Fluke vs. Omega Dataloggers for use with Scace thermofilter

[Ken Fox]

If you obsess about shot temperatures, you will probably ultimately buy a Scace Device, and once you buy one of those you will need a datalogger to record the temperatures obtained. There are 3 serious choices I'm aware of for dataloggers; the Fluke 54 series, the Omega HH506RA, and Picotech TC-08. The Picotech costs the most, has 8 channels (overkill for most), has no screen for realtime viewing, and must be connected to a computer via USB port to view shot temperatures. The Fluke and the Omega function both as self-contained handhelds with LCD screens, and log the temps obtained in memory. The Fluke 54-II is very well constructed, operates intuitively, but costs twice as much as the Omega which is less well put together, somewhat harder to use, but comes with very basic software which allows downloading of the data obtained via either serial or USB (extra cost) ports. The fluke has such software available for purchase at the absurd price of around $150, making the Omega about 1/3rd the total cost of the Fluke if you want to download data directly without having to manually type it in.

Don't ask me why, but I currently own both the Fluke 54-II and the Omega HH506RA. Both are dual channel dataloggers, although only one channel is needed for use with the Scace. Given the huge price differential between these two units, I thought it would be useful to compare the two units in actual usage, with the Scace, to determine whether they were equivalent. The short answer is, they are.

The testbed was my modified Cimbali Junior D1 Rotary machine with PID and delay timer induced 6 second 3.5bar preinfusion. The actual data obtained is not important as we are comparing the performance of the dataloggers, not the espresso machine. I arbitrarily decided to use a boiler temperature of 230.5F, which I've previously found to produce shot temperatures within the range often recommended for espresso extraction. You will see in these curves that the consecutive shot series produces a declining temperature profile from shot to shot that stabilizes a couple of degrees lower than the every 10 minute (or longer) random walk-up shots. If the goal was to produce stable shot temperatures then one would want to extend the interval between shots slightly. Once again, however, the idea was to evaluate the dataloggers and not the espresso machine so we are looking at how similar the shot temperature curves are with the two dataloggers, not comparing the espresso machine's operation in two different scenarios.

First, here are consecutive shot series plots from the machine using both dataloggers:

and

And here we have the walk-up shots series as captured by the two dataloggers:

and

Having now used both dataloggers extensively, both with the Scace Device and with my roaster, the Fluke wins hands down for usability and ability to work with it as a handheld device, both while recording data and for review afterwards. As for ease of transfer of data for further use, e.g. plotting into a graph or entering into a spreadsheet or statistical analysis, stuff like that, the Omega wins by virtue of the ability to download the data without either paying $150 for some overpriced software or having to type the data in manually.

The best bang for the buck is clearly in the Omega; the most fun datalogger to use is the Fluke. Consult your bank account and make your choice

ken

p.s. this is crossposted on alt.coffee; please respond in one thread or the other but not both

[erics]

Firstly, thanks for posting the comparison between these two fine temperature measuring instruments. The Omega HH506RA is made in China to (I would think) Omega specifications. Another noteworthy temperature instrument company, Extech, distributes a HH506RA look-a-like (or vice-versa):

http://www.extech.com/instrument/...00_450/421509.html

The Extech model, IIRC, sells for about $15 more than the Omega but has one additional feature (that I can't recall now) and the instruction manual has, at least, been proofread. Software for the HH506RA, including the "instruction" manual is always available on the Omega FTP site:

ftp://ftp.omega.com/public/TEMPERATUREGroup/products/

Omega told me that the HH506RA "instruction" manual was in the product improvement pipeline as it well deserves. How I wish they would do the same for the POS data acquisition software! Have you tried using the Omega cable & software with the Fluke 54II or is the meter connection not compatible?

Eric S.

[Ken Fox]

Firstly, thanks for posting the comparison between these two fine temperature measuring instruments. The Omega HH506RA is made in China to (I would think) Omega specifications. Another noteworthy temperature instrument company, Extech, distributes a HH506RA look-a-like (or vice-versa):

http://www.extech.com/instrument/...00_450/421509.html

The Extech model, IIRC, sells for about $15 more than the Omega but has one additional feature (that I can't recall now) and the instruction manual has, at least, been proofread. Software for the HH506RA, including the "instruction" manual is always available on the Omega FTP site:

ftp://ftp.omega.com/public/TEMPERATUREGroup/products/

Omega told me that the HH506RA "instruction" manual was in the product improvement pipeline as it well deserves. How I wish they would do the same for the POS data acquisition software! Have you tried using the Omega cable & software with the Fluke 54II or is the meter connection not compatible?

