Eliminating noise from vibration - Page 2

[Beezer]

Well, I tried not to cover any vent holes on the bottom of the case, but I guess I might have covered something up by accident. I put most of the Dynamat on the forward underside of the case, under the drip tray. Then I put a small piece directly under the pump itself, hoping to kill vibrations at the source. I don't think there are any holes there, but maybe I need to double check.

I'm thinking that sink protector on the top might be blocking too many of the air holes, causing heat to build up inside. I might take it off, or least trim it down so it doesn't block as many holes.

I am enjoying having a quieter machine, but if it results in a burnt out pump, it's not worth it.

[mhoy]

Beezer, I too have an Anita that I'd like to quiet down. So I'd be very happy to help you succeed.

So perhaps I can help you out with a comparision to a non-modified system. I can find my temp probe and I can measure some of the temperature readings from inside the case in a couple of places if you like.

Mark

[Beezer]

Thanks for the offer. Unfortunately, I don't have a temp probe to do measurements on my machine. If you don't mind, though, you could take a look under your Anita and confirm that there aren't any air holes on the bottom. I'm pretty sure I didn't cover any holes, but now I'm starting to wonder. I could take off the Dynamat, but then I probably wouldn't be able to reattach it if it turns out there aren't any holes. I can post a pic of the underside of my machine if you need to see where I placed the Dynamat.

[Beezer]

After pulling some more shots with the newly sound insulated Anita, I've realized that the pump didn't turn off the other day in the middle of pulling a shot. Actually, I think what happened was that it was so quiet, I didn't hear it and thought it was off.

Pulling shots last night and this morning, I found that the pump starts out somewhat noisy, then goes almost completely silent when it goes to full pressure. Sometimes the OPV opens, which makes a comparatively loud chirping noise, but if the OPV isn't open then there's virtually no sound at all. Amazing. I had no idea a vibe pump could be that quiet. Now if I could just get the OPV to stop making that annoying chirping sound, the machine would be almost totally silent under full pressure. Maybe later I'll post a video with sound so you can appreciate how quiet the machine really is.

Oddly enough, the pump is still pretty noisy when the boiler autofill kicks in. I've noticed before that the autofill is always much louder than the sound the pump makes when it's pulling a shot. Not sure why that should be the case or what to do about it. Still, it's nice to reduce the noise as much as I have so far.

The bottom line seems to be that $15 of Dynamat sound insulation and a $7 sink protector plus some electrical tape can actually make a real difference in the sound level from a vibe pump machine. Amazing.

[mhoy]

After pulling some more shots with the newly sound insulated Anita, I've realized that the pump didn't turn off the other day in the middle of pulling a shot. Actually, I think what happened was that it was so quiet, I didn't hear it and thought it was off.
...
The bottom line seems to be that $15 of Dynamat sound insulation and a $7 sink protector plus some electrical tape can actually make a real difference in the sound level from a vibe pump machine. Amazing.

OK, I so want to do this. Posted pictures would be great. Did you use any particular version/kind of Dynamat or does it only come in one type?

BTW: I didn't see any obvious holes in the bottom for ventilation.
-=-=
Mark

[Beezer]

Mark, I used the Dynamat for car doors. It's a pack with two 10" X 10" pieces. I got it from Amazon for about $15. Here's a link to the product.

http://www.amazon.com/Dynamat-10415-Xtreme-Speaker-Sheets/dp/B00020CATC/ref=pd_bbs_sr_6?ie=UTF8&s=automotive&qid=1204240048&sr=8-6

I basically just cut the two big pieces into a bunch of smaller pieces, then stuck them to all of the large metal surfaces I could access. I put two fairly big pieces on each side of the main shell, as well as the back of the shell (on the inside of the case of course). I also stuck a couple of pieces on the underside of the case under the drip tray and directly under the pump. I even put a couple of pieces on the metal plate that covers the boiler, near where the water reservoir goes. I tried to avoid covering any vent holes or making any kind of contact with electrical wires or components.

Finally, I took a plastic sink protector like the one Dave mentioned earlier in this thread and put it on the top of the warming tray. I also put some electrical tape on the bottom of the cup tray, where it meets the main case. I cut some pieces out of the sink protector to get better ventilation. Try to place it so that it doesn't block too many of the vent holes on the cup tray.

I'll try to take some pictures soon, maybe this weekend. I'll also do a video to demonstrate the sound reduction.

Legal disclaimer: It goes without saying that you do this mod at your own risk, and I can't warrant against any harm this might cause to your machine or to you. I'm not responsible for anything bad that might happen to you or your machine if you do this. Be careful! Do any work on the machine with the power cable unplugged.

[jamoke]

vibrations

Join the LMWDP, and all your vibration problems will be solved! ( well, those pertaining to your espresso machine, anyway)

[mhoy]

vibrations

Join the LMWDP, and all your vibration problems will be solved! ( well, those pertaining to your espresso machine, anyway)

OK, I'm too dense I don't get it....help for old non-texting generation appreciated.

[pauljolly65]

I was experiencing some wicked vibe noise from my Vibiemme Domobar, and finally decided (after ascertaining that the noise was coming from inside the machine) to take off the outer cover and investigate. Lo and behold, the noise was coming from the brew pressure gauge, just as several VBM owners had ID'd in the Domobar Buyer's Guide thread. Two slivers of cardboard slipped between the gauge and the steel faceplate and the problem is solved. I swear, my jaw fell to my knees when I realized just how quiet the machine is when the rattling stops.

