Gaggia Classic beginner - fast blonding, dripping shots

[dsc]

Ola everyone

As you can see by the number of my posts I'm a total beginner here, although I have been reading a lot of these forums lately.
First of all let me introduce myself: I'm Tom and I'm from Poland (a place where it's hard to get most coffee related stuff, like tampers, good espresso machines and where people usually say "espresso" not espresso:)), a week or so ago I bought a Gaggia Classic and an MDF burr grinder. It was really hard to get this set, well because people in my country don't care much about good coffee and usually use automachines. I have never used a semiauto in my life, till now I used to make coffee in moka machines. I've read a lot of articles about making espresso, frothing milk and things related with espresso and couldn't wait to get my hands on the Classic. I also ordered some fresh roasted beans (roasted on 27.11.06, so not so fresh any more) and waited for my package to arrive. When it finally came in I plugged it in and filled the boiler with water. It turned out that there's a leak inside and water started to flow from everywhere (the pipe coming from the pump was loose and water started flowing literaly inside the machine, on the cables, boiler and everything else). I had to take off the top and plug the pipe inside the pump, I also decieded to check how the OPV works and made some small corrections (had to loosen the spring inside, cause with a blank basket the flow from the OPV back to the water reservoir was less than 100ml/30s). So after some small DIY and drying the inside of the machine I started making coffee. And here's where it gets tricky:) (I knew it won't be easy:))

A lot of coffees went into the sink before I could get around 60ml (double basket) in around 25s. I'm using pure arabica, so I guess the crema shouldn't be too huge, but frankly I'm a bit disappointed with it, it's around 2cm after extraction, but drops down to about 0,5cm in a few seconds. I'm not sure if it's because the beans aren't fresh enough or I'm doing something wrong, but that's not the biggest problem.

Although I'm getting 60ml in 25s the coffee which flows from the PF gets really blond in around 15s and I know that's the sign to stop the extraction. I usually don't stop and end up with overextracted coffee. I've read that premature blonding is a problem which happens when there's not enough coffee, the tamp is canted or the coffee is not distributed properly. And I have a few questions regarding those reasons:

- not enough coffee: should I fill the whole double basket with coffee, level it so it's flat with the upper rim of the basket and then tamp? I ask because when checked how much coffee the basket holds it turned out to be around 16g not 14g. When I use only 14g the basket is not filled completely and so it's pretty hard to level the surface of the coffee. So should I overfill the basket, tap the PF a few times, level and tamp, or should I use less coffee and use my finger to level the coffee, tamp etc.?

- canted tamp: well this is pretty obvious, but because I have a really crappy scratchbuild tamper at home it's hard to get a good tamp, but I'm ordering a TORR tamper really soon:)

- coffee distribution: I try to fill the basket with coffee so that there's no bigger gaps without coffee, I move my PF under the grinder so that coffee gets into all the places, I also use the NSEW method to move the coffee in the basket and before that I tap the PF against the table-top. Should I do something more? Weiss technique maybe?

I tried grinding finer (mdf 3 setting), but I only get around 30ml in 25s. I also tried to grind finer and tamp lighter, but still less than 50ml in 25s. Currently I'm working with the 4th setting in my MDF.

Is it possible that premature blonding is caused by channeling? I might be tamping wrong because my tamper is really uncomfortable (it's a mix of the Gaggia tamper, a spray cover and a 58mm disk made from plastic).

Could you perhaps give me some hints or tips on what to change? I would be really grateful:)

Right now the whole procedure looks like this:

1. Get the machine hot, which takes around 20-30min (PF in the group)

2. Take the beans for the fridge and put it in the grinder

3. Grind into the PF (which is dried with a cloth) focusing on even distribution

4. Level it with my finger using the NSEW technique, tamp lightly with the nutating motion

5. Tamp harder with a twist at the end

6. Fix the PF in the group

7. Place a preheated cup under the group and press the button

After a few second the pump starts to work harder and two coffee streams appear, they are really dark. After a few seconds the streams change color into something lighter (brownish). Most of the time the stream isn't solid, it breaks and dripping appears. After around 15s the stream goes from foamy to blond water.