Eric S.

Looking at the Extech data sheet online, the model appears identical to the Omega, as does the POS software. The Extech data sheet doesn't appear to reference the USB connection option, which is what I have been using. Whether this is because they don't sell that cable or that it appears elsewhere, I don't know. It looks like the mfr. of this meter makes both the meter and the software.

The only thing I know about the Fluke 54II data transfer is that it occurs via infrared. I don't see any ports on the 54II for plugging in a cable; if they exist one needs to remove the plastic yellow protective boot, which I doubt since that would make the boot more or less useless. I think the data transfer with the fluke is with that old IR technology directly to a PC, which has largely been obsoleted by bluetooth. When I got the Fluke I did try to get a couple of my computers with that sort of IR to recognize the Fluke but they could not locate it. Since the Omega uses a proprietary cable for which there is no connection on the Fluke, I don't see anyway to use the Omega software with the Fluke.

I have had some problems with tennis elbow on my right arm (I don't play tennis) which dates from some work I was doing on my espresso machine and use of my computer, especially the mouse. Having to type in a whole bunch of numbers into a spreadsheet or graphing program makes this problem worse so being able to download the data is well worth it to me.

Best,

ken

[jimr]

As I was bumbling my way around the Omega website looking for the HH506RA data logger, I stumbled across the NEW HH306 series. It is priced $40 higher than the 506, only does K type thermocouples but appears to have the ability to log 16,000 records versus 1024. It also talked to the tech support guys at Omega and they said the HH-306 software works and the 506 is "hit and miss". There is also a HH-309 which is 4 channel. Anyone have any experience with either of these devices?

Jim

[CoffeeAddict]

Slightly off-topic question I hope someone can answer: Fluke makes 53-2 model, which is supposed to be the same as 54-2 but with a single input. Is there any reason to choose more expensive 54 over 53?

[HB]

It's handy if you want to compare different temperatures simultaneously. For example, from Monitoring Brew Temperature - E61 & Silvia:

The prior chart only showed thermofilter readings. Below is an example of the two location readings shown together. To demonstrate the attenuating effect of the group, the adapter reading was taken from the bottom of the well (nearer the HX exit), not turn "D" as Eric's instructions suggest.


Temperature within the valve chamber exit (blue) versus thermofilter (red)

But it's not a "must have" feature.

[CoffeeAddict]

Thanks a lot. I don't think I'll ever need to do that so I'll save a few $ by getting 53.

[Ken Fox]

Thanks a lot. I don't think I'll ever need to do that so I'll save a few $ by getting 53.

I think it is false economy to get the 1 channel model.

You will be surprised what you come up with to monitor once you own the thing and the incremental cost of two channels is about $50 if memory serves. I've used 2 channels simultaneously for monitoring roasts in my roaster, and even when I'm only monitoring 1 thing at a time, if I end up inputting a lot of data that I only take off later, it is possible to input one cycle's worth of tests into the T1 channel, another's into the T2's channel, and still be able to tell which is which afterwards. Another example would be when I have done consecutive shot series at one boiler temperature as well as walk up shots, using the Scace Device. If I put the consecutive shots onto channel 1 and then the walk up shots into channel 2, I'm not obligated to take the data off of the device until it is convenient to do so, since I know which shots are which even after the fact.

ken

[cafeIKE]

Another data logger with software is the Extech 421590 http://www.extech.com/instrument/products/400_450/421509.html, about $150US
Comes with Windoze software.

Another is BK 715 http://www.bkprecision.com/www/np_specs.asp?m=715
Software extra.

Not used either, but found while browsing.

If using a laptop, the number of data points is irrelevant, as one can log the data to the PC until the batteries give out.

