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Expobar Office Lever will not get hot

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Link to "Expobar Office Lever will not get hot"by number9 on Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:43 pm

Hello all, I have an Expobar office lever (about 3 months old) and I have a problem that perhaps someone has seen before...

Note: I have had problems with this machine since day one (leaks, extreme warm up times, sometimes ice cold for 2 hours, etc)...

Now however, the machine refuses to warm up. As an aside, I am technically inclined and I am in fact an electronics tech, but I have yet to dismantle it fully and check the control box... I am wondering if perhaps it is something simple, or I missed something, or I just plain do not know enough about this machine (which I really do not)...

So, in a nutshell, you turn it on, the power light comes on and the "heater" light comes on. It does not however, pump water into the boiler as it does normally when you first turn it on. It just sits there quietly. If you lift the lever, it will pump water, and water will come out of the grouphead, but of course the steam wand and water wand will not produce anything. If you let it sit there it will sit, quietly, with the power light and heater light on. It will not get hot. I did not check the heater voltage with the unit on yet. Am I missing something I should check? Could this not be an electrical problem, but could it be a "plumbing" problem?

Any assistance or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.
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Link to "Expobar Office Lever will not get hot"by HB on Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:18 am

I don't remember if the Expobar has a resettable high-temperature switch (red button) or fuse, but that's what I would check first.
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Link to "Expobar Office Lever will not get hot"by number9 on Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:31 am

HB wrote:I don't remember if the Expobar has a resettable high-temperature switch (red button) or fuse, but that's what I would check first.


It does actually appear to have one, albeit tiny... it does not seem to be tripped, and of course, I pushed on it just in case with the machine unplugged. That was not it. Good to know it is there, however :)
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Link to "Expobar Office Lever will not get hot"by another_jim on Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:50 am

You'll need to do continuity checks on the pstat contacts (probably OK given the heating light), the heating element itself, and check if there's an SSR on the circuit. If there is, it shouldn't be dropping more than 1 or 2 volts across the power side when its on; if it's reading a full 110, or a large voltage, it's dead.
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Link to "Expobar Office Lever will not get hot"by jrtatl on Fri Feb 17, 2006 7:31 am

false pressure at warmup? check your vacuum breaker valve.

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Link to "Expobar Office Lever will not get hot"by number9 on Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:04 am

I do not see an SSR on this guy, unless it is inside the control box, but it is too small to house an SSR in my opinion. I have checked static continuity on everything I can so far. Not sure yet if they are all ok with voltage on them (I have seen things like that before, where a no voltage condition reads ok, but after voltage is applied it breaks)...

I am not sure where the vacuum breaker valve is, or how I would go about checking that guy.

Hrmmm.
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Link to "Expobar Office Lever will not get hot"by cannonfodder on Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:55 pm

Did you get it new or used? If used, when was it descaled last?
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Link to "Expobar Office Lever will not get hot"by number9 on Fri Feb 17, 2006 6:39 pm

cannonfodder wrote:Did you get it new or used? If used, when was it descaled last?


I purchased it brand new right at 3 months ago. I backflush with cleaner once every 5-6 weeks, and I did it about 1.5 weeks before it stopped working fully.
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Link to "Expobar Office Lever will not get hot"by number9 on Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:18 am

Another question... to make a long story short, I had a Silvia for a few years and for the most part, it "barely" works... this is why after speaking with the people where I purchased the Silvia, I went to the Expobar (we make a lot of coffee at the house)... well, since my expobars demise, and subsequent complete lack of help from the company I purchased it
from, (and the fact that I really think the control module is at fault, and no one seems to have a replacement anywhere) I am using the Silvia again after much gnashing of teeth and beating of the valves.

Again, the silvia can die on me at any time, and is really not putting out good coffee (it needs a new pump, new 3-way, and more than not a whole slew of other things)... So my question is, if I were to take the Expobar out in the back yard and shoot it, what would you guys/gals recommend as a replacement unit? I will try to off something on fleabay or something to purchase a new machine, but I have pretty much had it with the expobar, and no one wants to fix it without a 4-6 week wait, or tons of cash, and shipping both ways is a real issue for a "we might be able to fix it".

I have gone around the net and read reviews, but I would rather hear them from real live users on a forum... most of the reviews google pulls up are from companies, and looking back on where that got me last time, I would rather not listen to a salesman's suggestions...

Thanks.
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Link to "Expobar Office Lever will not get hot"by Balthazar_B on Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:48 am

I've never owned any model of an Expobar, so take these comments for what they're worth.

By all accounts, the Expobar should be capable of turning out very good espresso, given good inputs (coffee, grind quality, barista skills). I haven't seen too many reports of reliability problems with Expobars, but of course even Porsche turns out a lemon from time to time. The first thing I think you should try is to get the retailer to work with you to resolve the problem (I assume there's a warranty in place, in which case they should either fix or replace your unit). I understand that it can be difficult to keep trying once you feel you're not being listened to, but that's really the best way to go at this stage, I think.

