume the problem's the fineness or the tamp. I'll vary the grind settings and tamp with a scale to try keeping the results consistent.

[JonR10]

Same result since the bearns were fresh...

May I ask how fresh the beans are?

This can only be measured in days after roasting.
The day the bag was opened is irrelevent (sp?).

It's been my experience that very fresh beans produce loads of crema even under horrific extraction circumstances.

Not trying to criticize, just trying to help...

[cannonfodder]

The MDF will most definitely grind fine enough. I run my MDF on 4, 3 is very close to choking the machine. You can fine tune the grinder. There is an adjustment ring under the hopper. You have to take the three rubber plugs off the hopper screw mounts inside the hopper. Remove the screws and the hopper comes off. Under it, there is ring with two slots and two screws, you can loosen the screws and rotate the burrs to tune the grind. Then reassemble.

I would not recommend trying that yet. Make sure you have fresh beans as Jon states, and if your shots are to fast on setting x, go to y. The fine tuning adjustment would be used when x is to fast and y is to slow, so you fine tune to get it just right. Problem with that, this weeks beans may not (and probably will not) grind the same as next weeks.

Take at look at my Gagga Factory, the forgotten lever thread. I am pulling a shot on my lever machine with fresh beans ground in my MDF. (I have a MDF at work and a Mazzer at home).

[nrwayne]

Generally, I grind beans within a week after they have been roasted. Often, it's within a few days. From my recent experimentation I've learned that the MDF needs to be set between 3 and 4 (depending upon the freshness of the beans and other variables). As soon as I went finer on the setting, crema magically appeared and the shot pulling time increased. At one point, I ground at setting 2, which was too fine. The shot took 40-45 seconds. I have since backed off to 3 (and sometimes 4) and the shots are now coming in the 25 second range. Small adjustment, major improvement in crema and taste. Either way, the Gaggia Espresso Deluxe does a brilliant job of frothng, especially so with whole milk. But even with low fat, frothing is superb. I'm pleasantly surprised to learn how little effort was needed to get the results I had originally expected. Thanks to all for your suggestions.

[ladalet]

I used a Gaggia MDF for about 2 years. The grind settings are wide. The grinder would be so much better if it had half steps between the current settings. I had to compensate for them by either erring on the coarse side and tamping harder or erring on the fine side and tamping lighter. Bottom line, use whatever grind setting and tamp that works. If 3 works, use it. One thing that can make the grinder not grind fine enough is when it gets clogged up with coffee powder. This happens more quickly when oily beans are used. To fix this you have to remove the hopper and upper burr to thoroughly clean it out. On my grinder at one time I found that I was beginning to have to grind at 3 or 4 consistently instead of 5 or 6 as I was used to. Once I broke it down and cleaned it I was able to grind at 5 and 6 again and the coffee was better to boot.

As for coffee freshness, date or roast is very important. So is when you open the bag. The issues that affect how fast coffee beans go stale are: 1) exposure to oxygen, and 2) exposure to ultra violet light. If you can remove these two variables from the coffee beans you can extend the beans shelf life. If the beans are vacuum packed with nitrogen the shelf life is doubled over just vacuum packaging(ex. Illy uses nitrogen packaging). Most vacuum packaged beans have a bleed off valve so that the C02 that is given off of the beans can be vented from the bag. However, when the bag of beans gets to this point I would imagine the shot quality would already be compromised.

If the coffee is loose and purchased from a bulk bin or in a non-sealed bag you need to use it up within a week of the roast date. Remember, darker roasts turn stale faster than lighter roasts.

If the coffee is in a nitrogen sealed bag it can last up to 6 months.

If the coffee is in a vacuum sealed bag it can last up to 3 months.

Once opened, shot quality and crema will go down with each day after opening. By day 4 you may need to either grind finer or tamp harder to maintain crema. The longer the coffee was in the sealed bag the quicker the coffee will go stale once opened. Even a nitrogen sealed bag at the end of 6 months my show signs of being stale after just a day or 2 after opening. I struggled with freshness when I was using Lavazza Pienaroma espresso from Italy. When it was good it was fantastic. When it was bad it was very bad--no crema or flavor. A bag of coffee should have the bag tightly packed around the beans inside with no looseness in the packaging. If the bag is loose or even puffy avoid purchasing. I hope this helps.

Best wishes,
Lance

[JonR10]

If you can remove these two variables from the coffee beans you can extend the beans shelf life. If the beans are vacuum packed with nitrogen the shelf life is doubled over just vacuum packaging(ex. Illy uses nitrogen packaging). Most vacuum packaged beans have a bleed off valve so that the C02 that is given off of the beans can be vented from the bag. However, when the bag of beans gets to this point I would imagine the shot quality would already be compromised.

(Lance - no offense intended - OK?)

I'll try to stay factual...

To be strict with language, if a bag is vacuum packed then by definition it cannot be Nitrogen-filled.
Coffee Beans give off CO2 for several days after roasting, starting immediately.
When the beans STOP degassing then the remaining lifetime is limited - in most cases.

If the coffee is in a nitrogen sealed bag it can last up to 6 months.

If the coffee is in a vacuum sealed bag it can last up to 3 months.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion of course, and each is free to enjoy coffee however he or she chooses.

I refrain from using any bean that is 3 or 6 months after roast no matter what means was used to preserve. My experience of Illy was that the first shot or two after opening the Nitrogen-pressurized container were passable (flavor nice - body and crema lacking). The coffee went stale (to my tastes) within hours of opening the package.

So saying "coffee can last" really depends on each person's own perspective and tastes.

