Eliane (=Amica/Zaffiro) vs. Silvia test

[russell]

As part of the testing associated with my recent post on how much coffee to put in a double basket and avoiding gushers, I finally did the side-by-side test of the PIDed Eliane versus the PIDed Silvia. Or at least it's the first test: consistency will also be important, as will warmup time, etc.

Silvia on one counter, Quickmill Eliane (equals Isomac Zaffiro, Amica--all single boiler machines with E61 groupheads) on the other. Both PIDed set to 228 F. Pressure on both reduced to 9.5. A little over 30 minutes warmup on each. 17 grams Black Cat group 7.5 over true zero on Rocky in each PF basket. 40 lbs (est.), 180 degree tamp + finish. Warmed cups. First draw, the Eliane, 27 seconds. Very good, no gusher. Second draw, 2 minutes later, Silvia, 27 seconds, with switch on for about 2 seconds then off then back on to attempt preinfusion. Very good, no gusher. But note: both pucks showed the imprint of the central filter screen screw and the Silvia's was at least a mm deep. (the screw sticks out more)

Taste: tasted alternately to avoid memory problems. A virtual tie, but maybe a little softer flavor for the Eliane. Both very good. I'll have to repeat this test with friends and many times to test for consistency.

Note: I carefully dried both baskets before adding coffee and was very careful with the tamping.

Second note: I have suspected that with a PID much of the advantage of the E61 machines was eliminated. The principal potential advantage is the pre-infusion. But how much difference does this make? Can I taste it? As noted, I turned the Silvia brew switch on briefly then off to attempt preinfusion (like the method used on the Solis Sl-90).

Russell

[shadowfax]

I think the main advantage of preinfusion is being forgiving of poor tamping. The idea is that non-preinfused machines shoot water at 9 bar onto the puck, which can blast it and cause channeling. Preinfusion soaks the coffee at low pressure and has a more gradual pressure ramp-up, which prevents it from blasting the puck and creating more channeling than crappy distribution alone does.

to verify this, you might tamp lighter on both and compare. do you have a naked portafilter?

[malachi]

when the limiting factor remains consistent, the effects of changes on the other factors is often minimal.

[shadowfax]

by the way, let me heartily recommend against flipping the brew switch on and off. it will more than likely either do nothing at all or blast the puck twice. one thing you might try is opening the steam valve and hitting the brew switch at the same time (and then closing the steam valve after a few seconds), but I don't think this will do much of anything either. I can't remember exactly how the infusion works on Silvia...

basically, I would suggest just forgetting about that part.

[HB]

As part of the testing associated with my recent post on how much coffee to put in a double basket and avoiding gushers, I finally did the side-by-side test of the PIDed Eliane versus the PIDed Silvia.

Hmm-m, I'm with Chris. Any conclusions couched with introductory phrases including "avoiding gushers" is a red flag suggesting a higher level of consistency is required. In my own testing, I won't draw conclusions until I have weeks of consistent data. OK, OK, I admit that I am overly cautious by nature.

Since we're on the topic...

Are there advantages of PIDs in terms of the shot's "absolute potential"? They increase the likelihood of a consistent starting temperature. They have no effect on the temperature during a shot. Someone carefully temperature surfing a Silvia will measurably get the same level of precision (reproducible) and accuracy (absolute temperature) as a PID'd Silvia. So why should we expect better results from a PID'd 'X' versus the same unPID'd 'X', assuming good temperature management skills are employed?

And now my point...

Few would seriously suggest that a stock Silvia is better than an E61 single boiler like Eliane / Amica / Zaffiro. At worse I would expect them to be equivalent. In my experience there was no comparison. Silvia -- love her as I do -- is a fussy gal, her issues with temperament (*groan*) not withstanding.

[russell]

This is only the beginning of a long project. Both machines, PIDed, are sitting in my kitchen. I am now getting very good results with the PIDed Eliane, consistently and without the hastle of timing and surfing. I just have to remember to dry the damned basket before I pour the ground coffee in! The only recent gusher (and it wasn't really a gusher, just a thin extraction) was when I forgot to dry the basket.

So my challenge is to see if I can get the PIDed Silvia to produce coffee, which to my inexperienced palate is as good as what the Eliane is producing, and if I can produce it with about the same ease. I fully concur with Dan's point about the PID not making any better coffee than surfing (or at least either perfect surfing or lucky surfing). The difference is ease and probable consistency.

For the time, I'm going to forget worrying about pre-infusion on the Silvia. A couple of thoughts: would it perhaps be better to move the thermocouple lead down to the side of the boiler under a hose clamp as I did on the Eliane? I notice a lot more volatility in the Silvia's displayed temperature, and I'm not sure if that is all accounted for by the smaller boiler. Also I want to check the minimum warm-up time on each machine to get good coffee; I suspect that that may be one area that the Silvia has an advantage in.

Can any of you tell me the best way to post digital photos? I can then send pictures of the modifications I've made to the machines.

Russell

[HB]

Can any of you tell me the best way to post digital photos?

I recommend Photobucket.com (see this short blurb for more information).