A few hints from Heather Perry - Page 2

[Marshall]

Heather reminded me that espresso is an *art* as well as a science. Once you throw all of the extraneous tools away, you step into the realm of art.

Amen.

[Psyd]

Heather reminded me that espresso is an *art* as well as a science. Once you throw all of the extraneous tools away, you step into the realm of art.

Amen.

So, the trick is in identifying and defining 'extraneous'? I wonder what Picasso or Mozart would have thought of that definition of the 'realm of art'.

[Marshall]

So, the trick is in identifying and defining 'extraneous'? I wonder what Picasso or Mozart would have thought of that definition of the 'realm of art'.

They would have heartily agreed. Compare Mozart's music with the heavily ornamented, polyphonic baroque music that preceded it. Picasso could suggest a complete image with just a few lines. And literary critics certainly don't measure books by the pound.

What's your point?

[Psyd]

What's your point?

Art is a communicative device that doesn't have great skill as a pre-requisite. Making espresso (with a few possible exceptions) is great craft. I think that they both would have scoffed at the barista as artist.

[Randii]

So, the trick is in identifying and defining 'extraneous'? I wonder what Picasso or Mozart would have thought of that definition of the 'realm of art'.

Well, I am a professional artist, and I have been drawing and painting since I was 3 years old (child prodigy), so I think I understand a thing or two about art. When Michelangelo was asked how he created his magnificent sculptures, he said that when he looked at the stone, he saw the sculpture locked inside of it. All he had to do was to remove the extraneous pieces to expose the sculpture trapped inside. That is what Heather did for me. The coffee has now become my "sculpture".

And, sorry Psyd, but it takes a lifetime of training to be an artist. It really is a skill, we just make it look easy.

Randii

[Psyd]

Well, I am a professional artist, and I have been drawing and painting since I was 3 years old (child prodigy), so I think I understand a thing or two about art.
And, sorry Psyd, but it takes a lifetime of training to be an artist. It really is a skill, we just make it look easy.

I am a technician and an artist, and quite often I perform both craft and art simultaneously, so the difference between the two is a fairly black and white separation for me.
Hyperbole aside, while there are artists in the coffee world, 99.999% of us do it as a craft.
That' not so bad, though. Artists can be really horrible at their craft and still really artistic, while master craftsmen absolutely must have mad skills.
Heather, by virtue of her national laud and international recognition, is a master in her craft. I am but an apprentice, possibly a beginning journeyman, but neither of us is making much art at the portafilter.

[Randii]

I am a technician and an artist, and quite often I perform both craft and art simultaneously, so the difference between the two is a fairly black and white separation for me.
Hyperbole aside, while there are artists in the coffee world, 99.999% of us do it as a craft.
That' not so bad, though. Artists can be really horrible at their craft and still really artistic, while master craftsmen absolutely must have mad skills.
Heather, by virtue of her national laud and international recognition, is a master in her craft. I am but an apprentice, possibly a beginning journeyman, but neither of us is making much art at the portafilter.

I am a technician too. Good artists need to be both, and good artists do have "mad skills". You have to know what the *rules* are before you can break them. You have to know *how* to play a drum roll before you can play the drums! As far as espresso is concerned, Heather just took my practice pad away. It's time to play the drums. It's time to break the rules. Lets see what happens!

As far as your slam on Heather, I don't think you know her.

[cannonfodder]

I make espresso, everything else is academic.

There are technical Baristas that use every bit of technology available to make a shot. There are artistic Baristas that simply have an intuition about how best to make a shot. But the true artist learns how to leverage both aspects to perfect their art. I bet if you nose around Coffee Klatch, you will find some scales and thermocouples tucked away that they use when dialing in a blend which are later put away once the artist has honed his/her craft.

[Psyd]

I am a technician too. Good artists need to be both, and good artists do have "mad skills".

There are far too many examples of great artists that do not possess great technical skills to be able to support that statement. While I do support learning a craft before attempting art in that medium, it isn't necessary. Granted, the larger percentage of great artists have possessed great skill, that still doesn't make anyone with great skill an artist, nor does it preclude anyone from using a medium that they are not hugely skilled at to communicate or express feelings, emotions, or thoughts. Great skills are required to be a great craftsman, and sometimes great craftsmen make great art, sometimes great art is made by those without great skill.

As far as your slam on Heather, I don't think you know her.

You must have misunderstood something, or I communicated something poorly. I have nothing but respect for Heather and her accomplishments, and never intended to indicate otherwise. If I led anyone to believe that I impugned her or her skills, I apologise.
And you're right, I don't know her. I know only of her reputation and what I've seen on videos. Just from those I already respect her.


Look, skill and mastery of a craft are great (and often overlooked) 'good things' (tm). 'Art' is an oft misunderstood concept, and used colloquially to mean 'really, really good'. I simply pointed out that an artist is someone that uses his craft to communicate. I'm just guessing, mind you, but I suspect that there is no deep message or meaning in Heather's coffee, just remarkable master craft.
I could be wrong.

[javabob]

Psyd- FWIW, I didn't read any slam on your part and your explanation is sound.

[Marshall]

Look, skill and mastery of a craft are great (and often overlooked) 'good things' (tm). 'Art' is an oft misunderstood concept, and used colloquially to mean 'really, really good'.