[another_jim]

As I was bumbling my way around the Omega website looking for the HH506RA data logger, I stumbled across the NEW HH306 series. It is priced $40 higher than the 506, only does K type thermocouples but appears to have the ability to log 16,000 records versus 1024. It also talked to the tech support guys at Omega and they said the HH-306 software works and the 506 is "hit and miss". There is also a HH-309 which is 4 channel. Anyone have any experience with either of these devices?

Jim

This is made by Centertek in Taiwan. An outfit called Omni Instruments sells the 2 and 4 channel models for less than Omega:
http://store.omniinstruments.net/omnidaq4t.htm

I have the four channel model, and it is very intuitive to use. The software is excellent for a freebie, but serious work will require porting the data from it to a spreadsheet or stats program. This is also easy.

It has two major drawbacks:
1. K type thermocouples only, e.g. will not work on a Scace unless you use a formula to convert the logged readings
2. It's very slow. While it will log 1 reading per second, it only updates every 2.5 seconds. I don't mind, since there will be no dramatic deviations from a straightline between two readings 2.5 seconds apart in an espresso shot. Moreover, I use it primarily for roast logging. However, some may find this a total pita.

I've decided to use only K-type TCs, since they cover all the temperatures that interest me, are waterproof, and come preassembled in every configuration possible. I don't need the added accuracy for my espresso machine, it's not nearly as stable as Ken's

As you see, using a fake scace consisting of a single basket with all but one holes blocked, the graphics aren't nearly as pretty as Ken's:

But for $195, it isn't all that shabby.

[CoffeeAddict]

Another example would be when I have done consecutive shot series at one boiler temperature as well as walk up shots, using the Scace Device. If I put the consecutive shots onto channel 1 and then the walk up shots into channel 2, I'm not obligated to take the data off of the device until it is convenient to do so, since I know which shots are which even after the fact.

ken

Thanks, Ken. I'm normally not the thrifty type so if there is even a remote chance I'll need something, I'll spend more money on a higher model. And your arguments are pretty convincing. 54 it is.

[erics]

Let me put a plug in for the Omega HH506RA. It is $145 plus shipping and comes with software and cable to write, via an RS232 port, a nice spreadsheet file (Microsoft Excel). For $30 additional you get a USB cable that also plugs into the meter.

The one feature that the Extech 421509 (HH506RA lookalike or vice versa) has that the 506RA doesn't is that it has connections for an AC adaptor (optional) and an alarm(s) relay. I believe the Extech runs around $160 - if you could get it for $150, that's a good deal.

The Omega (and Extech) do everything (essentially) that the Fluke does at essentially the same specifications for read-rate, accuracy, and thermocouple compatibility. But let there be no doubt that, IMO, the Fluke 54 series is one heck of a great instrument with a long standing reputation for quality and durability.

As regards ease of use, I defer to Ken's judgement that the Fluke is more intuitive (I think he said that) to use but I assure you that while you may have a one or two day burn-in with the Omega or Extech, after less than a week you will say it is "duck soup." All of these meters are fully capable of recording, storing, and transferring more data than you could even dream about plotting.

Even though you say you're not thrifty (and I applaud that attitude), the Fluke is about $350 (for the 54 series alone) and $150 additional if you want their software. Being a little kind with the numbers here, the Omega is about 1/3 the cost of the Fluke. No offense meant in saying this but that, to me, is beyond the bounds of thriftiness.


Eric S.

[Ken Fox]

Let me put a plug in for the Omega HH506RA. It is $145 plus shipping and comes with software and cable to write, via an RS232 port, a nice spreadsheet file (Microsoft Excel). For $30 additional you get a USB cable that also plugs into the meter.

The one feature that the Extech 42509 (HH506RA lookalike or vice versa) has that the 506RA doesn't is that it has connections for an AC adaptor (optional) and an alarm(s) relay. I believe the Extech runs around $160 - if you could get it for $150, that's a good deal.

The Omega (and Extech) do everything (essentially) that the Fluke does at essentially the same specifications for read-rate, accuracy, and thermocouple compatibility. But let there be no doubt that, IMO, the Fluke 54 series is one heck of a great instrument with a long standing reputation for quality and durability.

As regards ease of use, I defer to Ken's judgement that the Fluke is more intuitive (I think he said that) to use but I assure you that while you may have a one or two day burn-in with the Omega or Extech, after less than a week you will say it is "duck soup." All of these meters are fully capable of recording, storing, and transferring more data than you could even dream about plotting.