Now that I have some home roasting experience, and now that I have experienced a few REALLY freshly roasted coffees blended and expertly roasted by artisans like Jason (Coffee Emergency), Tony (Metropolis Coffee), Tony (Caffe fresco), Mike (Cuvee Coffee), and the crew at Intelligentsia (try Black Cat) I can honestly say that in my own experience:

Packaged coffee products older than 3 weeks after roasting are simply inferior to freshly roasted.

This is independant of the preservation methods I have personally tried (vacuum packed, frozen, Nitrogen flushed and vacuum+frozen).

[ladalet]

Jon,

We are not in disagreement. I agree that coffee consumed within 3 weeks of roasting is optimal if vacuum or nitrogen packed. I however would not purchase coffee more than a couple of days after roast if not vacuum or nitrogen packed. My language on nitrogen packed I guess was ambiguous. The only coffee I made mention of that was vacuum packed was Illy and it comes in a can not a bag. As for vacuum packaged lasting up to 3 months and nitrogen up to 6 months, this is an accepted industry standard for coffee freshness for shelf life before expiration only and not what I would consider optimal. I did mention that the closer that the coffee comes to the end of that time span the quicker it will go stale and loose crema once opened. This does imply that it is already somewhat stale already. I guess I should have stated it explicitly. Again, I agree that after about 3 weeks after roasting in both vacuum and nitrogen packaging optimum flavor and crema are compromised.

I also have done fresh home roasting and have some friends that roast commercially and have tasted the delights of fresh roasted beans. There really is no comparison. I did not mean to imply at all that packaged coffee would still have optimal cup quality up to those time frames. My purpose only was to help define what could be affecting crema for Wayne without getting overly technical and was not going into what would affect optimal cup quality. Both vacuum and nitrogen packed coffees should still have decent crema a couple of months after roasting and for at least a couple of days after opening the bag.

I personally can really vouch for how cup quality varies with vacuum packed coffee from the time of roast date. I had been purchasing Lavazza Pienaroma for several years (off and on) and have experience cup quality all over the map. You have to purchase it in 2.2lb (kilo) bags. I have had to split the bags with friends and family. On some bags I have had some of the best espresso ever and on others almost no crema upon opening. I no longer purchase imported coffees for this reason. Lavazza is not the only imported coffee I have experience this with. I now only purchase my coffee fresh from a local roaster or roast it myself.

I have recently purchased storage containers that allow you to pump out the air to help maintain freshness. Since the sides of the container are clear I keep the beans in a small burlap bag inside the container. Where before I experienced diminished cup quality after about 4 to 5 days after roast, I now have postponed that for up to 7 to 8 days. An exception to this are some coffees that taste better 24 to 48 hours after roast. Those usually can last up to a week normally and up to 10 days kept in my vacuum storage containers.

Best wishes,
Lance

[barry]

As for vacuum packaged lasting up to 3 months and nitrogen up to 6 months, this is an accepted industry standard for coffee freshness for shelf life before expiration only and not what I would consider optimal.

optimal or not, there is no such industry standard.

[HB]

I asked Peter from Counter Culture Coffee about the dating of their products at Whole Foods. With a heavy sigh, he explained that merchants have some say on the "best if used by" dates as part of their agreement to stock the product, which he concedes are unlikely to fully agree with the roaster's more stringent recommendations. One innnovative approach CCC employed to send the "consume it while it's fresh" message was to change their exterior packaging to brown paper. Although the bag has the same airtight interior as their prior shiny plastic bag, the analogy to other perishables like bread sold in a paper bag is evident.

[ladalet]

Just curious. Did you resolve your crema issue? And if so, what was the solution?

[nrwayne]

Partially resolved. By grinding finer (usually 3 on the MDF) and varying my tamping method, I've been successful about 50% of the time. What causes occasional problems now is differences in beans. So with each batch of beans I find that I have to start experimenting again, which is time consuming and inconvenient. What's surprising is that with my old Briel Lido, I got crema consistently . . . along with good taste. The Gaggia setup is a lot fussier and nowhere near as consistent. I suppose I'm missing something here, but have yet to learn what it is.

[barry]

What's surprising is that with my old Briel Lido, I got crema consistently . . .

quote from the president of briel usa, about ten years ago: "we can get crema out of folgers."

the lido has a 'crema-enhancing' portafilter basket.

[nrwayne]

Yours truly is by no means the fastest in town. It took me a full year from the time I got my Gaggia Espresso Deluxe and MDF to figure out that the problems I have been having are unrelated to my poor technique. After I don't know how many different grinds and tamps, I got around to doing the styrofoam cup test and was not at all surprised to learn that my machine wasn't even coming close to the temperature needed. The typical reading was barely above 160 degrees. I did the test numerous times and finally called Whole Latte Love to learn how they could help me. The machine was just out of warranty, but they agreed to cover the cost of repair, if needed. I told them it was probably the brew thermostat. Anyway, I shipped the machine back to them and after two weeks learned that both thermostats had to be replaced along with a few other parts. They said they tested it 10 times and it's now working fine. Should be back here by Fedex tomorrow. I'm very much looking forward to my first decent shot from this machine.
I appreciate all the helpful comments posted here. Many thanks.

[nrwayne]

Got the machine and results are much improved, thanks partially to the First Line tamper I just got. In the interest of ensuring the proper temperature, I always pull a blank shot first. This results in good crema and taste just about every time. I still have to perfect my tamping technique and pressure, but that should be easy enough. We're definitely on the right track, thanks to guidance from posters and from the fix at Whole Latte Love.