I'm already planning to order a good tamper, as I mentioned above and maybe also an NPF. I understand that NPF is good to check for extraction errors, like channeling or too fast pours. Would it help me in the beginning or would it make things even harder?

Thanks a lot for any help,
Cheers,
dsc.

[jesawdy]

- not enough coffee: should I fill the whole double basket with coffee, level it so it's flat with the upper rim of the basket and then tamp? I ask because when checked how much coffee the basket holds it turned out to be around 16g not 14g. When I use only 14g the basket is not filled completely and so it's pretty hard to level the surface of the coffee. So should I overfill the basket, tap the PF a few times, level and tamp, or should I use less coffee and use my finger to level the coffee, tamp etc.?

- canted tamp: well this is pretty obvious, but because I have a really crappy scratchbuild tamper at home it's hard to get a good tamp, but I'm ordering a TORR tamper really soon:)

- coffee distribution: I try to fill the basket with coffee so that there's no bigger gaps without coffee, I move my PF under the grinder so that coffee gets into all the places, I also use the NSEW method to move the coffee in the basket and before that I tap the PF against the table-top. Should I do something more? Weiss technique maybe?

Yes, you should try updosing. At first I would try just leveling at the basket rim, and not a lot of tapping on the counter. You may find you need to change your grind a bit with more coffee.

Also, refer to the Dose and Tamp Techniques thread for some illustrations of how to dose/distribute to the edge of the basket.

Your crema woes may be related to the overextraction, the age of the coffee (although it ought to be just fine), or the fact that you are just getting started. It will take awhile to get consistent results.

Yes, a naked portafilter is also a good idea.

And welcome to HB.... thanks for being the thoughtful "newbie", that has already researched a lot.

[dsc]

Ola jesawdy

Thanks a lot for the tips and a great link to all those dosing techniques, I will read it right away.

I just finished my espresso practice and this is what I have to say:

- I got 60ml in 25s and even a 2cm crema on top, but only when I tamped with around 50kgs:| I used the weight of my body to tamp and I have to say the pour came out pretty well, almost no dripping, constant flow. Finished the shot after 25s, a bit too late, cause I saw two lighter blond spots on the surface of the crema. But it's better

- I tried to grind finer (on the 3rd setting on MDF) and tamped lighter, but sadly I only got 30ml in 25s and a small but thick crema, I guess that setting is too fine.

I also have a few questions:

1. is it better to grind finer and tamp lighter than grind coarser and tamp really hard?

2. is it normal that the pour goes from really dark to brown in the first 5s of the pour, or is it too fast? The pour stars to come out of the PF around 5-6s after I hit the switch

I will order that NPF and tamper and I hope to see my shots improved. If not I will still be able to say if I'm strugling with chanelling or not. Plus the view is great:)

Cheers and thanks again,
dsc.

[dsc]

Ola again,

sorry for answering to my own post I just wanted to post a couple of pictures of my extraction. The thing is that I don't even know how a good espresso tastes, cause I don't have any local coffee places which sell good espresso, only 15 seconds "expressos". I have also never seen in person how someone makes good espresso. So I'm a bit walking in the dark now:|

Here's my "crema" a few seconds after extraction, it's much bigger after I hit the OFF switch, Guiness effect and all, but it falls really fast (Saeco coffee, only for testing, so I guess it's normal):

and a side view:

that blue line is the 60ml level.

Here's how the coffee cake looks:



I guess there's some side channeling going on right?

Already ordered an NPF and a good tamper, so my extraction should improve over time. At least I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

You can see two lighter spots on the cream'a, it means that the extraction got finished too late, am I right?

Sorry for my english and for asking "newbie" questions.

Cheers,
dsc.

