Freeze 'n' Re-freeze

[Marshall]

I am here to plead guilty to coffee abuse. Because of the shipping cost and time, I rarely order East Coast coffees. But, Counter Culture's free shipping promotion this month was too good to pass up. I figured that, even if I only had a couple of days to enjoy it, at least it would have been a reasonable investment.

But, events conspired against me. My order of Espresso Toscano arrived while I was in the middle of a once-in-a-lifetime Experimental Blend from Ecco. Decisions, decisions. I froze the Toscano, while it was still unopened. When I finished the Ecco, I opened the Toscano, was loving it and then was called out of town. I did something I never did before. I re-froze it. Someone once warned me about the terrible damage that re-freezing did to food. I don't know if it is true, but the advice stayed with me.

This morning I defrosted the Toscano, expecting a disaster. But, no! That sweet, nutty flavor and thick crema came right back. A revelation!

I obviously can't predict how every coffee will react, but if you have to leave town midway through a bag, have no fear, freeze it (or re-freeze it.).

[lberg]

I've also re-frozen beans before, without negative results (that were noticeable to me, a newbie).

[zoroaster]

Marshall how did you freeze them both times? First time in the travel bag alone, or bag in bag? Do you use mason jars or always in a different vessel? Dave. BTW, I have yet to find a Toscano match. What are your other favorites (not to hijack, but perhaps we have similar tastes).

[Marshall]

Marshall how did you freeze them both times? First time in the travel bag alone, or bag in bag? Do you use mason jars or always in a different vessel? Dave. BTW, I have yet to find a Toscano match. What are your other favorites (not to hijack, but perhaps we have similar tastes).

Second time in a mason clamp jar.

[another_jim]

Refreezing food with water destroys the cell walls as the water crystallizes. I don't know why this doesn't happen the first time you freeze anything. Roasted coffee has no moisture content, nothing crystallizes, and nothing is damaged. As long as you freeze and refreeze dry or vacuum packed beans, extra staling is the only bad thing that can happen. And on this front refreezing is obviously better than leaving the coffee out.

[Ken Fox]

People talk of "condensation" that appears on beans after they are frozen and which supposedly damages them. This is one of those great truths handed down from on high that people are supposed to accept as received wisdom without further thought. The only problem is that no one has proven in any sort of reasonably verifiable experiment that condensation that might or might not occur on the surface of defrosted beans has any effect. But to listen to some whose wisdom comes from on high, it is undeniable fact

As one of the very few people who has actually tried to study in a controlled fashion the effect of freezing on coffee, I have no opinion on the effect of refreezing previously frozen coffee (in all honesty I don't think I've ever done it). In fact, the overwhelming majority of coffee I drink has never been frozen, although there are times when I do consume my own previously frozen coffee as a matter of convenience, when I get very busy and don't have time to roast, or when I'm coming back from an extended trip. I've never been able to convince myself that I could tell the difference as long as the coffee hasn't been out of the freezer for an inordinate period or been frozen for more than a few months (with freezing in my hands occurring immediately after roasting, as detailed in the "freezing article.")

There are some issues that have been raised by others and some I've had myself with the original study reported here on this website. These issues do not cause me to doubt the results but do encourage me to repeat a limited comparison with another trusted taster, Jim S., on his next visit here whenever that might occur. I'd like to run a limited comparison of more "reasonably" sized dosed shots (14g) comparing 2 or 3 month old frozen coffee vs. never frozen fresh of the same bean roasted to exactly the same profile. I'd expect the same results as before, but you never know. In any event, I don't see any point in testing the effects of refreezing and would suggest letting one's taste buds be the guide. My impression is that Jim has the correct take on this in his earlier post on this thread.

ken

[Marshall]

Welcome back.

[JohnB.]

So since the roasted beans have no moisture can they actually be "frozen" or are we just putting them in cold storage?

As far as the condensation issue I will confess to using beans directly out of the freezer on several occasions & I have yet to see any signs of moisture on the beans while they were being weighed or when they went into the grinder. I also have not noticed any difference in the taste of the shot whether the beans were ground when warm or cold.

[stefano65]

We buy coffee for our home use by the 5lb bag
we vacuum seal it and put it in the barn's deep freezer
i can never tell the difference from the 3-4 day fresh one
however
beats leaving a 5lb bag around for 2-3 weeks getting older

[Ozark_61]

I don't know where the refreezing no-no started, but doesn't really matter - but AFAIK, cellular damage to plants that make them mushy happens via water inside the cell walls of the material, not externally. The frozen water crystals in the cells puncture the cell walls and make mush. Makes for a great quick 'n dirty way to make cabbage rolls rather than the pita steaming but can't see how it would damage the coffee even if you sprinkled water on the beans and then re-froze them. Good to bring this up though, hadn't even thought about refreezing.