So I guess the lesson is that identifying just what it is that's rattling can go a long way toward quieting a vibe pump machine...and it cost nothing and only took 20 minutes total.

Cheers,
Paul

[rodnovca]

OK, I'm too dense I don't get it....help for old non-texting generation appreciated.

LMWDP = Lever Machine World Domination Plot

[mhoy]

Just finished up with the Dynamat. I got 4 square feet for about $30 at Frys, I ended up using about 3 sq ft of it.

Removed the shell.
Removed the thinner steel bent sheet that holds up the water container.
Detatched the black brain box for easier access.

Someone prior to me used what looks to be the anti-skid stuff used under a rug in a couple of places, I'll re-use it.

Lined the thinner steel shell that holds up the water container, keep a space on the bottom for the re-insertion into the bottom clamp.


Lined the sides that are part of the front.


Lined most of the bottom of the machine using numerous smaller pieces, didn't get too close to the access hole and the brass that hold up the boiler.

[mhoy]

Also did the following.

Lined the back part of the heavy stainless steel shell of the machine.


Put small 3/8" felt pads on various parts of the water tank to make it fit a bit more snug. Note: Beware of shimming the magnetic float too far from the sensor or your heater will not turn on.


The helpers found this most amusing.


The entire assembly sound much less tinny and more solid. The water holder doesn't vibrate at all.

To Do:
Still need to add padding to the top cover and drip tray area.

The pump itself is still noisier than I would like and I'm not sure how to make it quieter since it's already in a mount.

Thanks to all in the forum for their patience and help.
Mark

[mhoy]

Beezer, when I was looking at my Anita, I figured there was plenty of air flow from the 1/16 space around the sides. I also see that our Anita's have insulation on the boiler (at least the sides, not the top/bottom) so it's cooler in there than in some of the other machines to start with. If this turns out to not be the case we could open up the hole that allows easy access to the heating element for additional cooling.

Mark

[dsc]

Hi,

just out of curiosity I disassembled my Andreja and took the pump out. I held it in my hands while it was working and I have to say it's a real noisy bugger. I thought that it's much more quiet when it's held firmly and that the noise is coming from something within the case, but it's not. Now I know that it was stated a lot of time before, that a vibe pump isn't really that noisy, it's simply the vibration carried over to the case, but I can't agree with that. I started thinking that maybe something is wrong with the pump and decided to disassemble but that's damn impossible. Well at least I can't see any screws because there's a small metal frame around the pump (CEME 47W).

So at the moment I'm a bit confused.

Cheers,
dsc.

[Beezer]

Wow, Mark, you did a much more thorough job of insulating your machine than I did. I put some damping material on the inside of the main shell, some more on the bottom, and some on the back of the piece of sheet metal that covers the boiler, but that's about it. It's definitely quieter, but there's a fair bit of noise when the pump first starts. Once it's up to full pressure, it quiets down a lot. Then the OPV opens and makes a loud chirping noise that drowns out the pump.

Here's a video of my machine running.

[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=NT1RTY98lRA[/youtube]

You can easily hear when the OPV opens it starts squeaking. Very annoying.

I've heard that some vibe pumps are noisier than others. I wonder if you could replace the stock pump with a different brand if it really bothers you that much.

[Beezer]

For some reason the youtube link doesn't seem to be appearing as a video here. Anyway, you can copy and paste the link and watch it that way. Sorry about that.

[Ozark_61]

Wow - Dave, good point. You know I've blown 2 gicar controllers now in my giotto. I had insulated the boiler with the fiberglassy stuff. Both times the sticker side of the controller was blackened... I've pulled the insulation out since putting the new controller in, but I bet you're right.

Geoff

Could be. Did you cover any of the vents in the bottom of the machine?

I once read that manufacturers do not insulate their boilers because the reduced heat slows the natural convection of air in the machine. As the heat from the boiler rises out the cup warmer, cool air is drawn in through the bottom vents keeping a constant supply of cool air drawing up over the electronics. That is another reason you should not cover the cup warmer cover with something like a towel. I did not completely buy into it, but maybe the effect is more dramatic than I thought. If you have a wire thermocouple, you could put it under the pump and snake it out the bottom vent to get an idea of how hot it is getting inside the case.

[Ozark_61]

They replaced the motor mounts and it's now one of the quietest espresso machines around.

Dan - Since you've looked under the skirt of many 'o machine, are the motor mounts standard? If so, I might give my old ulka pump a new hand to hold on to.

[mhoy]

Beezer, I'll listen to your video again just before pulling a shot and compare.

My current thinking is that the stiff plastic hose that comes off the vibe pump is too long and it might be causing the pump not to be able to vibrate properly in it's mounting bracket. The tubing kind of pushed against the back of the case with a bit of padding shielding it. I'm not quite ready to open up any plumbing as nothing leaks at this point and I don't any replacement hose should something go wrong. I'll try and extract a better picture tonight to show this as a comparision point for the rest of you to examine/comment upon.

I also placed some dynamat on one side of the gicar, hope I don't regret it.

Mark

[laservet]

Dan - Since you've looked under the skirt of many 'o machine, are the motor mounts standard? If so, I might give my old ulka pump a new hand to hold on to.

Sorbothane is an excellent product for vibration isolation and vibration dampening.

http://www.sorbothane.com/