[jesawdy]

1. is it better to grind finer and tamp lighter than grind coarser and tamp really hard?

2. is it normal that the pour goes from really dark to brown in the first 5s of the pour, or is it too fast? The pour stars to come out of the PF around 5-6s after I hit the switch

1 - There is no hard and fast rule... it's what works and tastes good to you. You can do from no tamp (pressing against the showerscreen) and a fine grind, to a very hard tamp and coarser grind.

2 - I would say that is normal.... you will be able to see better what is happening when you get your naked portafilter.

To your pictures, I think they look pretty good... a little (very little) overextracted as evidenced by the lighter spots in the crema produced by the end of the pour.

I think your crema production is actually quite good. The size and shape of that cup isn't helping to make your crema look real thick. If you pulled straight into a 2 or 3 ounce shot glass, I think your crema would appear much thicker and persist a bit more.

You're doing good... how does it taste?

[dsc]

Ola jesawdy

Thanks for your reply and answers.

How does it taste? Well...hmm... like really strong coffee:) it is a double, but made from crappy beans, so it's really bitter. Sadly I have nothing to compare it too, so I don't even know what to expect. It's hard to explain how it should taste, so I'm not even asking. Plus different brands taste different.

Here's some photos I made today during one of my extractions:

2-3 seconds after coffee started to flow:



a couple of seconds later:



and the last few seconds, blonding and "dancing" flow:



I guess the "tails" are too thick at the beginning, am I right? Blonding appears too soon, but it might as well be the coffee that's bad. I tried grinding at the third setting on my MDF and tamped a bit lighter, but the flow was dripping and it only gave 50ml/30s. Also a lot less crema. I guess a setting of 3,5 would be good, but sadly it's not a stepless grinder:|

The flow on the 4th setting was also steady until the last few seconds. But considering it's 100% arabica it can happen right?

Maybe other Gaggia Classic users can share their experience with this machine:) in their "newbie" days:)

Thanks again and
Cheers,
dsc.

[Beezer]

I have a Gaggia Classic and a Rocky grinder at home, and also a Gaggia Coffee (similar to the Classic but without the 3-way valve) and MDF at work. I've been getting pretty good, consistent shots with the Classic, which I attribute mostly to good, fresh beans (Koffee Klatch Belle Espresso) and the Rocky grinder.

The MDF is harder to work with because the steps are too wide to really dial in your shots. This might be part of your problem. I find that with the MDF at work, my shots run too fast at setting 7, but too slow at setting 6. I try to solve this problem by forcing the grinder to go between 6 and 7, which more or less works but requires you to hold the hopper at setting "6.5".

I wish the MDF had finer clicks, then it would be nearly as good as the Rocky. Or better yet, make it stepless like the Macap M4. I wonder if the Rocky stepless mod would work on the MDF. Anyone tried it?

[dsc]

Hi again

Yes it is a bit annoying that the MDF is not a stepless grinder, but currently I don't think this is my biggest problem. Everytime I try to make a coffee I get early blonding. I think it is connected with the fact that I'm not using super fresh beans (roasted around 3 weeks ago), but I'm not 100% sure about that. I've read that blonding usually means the stream going from dark brown to really light and thin. My pour usually looks like this:



Coffee starts to flow at around 7-8s and around 15th second it goes from thin to thick with the color changing from dark brown to light brown, but still delivers a lot of foam. I checked my coffee pucks after extraction and they usually have the shower screen impression left on them, are dry and solid like this:



So is the premature blonding caused by old beans? I'm using pure arabica if that is of any help.
I tried grinding finer but can't get more than 40ml/30s from the double basket with such grinder setting(and even then blonding happens at the 20th second).

Oh and for a stepless MDF mod try this:

http://coffeeaspirations.blogspot...ca-and-how-to.html

Cheers,
dsc.