[Nickk1066]

Agreed, I'll order a set of 250g bags. These usually arrive the day after roasting so are still degassing.

Once I have then the unopened bags goes into the deep freeze. When I open a bag, I'll immediately pour the beans straight into a about 3 or 4 small re-sealable plastic containers. However they then sit on the shelf over then following period. This allows (a) for them to age and (b) allows the beans to get up to room temperature.

I'd say the bean life is doubled whilst in the freezer. Although I've not scientifically proven that..

[Phaelon56]

So since the roasted beans have no moisture can they actually be "frozen" or are we just putting them in cold storage?

Roasted beans do have some moisture as coffee is a hygroscopic food product. The fact that you have to keep adjusting your espresso grinder as relative humidity in the room increases or decreases is one example of the evidence. The amount of moisture - by percentage of wight - is far lower than in green beans but roasted beans absorb moisture more readily than green beans as the cell wall structure has been altered by roasting.

As far as the condensation issue I will confess to using beans directly out of the freezer on several occasions & I have yet to see any signs of moisture on the beans while they were being weighed or when they went into the grinder. I also have not noticed any difference in the taste of the shot whether the beans were ground when warm or cold.

I always let my beans thaw thoroughly before opening the ziploc freezer bag and my typical practice is to split the 1 lb bags into two 1/2 lb packages before freezing. But I did recently - due to unexpected travel - have to refreeze about 1/2 lb of beans that had already been thawed. There was a noticeable loss of crema when I re-thawed them after my return and made some shots - but the flavor was still good.

[JohnB.]

Roasted beans do have some moisture as coffee is a hygroscopic food product. The fact that you have to keep adjusting your espresso grinder as relative humidity in the room increases or decreases is one example of the evidence. The amount of moisture - by percentage of wight - is far lower than in green beans but roasted beans absorb moisture more readily than green beans as the cell wall structure has been altered by roasting.

They may absorb moisture sitting on your counter but how much is in the bean when you receive them in a sealed bag from your roaster? If you open the bag & immediately vacuum seal the beans before freezing I would think there would be little if any moisture content inside the bean.

[ChrisC]

Here are two questions I currently have about freezing beans -- anyone's info appreciated, and hopefully this isn't considered a hijacking of this thread:

- how important is letting beans thaw before grinding? Does it damage the burrs or something to grind them when 'frozen'? Does it affect the resulting coffee? (I think I saw a posting once that claimed it helped offset the heat generated when grinding...)

- I know someone who has been experimenting with pulling the air-tight sealed beans out of the freezer, opening it, scooping out the beans needed that day, resealing the container, and putting it back in the freezer -- a big no-no according to the posts I've read on the subject. He says he has yet to see any negative impact from this practice. Any thoughts?

Thanks!

[another_jim]

If the room temperature and humidity are normal, exposing the frozen beans will cover them with condensate: not good for the taste -- really, really bad for the grinder.

[JohnB.]

If the room temperature and humidity are normal, exposing the frozen beans will cover them with condensate: not good for the taste -- really, really bad for the grinder.

You might think this would happen but I've yet to see it happen. Normally I do "thaw" the beans before using but every once in a while I'm in a hurry & just grab some out of the freezer. Just for the heck of it I just took some beans out of the deep freeze & poured them in my weighing cup. No moisture appeared on the beans as it would on the glass jar they came out of. Even rubbing them in my hand showed no sign of moisture.

[Marshall]

You might think this would happen but I've yet to see it happen. Normally I do "thaw" the beans before using but every once in a while I'm in a hurry & just grab some out of the freezer. Just for the heck of it I just took some beans out of the deep freeze & poured them in my weighing cup. No moisture appeared on the beans as it would on the glass jar they came out of. Even rubbing them in my hand showed no sign of moisture.

Possibly because, unlike the glass jar, the beans may have quickly absorbed the condensate.

[JohnB.]

Possibly because, unlike the glass jar, the beans may have quickly absorbed the condensate.

Possibly but if they truly are frozen its unlikely. Also if the amount of moisture on the beans(if there is any) is so small that it can not be seen or felt do you really think its an issue? Most of my beans are frozen in vacuum sealed bags & unlike the glass jars I seldom see condensation on the bags after removal from the freezer nevermind on the beans I remove from the bag.

Just to be clear I let my frozen beans come up to room temp 98% of the time but the few times I've used them right out of the freezer I had no issues & the shots were fine.

[GC7]

My foodsaver vacuum unit has been one of the best investments I've ever made.

I store my green beens vacuum sealed in bags (but in a 57* wine storage unit) and my roasted beans mostly in the vacuum canisters.

Great for everything from steaks to fresh herbs from the garden to hold over in winter too