If that fails, you could try getting in touch with a good machine repair facility (don't know where you're located, but you can probably find one in many of the large metro areas). If you can't get recommendations on this board, it wouldn't hurt to check out references for anyone you're considering.

Finally, if you're committed to replacing your machine, I can recommend the QuickMill Vetrano, which I own. It's really a spectacular machine for the price, requires plumbing in (this is a GOOD thing) because of its rotary pump, and perhaps best of all (if reputation is to be believed), Chris Coffee sells them. I haven't had occasion to need after-sales support/service, but by all accounts Chris Nachtrieb takes care of his customers as well or better than anyone in the business.

You'll get plenty of other recommendations, so I'd recommend talking about what you're looking for in a machine (how many drinks you turn out in a day, whether or not you make milk-enhanced drinks, your budget, etc.) to help focus the conversation.

Whatever you do, I hope it works out. Good coffee is worth the effort, IMHO.
- John
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Link to "Expobar Office Lever will not get hot"by number9 on Sat Feb 18, 2006 12:22 pm

Balthazar_B, good points, I suppose I should have pointed out a few things:

1) I have tried repeatedly to get my retailer to fix this error to no avail (otherwise I would not have opened the machine and started poking around, thus voiding the warranty by unscrewing the back, which of course they told me voided the warranty after I opened it on their recommendation to take a look around and make sure nothing came undone... does that give you an idea of the kind-hearted people I purchased this from?) As an aside, yes I am upset at them now... I have spent thousands in the last year alone on coffee/cleaning supplies/etc from them, and now I get the shaft. I am through playing with them, and would much rather give my cash to someone else now.

2) I live out in the middle of no-where. I am not near a metro area, and I have spoken to a few coffee/espresso lovers around here that claim there is no repair place in the state. I had to order my machine from 1/2 way across the country.

3) We make a lot of coffee... I would say 5-15 shots/day M-F, and probably 2-3 times a week and on weekends, that number goes to anywhere from 10-30 depending on how many friends/relatives/neighbors come by for a visit. That may not be a lot to people on this forum, but Silvia could not take that kind of work out, it seems.

Note: we make espresso drinks only, no drip coffee... 90% of the time lattes and cappuccinos. The remaining 10% would be straight shots or americanos.

4) To make matters a little worse, we are of very modest means... it took a while to save/pay for the Expobar, and perhaps that is where a bit of my anger at it comes from for it failing so early, and then me getting little/no help from my retailer. I am typically one to keep a calm head about all of this, and on the scope of life, hey it does not matter, but having good espresso to drink in the house does matter.

I did take a peek at the rotary machine you mentioned at Chris's yesterday or the day before... interesting. It sort of scares me that a lot of those machines look just like the expobar I have, but I am assuming that is due to the fact that the groupheads are all the same and so this kindof forces the layout to be the same and therefore have the same looks. That does not really scare me as much as seeing the control box in the machine... the same make (and model? not sure) as mine. I called Chris's to ask about the control unit they use, and see if they have reliability issues or ask if they have a replacement I could purchase. I called twice, left voicemail twice (over the last week) they still have not called me back yet. That is very odd, everything I read says those guys are wonderful to work with... This is adding a little to my frustration. We need coffee.. :(
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Expobar kaput ...

Link to "Expobar Office Lever will not get hot"by Dr Jim on Sat Feb 18, 2006 3:14 pm

Hmmm ...

I wonder if the control box believes that your pour-over tank is out of water?

This was a fairly common issue on some Isomacs, and on the Giemme control box can be tested by jumping pin 7 (sensor) to pin 12 (ground) which tells the controller that the tank is full.

There's a picture of a Giemme controller here:

http://homepage.mac.com/etorres/junior_espresso/Personal5.html

Click on the control box for a better look

Good luck!

Jim
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Link to "Expobar Office Lever will not get hot"by chris on Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:28 pm

Last week I got voice messages from no less that 10 people that when I called back there was either no answer on the phone, it simply rang and rang. Others I got voice mail. I am sorry if I was unable to reach you but I assure you I tried if you left ME a voice mail. If you left it with one of my staff I can't say for sure. I would call you right now but I have no idea who you are or how to contact you. Your profile here gives no info, no name and no email address. I have been in the office all morning and will be here for at least two more hours. If you email me with a number I can reach you at I will be happy to call you. I read my email all weekend. chris@chriscoffee.com
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Link to "Expobar Office Lever will not get hot"by HB on Sat Feb 18, 2006 6:21 pm

chriscoffee wrote:Your profile here gives no info, no name and no email address.

Thanks for jumping in Chris.

FYI, HB members have the choice of using the board's private messaging or allowing others to e-mail them by way of the board:

Image (shown below their post)

For example, clicking number9's e-mail button would open the "Send an e-mail message" window. The board's private messaging allows members to exchange messages using an HB inbox without revealing their e-mails to each other. The board's e-mail access allows you to e-mail another member by filling out the message form, and if they so choose, the receiver can reply directly via e-mail (i.e., there's no longer a need for the board's involvement).

