Fluke vs. Omega Dataloggers for use with Scace thermofilter - Page 2

[cannonfodder]

I have not looked at the web page, but I have seen similar units and almost purchased one. Then I looked closely at the spec and found that it only did type K TC's which makes it useless for use with a Scace or Eric's E61 thermocouple adapter which are both type T.

I just gave in and got the Fluke 54II but I have not broken down and purchased the flukeview software yet. But now having a Scace and Eric's adapter I am logging twice as much data when testing. I have had to hand key over 200 datapoints at a time, which gets old, very fast.

[civ]

Hello:

Looks like another good choice. Note that the basic instrument accuracy is 0.7C.

I've no idea how relevant the difference (being more than 100%) could be.
I'd appreciate it if I could rely on the more knowledgeable out there to enlighten me in this respect.

... looked closely at the spec and found that it only did type K TC's which makes it useless for use with a Scace or Eric's E61 thermocouple adapter which are both type T.

Unless I'm mistaken, both the Royton and the Tenmars (most probably the exact same thing) accept type K, J, E, T, R/S and N thermocouples.

Cheers,
CIV

[JimG]

I've no idea how relevant the difference (being more than 100%) could be.
I'd appreciate it if I could rely on the more knowledgeable out there to enlighten me in this respect.

CIV -

I don't count myself among the truly "more knowledgeable" here on HB, but I'll offer my opinion anyway

If you are measuring boiler temperatures, the difference between 0.3C and 0.7C instrument error is not significant.

If you are measuring brew temperature profiles with a Scace device, then a difference in maximum error of 0.4C would be significant to me.

If you are making your measurements with the instrument at a consistent ambient temperature, you can probably safely input an "offset" correction. Checking measurements in boiling distilled water (after correcting for your altitude) and in a distilled water ice slurry will tell you how much correction you need.

Jim

[cannonfodder]

An addendum to my post about Eric's E61 group adapters, it can be had with other types of thermocouples. But you still need a type T to use a Scace.

[civ]

Hello:

If you are measuring brew temperature profiles with a Scace device, then a difference in maximum error of 0.4C would be significant to me.

I'll keep it in mind and take it into account when I decide about the datalogger to buy.

Checking measurements in boiling distilled water (after correcting for your altitude) and in a distilled water ice slurry will tell you how much correction you need.

Indeed.
This is the method I use (36 years later, M. J. Turvey's teachings paid off ....) to check and calibrate a thermocouple to 0° C / 100° C for my Sanyou TA4 PID.

Thanks for your input.

Cheers,

CIV

[EspressoObsessed]

I might be interested in getting a Scace thermometer if discussions like this didn't scare me so much. I don't anticipate the need to EVER upload my data to a spread sheet. I just want to know what's happening in the PF. Can you break this down into simpler terms: which thermometer would work? I'm ready to buy a Scace and a Fluke or other appropriate alphabet-couple thermometer, but I don't need IR, ports, software, 2 channels, etc.

What's a girl to do?

Thanks
Mary

[Ken Fox]

I might be interested in getting a Scace thermometer if discussions like this didn't scare me so much. I don't anticipate the need to EVER upload my data to a spread sheet. I just want to know what's happening in the PF. Can you break this down into simpler terms: which thermometer would work? I'm ready to buy a Scace and a Fluke or other appropriate alphabet-couple thermometer, but I don't need IR, ports, software, 2 channels, etc.

What's a girl to do?

Thanks
Mary

The numbers go by so fast that you really can't use these things very well to just look at the numbers as the Scace "shots" are made. Many times I have gotten an "impression" from a run of shots that turned out to be incorrect when I looked at the numbers more closely.

You might be able to get enough information for your purposes by simply using the recall function of the datalogger, although I prefer to see it graphically, which is why I plot it out with a PC based program called "Dplot," which is not all that expensive (well less than $50 when I bought it).

It sounds like you might be happy with a Scace and a Fluke 54- one channel datalogger. Since you can get the second channel for minimal added cost, I'd suggest going for that one, which I believe is the 54-II. The Fluke is going to be, far and away, much more pleasant to use, especially if you are going to rely on the recall function rather than exporting the data for use in a graphing or spreadsheet program.

ken

[JimG]

The single channel logging thermometer from Fluke is the 53-II. But I agree that the dual channel 54-II is a better choice.

Best price for 54-II I've seen is Byram Labs, but it was back-ordered last time I checked.

Jim

[Ken Fox]

The single channel logging thermometer from Fluke is the 53-II. But I agree that the dual channel 54-II is a better choice.

Best price for 54-II I've seen is Byram Labs, but it was back-ordered last time I checked.