Even though you say you're not thrifty (and I applaud that attitude), the Fluke is about $350 (for the 54 series alone) and $150 additional if you want their software. Being a little kind with the numbers here, the Omega is about 1/3 the cost of the Fluke. No offense meant in saying this but that, to me, is beyond the bounds of thriftiness.


Eric S.

Everything you say is true, but I would not minimize the inherent cheapness of construction of the Omega device and its conjoiners. When you push a button on the Fluke, you get exactly the response you expect. When I press a button on the Omega, I have an 80% confidence level that the membrane switch under the keypad worked. So I'm always having to check to see if in fact the keypad button pushing worked. Also, when you are recording data, sometimes the timing gets rushed and you do what is intuitive. Let's say you pushed the "shift" button and assumed that it "took." Mind you, on the fluke all the major functions are "first order" functions that require only one button to be pushed, but on the Omega you have to have the damn thing in "shift" mode just to get the damn thing to log. If you did not push the shift button or if you pushed it and it didn't "take," then when you start your logging series, hitting the button that you thought would start logging but instead you have pushed the "Read" button and what you will get is an error message indicating an over temperature situation (that doesn't exist). As a result, if say you were doing a shot series, you then have to wait another 10 minutes or whatever, before you can try again. If you turn off the Omega in between shots (if there is a fairly long interval between them) then you have to remember to hit the "shift" button again and to check that when you hit the button it "took," or you will screw up your next attempt at logging as the meter does not remember that it was in shift mode before when you turn it back on. This sort of thing has happened to me many times, data lost due to poor meter design and poor product quality (granted I've done a lot of testing) and it gets to be frustrating and is a real time waster.

I don't find reviewing data on the Omega to be practical; I just have to download it through their clunky program. If you try to do this and are successful, you will go out of "shift" mode and then are likely to end up with the problem I refer to above on your next logged series. On the Fluke you can review logged data easily on the fly and then start logging some more data, seamlessly.

The Omega has a lot of functionality but it is really a cheap POS. Since most of us aren't made of money and since many of us don't do this sort of stuff for a living, we have to make compromises. And the Omega is a fairly significant compromise.

ken

[JimG]

I am late in finding this thread - sorry for the rehash.

I own both meters, and don't have any disagreements with what has already been written. But I think I can add a little new info, as well as reinforce some stuff that's already been covered.

Omega HH506RA (Extech 421509)
An area where the HH506RA really shines is the ability to log data directly to the PC in real time. This can be done without having to fiddle with the buttons on the meter, and allows graphical viewing of trends as they happen, rather than after downloading and post-processing. This visual feedback is especially helpful for activities like tuning controllers.

The HH506RA software is a little clunky, and the RS-232 link drops data all the time. But it usually recovers nicely, and then continues to march along. The recorded data file can be opened as-is in Excel, and plotted with almost no manipulation. I think the only limitation on data is the size of your hard drive. I have successfully recorded a few hours of temperatures at 1 second intervals.

Because of the weak user interface on the Omega, I leave it semi-permanently hooked to a PC and rarely use it to log data in purely hand-held mode. Seems like every time I tried to use it as a remote logger, I pressed the wrong buttons. I even had to remove the batteries a couple of times 'cause I couldn't escape from where I was and it looked like I was getting ready to reset some important stuff on the meter

Fluke 54 Series II
OTOH, the Fluke 54 is fantastic in hand-held mode. Like Ken says, very intuitive. Does exactly what you expect. But it can only store 500 data points (499 actually). And these data can only be transferred to the computer *after* they have been stored on the meter and the measuring is done. So realtime graphical viewing of trends is not possible, nor is capturing a large data set.

The FlukeView Forms software is powerful. It is the same software that supports a wide variety of other Fluke meters. The cable for the 54 is optically coupled with an infrared source that is hiding below the top plate on the meter (which is infrared-transparent). This RS-232 cable comes with a holster that has a friction fit in a recess in the top of the yellow armor case. Software and cable are pretty slick, but very pricey at $160+.