This is a long-winded way of saying that phpBB allows forum members to communicate privately without compromising their e-mail addresses, if they so choose.
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Link to "Expobar Office Lever will not get hot"by number9 on Sat Feb 18, 2006 6:27 pm

Ok espresso people, we have found the bad part.

It is the heating element.

Now, onto a serious topic... service.

I will just be frank, I purchased this machine from WLL. I called when it stopped working, they gave me a trouble ticket and told me someone would call in 3-4 business days. No one called. I called again, same thing, and no one called. This was after they told me I could not send it back until someone called first, and that if I did need to send it back, it would be 4-6 weeks until they could look at it.

Ok, so today, Chris's posts the above msg, and then about an hour ago, I get a phone call from him. He helped me diagnose the expobar further and finally get to the real problem. I want to point out something huge here: I have never purchased anything from Chris's Coffee. I have never talked to this guy before. But he will call me, on his dime, on a Saturday to talk to me about what could be wrong with a machine that he did not even sell to me. After we found the real culprit, I call WLL to find out about a parts replacement. I received the same treatment from them as before...they gave me a ticket number and told me that someone will call me next week. I asked about just getting the heating element, they then told me that they do not give out parts and that I would have to send it in. Of course the 4-6 week wait still holds on that (I asked)...

So, two things: new espresso machines for me are coming from one place, and one place only: Chris's Coffee. Second, does anyone know if there is another company that makes a replacement heater for a Expobar Office Lever? Chris said he was not 100% if the ones he had would fit (same thread, etc) and at this point a 4-6 week wait and shipping both ways on a 60lb machine 1/2 way across the country does not sound appetising.

Thanks again to everyone's help, and a major thanks to Chris. It reminds you that service is not what you get when you first call for a machine, or how easy the website is to navigate, it is when your machine is busted, you really want coffee and how quickly can you get help or advice.
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Link to "Expobar Office Lever will not get hot"by wmfamily on Sat Feb 18, 2006 9:15 pm

Sorry to hear of your troubles but glad to hear that Chris is still one of the best.

I hope you get your machine back into service soon.

John
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Link to "Expobar Office Lever will not get hot"by jrtatl on Sat Feb 18, 2006 9:28 pm

number9 wrote:does anyone know if there is another company that makes a replacement heater for a Expobar Office Lever? Chris said he was not 100% if the ones he had would fit (same thread, etc) and at this point a 4-6 week wait and shipping both ways on a 60lb machine 1/2 way across the country does not sound appetising.


I don't know if anyone else "makes" the heating element, but I do know that WLL can get you one in short order if you are willing to pay for it. My heating element went out last year, and WLL had the best price, and fastest shipping on it. I know they should probably replace it for free since you bought the machine from them, but if you REALLY need coffee, then maybe you are willing to pay for it. IIRC, i think it was about $69 dollars, including shipping.
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Link to "Expobar Office Lever will not get hot"by number9 on Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:11 pm

jrtatl wrote:I don't know if anyone else "makes" the heating element, but I do know that WLL can get you one in short order if you are willing to pay for it. My heating element went out last year, and WLL had the best price, and fastest shipping on it. I know they should probably replace it for free since you bought the machine from them, but if you REALLY need coffee, then maybe you are willing to pay for it. IIRC, i think it was about $69 dollars, including shipping.


Well, that would be nice, but I think I need to be more forceful, or talk to the right person. I called today, told them of my broken Expobar, which I purchased from them 3 months ago, and told them I needed a new heating element pronto. The person on the phone told me, in no uncertain terms, that they could not send out parts and that I would have to send it in, and that I could not send it in until I spoke with a tech about it. I am hoping that Monday, or Tuesday or Wed, or Thur someone will call and I can coerce them into sending me an element.

I can honestly say though, I have had nothing but grief when dealing with WLL. Even today when I called, the lady told me "oh I see your trouble tickets in the system, but no one called you".. I was on the other end of the phone saying "ok, you have my trouble tickets in the system, it's been 3 weeks, no one has called, but you can look right there and see that I called twice already to open a trouble ticket?"

Incredible. Nay, inexcusable.

I hope they can redeem themselves somehow, but if history is any indication, I doubt it. Again, I am not venting here, I am trying to let this be a warning to others: I have had the same response with them with my other espresso machine, which I purchased from them also. It is still broken, and they still have not helped me out with the first one. Yes, I should have learned the first time.
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Link to "Expobar Office Lever will not get hot"by rindfest on Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:35 pm

someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that Todd Salzman is the guy to speak to at WLL

hope that helps
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Link to "Expobar Office Lever will not get hot"by cannonfodder on Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:49 pm

A bit of searching and I found these folks, they carry parts for almost everything. The link below will take you to their parts page, go to the E's and select Expobar. Does that help?

http://www.sreweb.com/careri.htm

Aabree coffee also sells Expobar, you could try them as well.

http://www.aabreecoffee.com
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