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Espressos don't have ideal dark/reddish tone

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Link to "Espressos don't have ideal dark/reddish tone"by giffsa on Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:58 pm

So, i've been working with a pavoni pro for about 3 months now, and i'm finally seeing some real progress - i'm getting consistently good shots (other than the first pull - sucks every time...), loads of crema, good even extraction (thank you, naked portafilter). Good tasting, good looking shots. However, i'm not getting quite the right color - i look at clips/pics of really high quality shots, and i'm not quite getting that really dark/reddish tone that i see in these pics. I'm not getting light shots, and i generally kill the shot before blonding becomes an issue, but i just can't seem to get that really awesome looking red hue that i see others getting...

Any ideas? I'm usually grinding around 5 - 6 clicks above 0 on the rocky, and if i go much lower i choke the machine... likewise if i tamp much harder than i am.

Is it the coffee? Do some blends produce different colors? I usually use black cat, but have experimented with other intelligentsia blends, as well as the espresso blends from Joes the art of coffee, my local.

I'm not unhappy with what i'm producing - but i know it can be better... somehow....
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Link to "Espressos don't have ideal dark/reddish tone"by HB on Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:35 pm

giffsa wrote:Is it the coffee? Do some blends produce different colors? I usually use black cat, but have experimented with other intelligentsia blends, as well as the espresso blends from Joes the art of coffee, my local.

I don't put much weight on crema color per se, but I've noticed some blends favor reddish hues more than others. For example, Yemen pours look gorgeous and frequently taste just as good (alas it has been many months since I've had a bag of Yemen). Rather than focusing on the look, what about the taste would you want to improve?
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Link to "Espressos don't have ideal dark/reddish tone"by giffsa on Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:41 pm

True, it makes more sense to focus on the taste than the color... but they look so damn good!

No, it's a fair point you make. In terms of taste, they're pretty good, although i prefer a less acidic-style than i am generally getting at the moment, i confess. I actually think i want to improve mouthfeel most of all - occasionally i hit a shot that is so smooth and buttery it's amazing.. and then i can't replicate it for another week :)

which blends in your experience tend toward a smoother/richer mouthfeel?
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Link to "Espressos don't have ideal dark/reddish tone"by HB on Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:12 pm

giffsa wrote:No, it's a fair point you make. In terms of taste, they're pretty good, although i prefer a less acidic-style than i am generally getting at the moment, i confess.

Raising the brew temperature is the stock answer for reducing acidity, or choosing blends / roasts with lower acidity. In roaster-speak, blend descriptions with low acidity will favor words related to chocolate/nuts/roast notes and downplay anything alluding to fruits.

giffsa wrote:which blends in your experience tend toward a smoother/richer mouthfeel?

To emphasize body / viscosity, I updose and pull ristrettos at a +70% brewing ratio rather than seeking out a specific blend. You may want to experiment with triple baskets for maximizing mouthfeel. Admittedly I have not used them for a couple years, instead focusing on the taste profile (i.e., searching for the ideal balance of sweet and bitter, akin to a confectionery's liqueur-filled ganache).
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Link to "Espressos don't have ideal dark/reddish tone"by giffsa on Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:22 pm

HB wrote:Raising the brew temperature is the stock answer for reducing acidity,


How do i do this on a Pavoni machine? It's interesting that you say this - I have actually thought in the past that the shots i was pulling could benefit from a slightly higher brew temperature.
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Link to "Espressos don't have ideal dark/reddish tone"by HB on Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:32 pm

Temperature control with lever machines -- like the La Pavoni Europiccola -- that use the grouphead as a heat sink require timing. From the time the machine starts, it's brew temperature is slowly meandering upward; it moves up more quickly with each extraction.

There are many how-tos and suggestions on the Pavoni in the Lever Espresso Machines forum (e.g., La Pavoni in the hands of pros, Elektra/Pavoni side-by-side, etc.). The short answer is to your question: Raise the brew temperature by preheating the grouphead more. Short up/down lever strokes will pull water from the boiler into the group and back, warming the grouphead each time. When it feels right, lock and load. It's a Zen thing.
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Link to "Espressos don't have ideal dark/reddish tone"by IMAWriter on Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:47 pm

HB wrote:Temperature control with lever machines -- like the La Pavoni Europiccola -- that use the grouphead as a heat sink require timing. From the time the machine starts, it's brew temperature is slowly meandering upward; it moves up more quickly with each extraction.

There are many how-tos and suggestions on the Pavoni in the Lever Espresso Machines forum (e.g., La Pavoni in the hands of pros, Elektra/Pavoni side-by-side, etc.). The short answer is to your question: Raise the brew temperature by preheating the grouphead more. Short up/down lever strokes will pull water from the boiler into the group and back, warming the grouphead each time. When it feels right, lock and load. It's a Zen thing.

Boy, do you hat THAT right...especially the Zen part :lol:
BTW, I've found Espresso Dolce http://www.espressovivace.com to have a bit of that reddish hue our OP is seeking....I think Ambrosia did as well.


Edit...Black Pearl, from http://www.chriscoffee.com also had the red-ish thing...
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Link to "Espressos don't have ideal dark/reddish tone"by CafSuperCharged on Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:38 am

With respect and recognition of the other replies, I would add that Italian espresso blends have a significant fraction of Robusta beans. (The coffee plants whose berry seeds we consume are either arabica or robusta.)
My experience is pure arabica (single-origin or blended) espresso coffees have less darker reddish tones and less long lasting crema.
In the Italian roasting tradition I believe one of the secrets of the trade is the ability to source a robusta and blend it in in a way that attracts customers. Robusta is generally considered inferior, however I am led to believe some harvests may have excellent qualities and may even be expensive.

Like the others say: blend and temperature, however you might have difficulties with a 100% arabica blend in accomplishing the "tiger skin" (I was told in Italy, espresso should trickle into the cup like a "mouse tail" and paint a "tiger skin".)

Regards
Peter
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Link to "Espressos don't have ideal dark/reddish tone"by giffsa on Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:13 am

espresso should trickle into the cup like a "mouse tail"


What a great description!
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Link to "Espressos don't have ideal dark/reddish tone"by CafSuperCharged on Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:47 am

giffsa wrote:What a great description!

Yes, Sam, brilliant.
Not my IPr, as implied, but Italian folk lore.
A picture paints a thousand words - and these few words paint the picture.

Regards
Peter
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