[cannonfodder]

I would say, old beans are a big part of your problem. Three weeks old is getting up there, when we say fresh beans that means 3-10 days out of the roaster. Most blends will still work out to 14 days but have long passed their prime flavor window. 21 days post roast is pretty far out. Once my roasts hit two weeks they go in the drip pot at work (but they rarely last 7 days).

A slight imprint of the shower screen/screw in the surface of the puck after a shot is normal. You may want to check your headspace to make sure the puck surface is not hitting the shower screen. Dose and tamp as you normally would, then lock the portafilter into the group. Then remove the portafilter and look at the pucks surface. If there is an imprint of the screw or shower screen or any rub marks or cracks, you are over dosing. A good starting point is 1/8 inch headspace between the dry puck surface and the shower screen.

[dsc]

Hi cannonfodder

Thanks for your reply.

I usually dose so that I can lock my PF into the group without touching the screen with the tamped coffee. I can also place a coin on the surface of the puck and lock the PF into the group and after removing the PF there's no coin impression on the coffee, so I guess I have around 2-3mm of space between the coffee and the shower screen.

My puck usually looks like the one you showed on the picture, dry, with a slight screen impression. Yet I'm still getting premature blonding. I think it's the beans that are causing this. I will have to try some fresh roasted beans and see how it goes.

One more question: is the color of crema somehow connected with the level of the roast? For example light roasted coffee gives lighter crema, medium roasted gives darker crema and so on?

Cheers,
dsc.

[jesawdy]

I usually dose so that I can lock my PF into the group without touching the screen with the tamped coffee. I can also place a coin on the surface of the puck and lock the PF into the group and after removing the PF there's no coin impression on the coffee, so I guess I have around 2-3mm of space between the coffee and the shower screen.

I would try updosing just a bit more. I would try to dose up until you do get a slight impression of that coin. I think headspace and acceptable shots can vary from machine to machine a good bit. You will have to play by trial and error to find what works best for your machine. You may even be abe to go all the way up until you just touch (but don't scrape) the shower screen on lock-in. Keep in mind that you may end up tweaking grind again with a change in dose.

Have you (or do you intend to) try that teflon tape mod to the MDF grinder?

Have you had any luck sourcing more fresh beans?

[cannonfodder]

I think headspace and acceptable shots can vary from machine to machine a good bit. You will have to play by trial and error to find what works best for your machine.

It does vary between machines, which is why I suggested that as a starting point.

Good espresso takes time and practice. Get yourself some fresh beans and you may surprise yourself.

[HB]

My puck usually looks like the one you showed on the picture, dry, with a slight screen impression. Yet I'm still getting premature blonding. I think it's the beans that are causing this. I will have to try some fresh roasted beans and see how it goes.

The pour started out looking sweet and then something happened around 24-26 seconds into the video. I'll go along with Jeff's recommendation to updose a bit under the assumption that there's too much headspace and the puck is pulling away from the basket (the picture of the puck shows no evidence of channeling); reducing the headspace may help press it more firmly against the bottom of the basket. Sourcing some fresh roast and getting a bottomless portafilter would certainly help too.

One more question: is the color of crema somehow connected with the level of the roast? For example light roasted coffee gives lighter crema, medium roasted gives darker crema and so on?

Maybe a little, but I think the coloring correlates more with the extraction (brewing ratio?) than the roast level. Crema colors for the same medium roasts I use can vary from walnut to dark brown / ruby red, especially for triples.

[dsc]

Ola everyone

Thanks for the replies jesawdy, cannonfodder and HB.

My new tamper and NPF arrived yesterday and I tried my luck with the new equipment. Few things I noticed:

- the upper piece of the Gaggia double basket is larger than 58mm diameter and so my new 58mm TORR tamper is a bit too small. This causes coffee to stay in the gap between the tamper and the basket when I tamp. Should I knock the PF with the tamper lightly to throw that small amount of coffee from the sides of the basket? Or is it a bad thing to do (I heard it can disturb the coffee puck)

- I overdosed the double basket when using the NPF, so that it locked into the group with some resistance, yet still I got premature blonding. I mean at first everything looked good:



but around the 15th second, bang!:



Gotta try some fresh beans to see if it's me that's making the mistake somewhere or is it indeed the coffee.

