Elektra Semiautomatica with no heat, lights on, but no boiler pressure

[Fullsack]

I start my Elektra Semiautomatica early in the morning with a timer. When I looked at it yesterday AM, two hours after the timer started, the light was on, but no bar pressure and all of the water in the sight glass was gone. The bar pressure has been creeping up almost to the red for a while now. Anyone have an idea what happened? I've made calls to Jim at 1st-Line. Unfortunately, he is the only one there who can help and he hasn't been available.

[Fullsack]

Just heard back from Jim, says it needs descaling, the pressure stat gets clogged from minerals in the water, use distilled water for the boiler. I'll do another post if this works.

[LeoZ]

man you have no luck :/

i thought you RO your water?

[Fullsack]

man you have no luck :/

i thought you RO your water?

Hey Leo!
I used Dasani water, an RO water with minerals added back. I haven't gotten an RO system in my new place yet. I liked your wine, I'll send you an e-mail with more details.
Cheers,
Doug

[another_jim]

I got the sticky pressurestat problem too; and this time around, the push pin maneuver only fixed it for a few days. So, apparently, has everyone else who recently bought the machine, even if they used distilled water. The same debacle happened about two years ago with these same Mater stats, when every Isomac sold inside a 3 month period got the same problem. Mater apparently delivers entire production runs with this defect, and this is the second time it's happened me. Life's too short to mess with a company like that, pay the $50 for the Ceme and simplify your life.

Next time I'm reviewing a machine, no matter how well built, I'm deducting a half to one point if they use Mater pressure stats, since they have such a lousy history.

Order a Ceme from Jim as a replacement. You'll need two 11/16 or metric equivalent wrenches to replace the stat, and a jewellers screw driver to set it. The electrical connections go on COM and NC. The one I got was set too high, and you might want to give it a full turn before you install it. To set it, let the machine warm up with the bottom cover off, and the tank empty. If the pressure goes too high, unplug the machine, tip it on its side, set the pstat and repeat as necessary.

The Cemes are reliable, but have sticky set screws that break easily after the plastic gets old. Set it once and forget it.

[2xlp]

ceme is 50... but sirai is $65 new on ebay

[Fullsack]

I got the sticky pressurestat problem too; and this time around, the push pin maneuver only fixed it for a few days. So, apparently, has everyone else who recently bought the machine, even if they used distilled water. The same debacle happened about two years ago with these same Mater stats, when every Isomac sold inside a 3 month period got the same problem. Mater apparently delivers entire production runs with this defect, and this is the second time it's happened me. Life's too short to mess with a company like that, pay the $50 for the Ceme and simplify your life.

Next time I'm reviewing a machine, No matter how well built, I'm deducting a half to one point if they use Mater pressure stats, since they have such a lousy history.

Order a Ceme from Jim as a replacement. You'll need two 11/16 or metric equivalent wrenches to replace the stat, and a jewellers screw driver to set it. The electrical connections go on COM and NC. The one I got was set to high, and you might want to give it a full turn before you install it. To set it, let the machine warm up with the bottom cover off, and the tank empty. If the pressure goes too high, unplug the machine, tip it on its side, set the pstat and repeat as necessary.

The Cemes are relaible, but have sticky set screws that break easily after the plastic gets old. Set it once and forget it.

I'm going to pass on the descaling, a 2 hour procedure according to 1st-Line instructions, and purchase the Ceme pstat. I'm sure your installation suggestions will save me some headaches.

Thanks Jim.

[another_jim]

ceme is 50... but sirai is $65 new on ebay

It's too large to fit into the Elektra's base

[another_jim]

I'm going to pass on the descaling, a 2 hour procedure according to 1st-Line instructions, and purchase the Ceme pstat. I'm sure your installation suggestions will save me some headaches.

I just did mine today, after a New Year's back on the Tea. (It's nice to have my shots in high fidelity again!) So feel free to email me if you run into any snags.

[howard seth]

I suddenly seem to be having - as of last morning - a sticky pressurestat - problem as well - on my Elektra Semiautomatica. I descaled the machine tonight and the pressure gauge does now cycle off at about 1.5 - instead of going over the red zone- like it did this morning - however 1.5 is a bit higher number than before the sticky stat happened.

I see there is a move to replace the Mater with a Ceme stat above - but that sounds past my technical abilities -

I wonder what to do.

Meanwhile - I noticed that the descaler -Ascor DL- took the thin chrome skin off the inside of the water reservoir to the water line -( it looks coppery now) I diluted this descaler correctly based on the instructions that came with it. I did not run the descaler solution through the boiler/steamer - just the grouphead.)

Sigh, Making tea is a lot less complicated than espresso...

Howard

[gchapman]

Well, Howard, I am going to swap mine out. Maybe we can get Jim to give us some more details on how to do this and take a crack at it. I ordered a Ceme from 1st-Line today (costs $59 now) just to avoid what seems to be certainly coming on my new Automatica. I will save my Mater as a backup.

I can sure appreciate your comments about how complicated espresso can be, but I love the complexity and challenge of it. I have been wonderfully surprised at how forgiving singles are on my Automatica compared to my experience with doubles on my Silvia.