"Art" has a broad range of meanings that are not exclusive to people engaged in the fine arts. Think of "state of the art" and "prior art" (for patent disputes).

Quibbling about who is entitled to describe their work as an "art" would be like me (a lawyer) complaining every time someone who lacks a professional degree describes his/her occupation as a "profession." I do not lose any sleep over it.

[Randii]

Fascinating how one little word can set off such controversy. This discussion has thrown this post completely off topic, and for that I am truly sorry. It has only hurt the purpose of this post. I will refrain from using the word art on this forum from now on, unless I am talking about my own work, which will be only discussed in "off topic" areas of the forum.

-Randii

[cafeIKE]

Quibbling about who is entitled to describe their work as an "art" would be like me (a lawyer) complaining every time someone who lacks a professional degree describes his/her occupation as a "profession." I do not lose any sleep over it.

Gimme a break :

A profession is an occupation, vocation or career where specialized knowledge of a subject, field, or science is applied.

Lawyers practise!

[Marshall]

Gimme a break :

A profession is an occupation, vocation or career where specialized knowledge of a subject, field, or science is applied.

Lawyers practise!

Exactly my point: both "the arts" and "the professions" have narrow definitions and broad definitions. You happened to choose a definition that renders the word nearly meaningless.

[Psyd]

Exactly my point: both "the arts" and "the professions" have narrow definitions and broad definitions.

I've taken the semantic discussion to private. Lets talk about coffee. I'm sorry I side tracked us all.
Regardless of how we feel (or should that be irregardless? ; >) about Marshall's usage of the English language, we all know that he is fluent in coffee. Let's all speak coffee. To start things off:
There has been a lot of talk about how to treat a puck before pulling a shot through it. I probably do quite a few things at my house that I wouldn't do in a pro environment, and a good half of them don't make any difference at all, or there are ways around them. I do them because most of my coffee satisfaction comes from the process. I enjoy making it a ritual, and enjoy the ritual itself. Some of the things I do will make my coffee better, but doing those things the same all the time insures that my pulls will be consistent.
There are (at my last count) 1,347 different things you can do with a portafilter, including the Stockfleth Move and the WDT, and all but about three of them are really important to making decent espresso. The rest are, at very least, comforting ritual to remind those of us that haven't committed everything to muscle memory just yet, and at very best, taking the puck to that last 10%.
Those that insist that their way is the one true way have taken something as vibrant as espresso and reduced it to the mundanity of religious repetition. Acts of faith based on faith.
Those that insist that they don't do anything might have unattended maternal issues, and don't realize the advantage of having a comforting ritual as part of a functioning mechanical process.
There, that ought to keep you off the simple semantics for a bit! Again, sorry I took us there.

[Marshall]

One of the wisest pieces of advice my favorite high school English teacher gave us was to "be neither the first, nor the last, in matters of usage." Language is truly a living thing, and I expect meanings to shift throughout my life. Anyone who expects to fix a definition at some arbitrary point in history and not accept any further development will first sound like a pedant, later a crank and finally, when the English-speaking world has left him or her completely behind, a fool.

My daughter has used words in ways that I never heard 20 years ago. "Sketchy" for "dangerous." "Awesome" for "somewhat above average." She outgrew "awesome," but still uses "sketchy." I don't correct her (any more!). I understand they are changes in the language.

"Fine art," "the arts," "the art of" all use "art" in different ways, and we understand the intended meaning from the context. No one claims that, by virtue of being a barista champion, anyone deserves a display at the Louvre. But it is perfectly reasonable in current usage to talk about "latte art" and the "artistry" of a barista. Frankly, I think this would also have been a proper usage 100 years ago.

[CoffeeOwl]

Marshall, thanks for the links to the cups with donation for CoffeeKids. I love them and I'll get a set... well, frankly to drink espressos from them. It's just my style.
Pawel

[Marshall]

Marshall, thanks for the links to the cups with donation for CoffeeKids. I love them and I'll get a set... well, frankly to drink espressos from them. It's just my style.
Pawel

Lodz? Were you in that cover story in Barista Magazine, Pawel?

[TimEggers]

Marshall,

I am curious from your viewing of Heather's technique, is much coffee discarded when dosing and distributing? When I apply the techniques you mention in the original post I tend to have coffee fall over the edge of the portafilter plus I level and lose even more. Something I attribute to my lack of real skill indeed, how does Heather do?

Any other general tips you can offer, I must admit this simple approach has been working for me (but I still need practice).

Thanks again for sharing.

[Marshall]

Marshall,

I am curious from your viewing of Heather's technique, is much coffee discarded when dosing and distributing? When I apply the techniques you mention in the original post I tend to have coffee fall over the edge of the portafilter plus I level and lose even more. Something I attribute to my lack of real skill indeed, how does Heather do?

Any other general tips you can offer, I must admit this simple approach has been working for me (but I still need practice).

Thanks again for sharing.

In demonstrations professionals tend to waste a great deal of coffee, because they are working very quickly while talking to their audience. Home baristas can be a lot more economical. I have found that the Mazzer doser's well-known tendency to shoot to the left can be mostly avoided by slowing down a bit on the doser pulls and shifting the position of the portafilter. If you're making loud clicks, you're probably hitting the lever too hard, which produces the overshoots.

I waste less than a tablespoon a week this way. The pros waste more than that in five minutes.