Finally, a minor quibble with the Fluke 54 is that both channels must be set to the same t/c type (can individually select on the Omega). Most of the time, this is not a problem. But I mix T and K probes in my shop all the time, depending on what was cheap when I bought it, or what I salvaged from junk I had lying around. So the ability to individually select T1 and T2 t/c types would be very useful.

Jim

[jesawdy]

Omega HH506RA (Extech 421509)...

The HH506RA software is a little clunky, and the RS-232 link drops data all the time. But it usually recovers nicely, and then continues to march along. The recorded data file can be opened as-is in Excel, and plotted with almost no manipulation. I think the only limitation on data is the size of your hard drive. I have successfully recorded a few hours of temperatures at 1 second intervals.

FYI, I have an Extech 421508 which has no ability to datalog internally, but can be used to datalog tethered to a PC. The software seems plenty good, given the price, FREE to download. (I use the HH506 version from Omega). I haven't seen any issues with dropped data yet, are you using a USB/serial adapter?

I've had similar issues with the meter getting frigged in some weird state. One morning, I found my meter outside, it was locked in some state, I was too lazy to find a screwdriver to remove the battery at that moment; it started beeping for low battery some time early the next AM, and my wife set it on the back porch!

Fluke 54 Series II ...

Finally, a minor quibble with the Fluke 54 is that both channels must be set to the same t/c type (can individually select on the Omega). Most of the time, this is not a problem. But I mix T and K probes in my shop all the time, depending on what was cheap when I bought it, or what I salvaged from junk I had lying around. So the ability to individually select T1 and T2 t/c types would be very useful.

It should be noted the Omega/Extech meters have the ability to mix thermocouples.

Omega also has some new dataloggers that work with a wireless interface and PC... that might be slick, drop the tether/cable and still log to a PC in real time.

[erics]

Another nice meter is the Omega HH806 series (new) which APPEARS to be a potential replacement for the HH506 series. I

http://www.omega.com/toc_asp/fram...&file=HH806&flag=1

Yes, it's about $60 more than the HH506 but has some enhanced features as regards data storage and AC adaptor capability.

[JimG]

FYI, I have an Extech 421508 which has no ability to datalog internally, but can be used to datalog tethered to a PC. The software seems plenty good, given the price, FREE to download. (I use the HH506 version from Omega). I haven't seen any issues with dropped data yet, are you using a USB/serial adapter?

Nope, just an old-fashioned RS-232 9-pin cable. I think I recall Eric reporting some issues with the USB version, so I chose to not "upgrade."

I've had similar issues with the meter getting frigged in some weird state. One morning, I found my meter outside, it was locked in some state, I was too lazy to find a screwdriver to remove the battery at that moment; it started beeping for low battery some time early the next AM, and my wife set it on the back porch!

Reminds of a favorite digital watch I wore for years - until it took exception to being dunked in the Henry's Fork during a float trip. Late that night in the cabin, it started beeping and wouldn't stop. Stuck it in the freezer where it only survived around 5 minutes. RIP.

Jim

[JimG]

Another nice meter is the Omega HH806 series (new) which APPEARS to be a potential replacement for the HH506 series.

Nice. Did you buy one yet, or do I still have a few days?

Jim

[civ]

Hello:

I've been following this thread as I am also sort of shopping for one of these instruments.
The Fluke being absolutely out of the question, I went looking around for something I could acquire locally for a reasonable price/quality ratio and came upon this:



Royton Model 101/104 Datalogger
http://royston-esl.co.uk/100%20specs.htm

One and four channel models available, RS-232 Cable and Window$ software included at ~US$ 145.00 for the single channel version.

Alas, it would seem to be exactly (?) the same as this one, the Tenmars TM512D, made by an OEM manufacturer, :

Tenmars TM-7XX Series Digital Thermometers
http://www.tenmars.com/front/bin/...X-1&Category=12513

One, two, three and four channel models available, RS-232 Cable and Window$ software included. No price quoted at the web site but I'm sure they're are available under other names both in the US and Europe. An email to them with an inquiry may eventually produce a list of shops that carry them.

Hope the info is useful to the group.

Best regards,

CIV

[JimG]

Hi, CIV -

Looks like another good choice. Note that the basic instrument accuracy is 0.7C. Both the Omega/Extech and the Fluke are spec'd at 0.3C.

Depending on your needs, maybe this difference is not significant.

Jim