Jim

http://webtronics.stores.yahoo.net/fluk54dualin.html

these people are slightly more expensive, have it in stock, are Fluke authorized dealers, and if you follow the instructions on the homepage, you can get any of several "free" gifts with orders over $50. I like the set of pliers, if you don't know what to take as the "gift."

ken
p.s. I've placed a whole lot of orders from this company; they ship promptly and give good service

[cannonfodder]

CDW has them for $339. I got my 54-II from them, but it was a little cheaper. Benefit of spending hundreds of thousands a year on computer gear.

Don't even bother with a 51 or 52, I tried it and without the data logging, it is almost useless. You can get a deal on eBay now and then as well.

I got a toy from Espresso Parts a few days ago.

[CyclingCraig]

http://webtronics.stores.yahoo.net/fluk54dualin.html

Could this price be right? for this: http://webtronics.stores.yahoo.net/fluk54dualin.html
(I know NOTHING about thermocouples and Meters, but going from what was said here, this is the one to have?)

If so... I will DEF order one?
-Craig

[Ken Fox]

Could this price be right? for this: http://webtronics.stores.yahoo.net/fluk54dualin.html
(I know NOTHING about thermocouples and Meters, but going from what was said here, this is the one to have?)

If so... I will DEF order one?
-Craig

I bought this item from them in Dec. of 2005, for $296 and change.

They shipped it immediately, and as I said previously, included the free gift of a set of pliers. Make sure you follow the directions on the home page about ordering the "free gift" in order to get it because if you don't order the gift properly, you won't get it.

ken

[cafeIKE]

For day in, day out use subject to the rigors of the real world, nothing beats a Fluke.
For casual home use, an Omega HH506-RA or Extech 421509 will be more than adequate.

They are less than half the money of a comparably featured Fluke and include rudimentary logging software that imports directly into Excel.

Accuracy is very good and consistent.

I recently tested boiling and freezing points with distilled water. Two Extech 421509 varied ±0.1°F between units and channels with the same thermocouple type K. Variation between thermocouple types K and T was also ±0.1°F. Measured temperatures within ±0.1°F.

Boiling point was calculated using http://terraserver-usa.com/ to determine local altitude, the 10 minute data from the weather station at the local college http://www.piercecollege.com/offi...ggernet/quinth.htm and http://www.csgnetwork.com/h2oboilcalc.html.

[CyclingCraig]

Yayyy!

Just ordered my fluke Thermocouple data logger thing the 54-II yesterday. I can't wait to get it and start measuring stuff

I already have Eric's Thermometer adapter installed on the anita, I have to contact him and see what I need to do to swap out the digial thermometer with a thermocouple? Then I can do those cool graphs of that gauge vs the scace

I love getting new gear.

Now the next question is do I get the Scace I or II. I want a pressure test device, but I could get a fluid fill gauge and build a PF myself with parts from hardware store (Like the one in this post) for pretty cheap?

-Craig

[HB]

Now the next question is do I get the Scace I or II. I want a pressure test device, but I could get a fluid fill gauge and build a PF myself...

Greg's thermofilter is used to regulate regional, national, and world barista competition equipment where portability and standard measurement are of paramount importance (i.e., if the competition rules say regulate to x bar, event leaders want to be certain it's the same everywhere, period). If you want to economize, using a stock pressure sensing portafilter, plugging a digital pressure gauge into Eric's E61 adapter, or building your own should satisfy your needs (no comment about the 'want' factor).

[jamver]

Just looking around for other units that could be comparable and I came across the Omega HH147 which looks identical to the Royston unit pictured above.

http://www.omega.com/ppt/pptsc.asp?ref=HH147

Interestingly enough, the Omega page claims a Resolution (accuracy) of 0.1°C/0.1F, 1°C/1°F, although, reading the spec sheet they actually say that it's 0.1% rdg not 0.05% rdg as per the Fluke and HH506RA.

The HH806AU is also spec'd to 0.05% rdg. The A variants of the HH806 also have double the save data and 16 times the logging data capacity.

Has anybody used the 806's yet?

cheers,
James

[erics]

You're getting resolution and accuracy a little mixed up - time to burn some midnight oil with Google.

The 806AU had a software bug and needs Version 1.2 of the SW to communicate properly with the PC. One advantage to the 806AU is the AC adaptor and the software GUI is a little better but still not what it could easily be, given a little programming work.

[jamver]

Thanks Eric!

It's been a while since I've had to think about these things!

[TruthBrew]

Just to throw another thermocouple thermometer into the mix, I just aquired a Cole Parmer Digi-Sense model 91100-50. It sells for $295 on their site, is made in the USA. It's dual channel, logs up to 1000 readings and can output in comma-separated format over IR (has an optional IR-to-RS232 DB9 cable for PC interface).

Details, specs, and manual at:
http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog...ew.asp?sku=9110050

Anyone else used this unit?

[cannonfodder]

Doesn't look to bad, the CSV output would be very nice. I still refuse to spend the money on the fluke software but every time I do some data logging I start thinking real hard about getting it. After you key in a few hundred data points it gets old fast.