This was my first try ever with the NPF so I'm pretty happy it didn't left my whole kitchen cover in coffee, as NPF extractions can be messy:)

Do you perhaps know if the Classic likes to have more coffee (overdose) or less coffee (underdose) to achieve a perfect extraction? I just read HB post about dosing (somewhere above in this section):

"The optimal dosage depends on several factors, e.g., the desired headspace. Some espresso machines extract better with lots of headspace (down dosed) while others perform better with little or no headspace (up dosed)."
(http://www.home-barista.com/forums/practice-makes-perfect-diary-of-a-wannabe-t2714.html)

and was wondering whether I should in fact overdose or not. I've seen some Classic extractions where there was a lot of room between the shower screen and the puck, yet somehow it came out pretty well.

Oh and Merry Christmas everyone:)
Cheers,
dsc.

[welone]

Hi everyone

Thanks a lot for this thread, for me being newbish, it has been answering a heap of questions concerning the use of my gaggia classic. And thanks dsc for your link to "making your mdf stepless". I could use it well for a take-apart guide for cleaning and will probably also get me sooner or later some teflon tape to modifying it.

I'm using quite fresh roasted coffee from our local store (maximum half a week since roasting) and in the few attempts I was getting a dark and slow outflow in the beginning always ended up in blonding after 15 seconds too. So I'm really interested in the further developments of this thread; your first picture of the naked portafilter pour looks awesome dsc!

I wonder how you temperature control your gaggia besides a heat-up time of minimum 20 min? I heard of basically two techniques, both including the refilling of the boiler. The first is to pull a blank shot first and let the machine heat up to pull the shot, the second one states that the first gush of heat should be released before pulling the shot. And they also vary between running the water through the portafilter or releasing the water through the steam wand (open steam knob, push steam rocker, push pump rocker). What technique do you recommend to use?

Greets and merry christmas

welone

[dsc]

Ola welone

Lately I've been using less coffee but with a finer grind, but unfortunately I wasn't able to test it enough because my last fresh coffee batch ended.

As for the NPF I'm only beginning my journey, so it doesn't look like it should, but it's still quite amazing to see how the coffee flows.

I usually let my Classic sit for about 30-50min and before doing a shot I press the brew button (without the PF in the group) to let out some of the really hot water - it's a cooling flush. After that I lock my PF in the group and begin the extraction. Before use I often refill the boiler with fresh water by hitting the brew button and filling a 150ml glass.

Cheers,
dsc.

[dmankin]

If anyone has either purchased or made their own naked portafilter for a Gaggia Classic, I'd love to know more about it. I make a pretty decent shot with my 1.5 yr. old Classic, but I'm itching to try a naked portafilter - I'm sure I can improve my extractions if only I could see what's going on actively! I'm even trying to find an old Gaggia portafilter on eBay to attack with a dremel tool, but few ever come by.

Thanks,

Dave

[dsc]

Hi

I bought my NPF through:

http://www.pasmarose.de/catalog/

The quality is great and it's not that expensive.

If you can find a used PF for Gaggia I would suggest buying it and making an NPF on your own. It shouldn't be hard and you already have a dremmel, so you are half way there:).

Cheers,
dsc.

[cannonfodder]

I documented the process, How To Make Your Own Naked Portafilter and others have added to it. Wholelattelove.com sells a bottomless Gaggia portafilter. I used one during the bench review of the Gaggia Achille.

[DigMe]

If anyone has either purchased or made their own naked portafilter for a Gaggia Classic, I'd love to know more about it.

Easy and takes less than ten minutes once you have the right tools:

How to go bottomless with a drill and hole-saw bit

bc