Jim, any possibility of putting together some steps for people who really don't know some of the unspoken directions from your paragraph:

Order a Ceme from Jim as a replacement. You'll need two 11/16 or metric equivalent wrenches to replace the stat, and a jewellers screw driver to set it. The electrical connections go on COM and NC. The one I got was set to high, and you might want to give it a full turn before you install it. To set it, let the machine warm up with the bottom cover off, and the tank empty. If the pressure goes too high, unplug the machine, tip it on its side, set the pstat and repeat as necessary.

Here are the comments on the Ceme pstat page at 1st-Line http://www.1st-line.net/cgi-bin/category.cgi?item=09200014&type=store

* Replacement part for espresso machines that have a small pressurestat
* Two wire connections occur at the 9 and 12 position when unit is situated at 9, 12, and 3 o'clock
* Available in 110 volt only
* Superior to cheaper MATER pressurestats due to fact that these have a stainless steel diaphragm
* Not a returnable item
* Technical support and instructions not included
* Please note that current stock does not have deadband adjustment as shown with offcenter smaller screw - in addition, the deadband adjustment if turned too much would render the pressurestat defective.
* WARNING: If your current pressurestat has limescale buildup, a new pressurestat replacement will fail within the first 6 months and as little as 1 month. therefore, if you see limescale, it is best to descale your machine prior to installation of the new pressurestat as we will not cover the warranty or replacement if the new one fails for this reason.
* WARNING: It is possible that you can adjust the adjustment screw too much, and this will damage the new pressurestat. Therefore, you should only adjust the center screw at maximum of a half turn increment after checking pressure on machine's boiler pressure gauge. If there is an offcenter screw, this one is more prone to damage and we strongly recommend not touching it. We will not replace nor warranty the pressurestat due to adjustment damage by the customer.
Is it true that either electrical connection can go to COM and NC?

I have never tries this before and have some questions - and would be grateful for your answers...

Before installing: A full turn which way to lower the pressure?

After installing: "pressure goes too high... set the pstat" means turn it which way and how far?

The warning on 1st-Line quoted above about turning it more than half a turn contradicts your suggestion. Is this a problem?

Did you know it was set too high before you installed it or are you assuming Cemes are probably all set too high because you discovered yours to be too high?

"Tank empty" means boiler filled to normal levels and reservoir empty, right?


Thanks for your help.

Geoff

[jesawdy]

Jim has posted some instructions in the Article forum... I will dupe them here.

However, the 'how to replace the Mater with the Ceme stat' instructions are not easy for me to understand. What is COM and NC?

In general, I don't encourage people who have no experience fixing things around the house from doing machine repairs; but I guess everyone has to start someplace.

There are two wires with slide on connectors hooked to two of three tongue-like connectors on a pstat. the ones you want are labelled COM (common) and NC (normally closed), the one you don't want is labelled NO (normally open).

0. unplug the machine, allow it to cool, and empty the water tank
1. remove the driptray, remove the Philips screw you see under the tray, put it on a box somewhere. Lay the machine down with the black plastic base towards you, and pull off the base (you may need to use a screwdriver or knife blade to lever it off, it fits snugly. You will see the innards of the machine displayed.
2. The Mater Pstat is a black cylinder with a small box attached, and two wires attached. It is mounted on an l-shaped pipe going into the boiler and is aligned horizontally. It is **not** the box connected to the flex hose from the pump; that's the boiler fill solenoid. See the pic in the review.
3. Have a rag or sponge handy. Use two spanners to open the fitting screw between the pipe and the pstat. Take off the pstat, wipe any water that leaks out. Then ease off the two wires.
4. Take off the little cap with the paint mark on the Ceme, and give the set screw a half clockwise turn (towards the minus sign embossed in the case)
5 Attach the two wires to the Ceme, COM and NC (which wire goes where is not important), and use the spanners to reattach it to the pipe.
6. Put the machine upright, add no water to the tank, don't put on the plastic base, and fire it up.
7. When it reaches the right pressure range, and if the pstat isn't switching off at the right place, unplug the machine, tip it holding the base and tank, and adjust the setting screw about 1/6th turn in the right direction, fire it up and check if it's right. Repeat until you have it properly adjusted. The Ceme has a .2 bar deadband, so ideally have it turn on at the bottom fo the green zone, and turn off at the top.
8. Put the base back, fill the tank, and fire it up.

If you don't feel confident doing this, give the instructions to someone who does this sort of stuff, it's not a tough job.

Now you owe me a good lunch

[gchapman]

Jeff, that is very helpful. I will give it a shot next week when the pstat arrives.

Thanks.

Geoff

[howard seth]

Thanks guys for the info.

Geoff, I hope you post your experience doing the pressurestat switch - so I can decide if I will be brave enough to take the plunge myself.

Howard

[Fullsack]

I suddenly seem to be having - as of last morning - a sticky pressurestat - problem as well - on my Elektra Semiautomatica. I descaled the machine tonight and the pressure gauge does now cycle off at about 1.5 - instead of going over the red zone- like it did this morning - however 1.5 is a bit higher number than before the sticky stat happened.

I see there is a move to replace the Mater with a Ceme stat above - but that sounds past my technical abilities -

I wonder what to do.

Meanwhile - I noticed that the descaler -Ascor DL- took the thin chrome skin off the inside of the water reservoir to the water line -( it looks coppery now) I diluted this descaler correctly based on the instructions that came with it. I did not run the descaler solution through the boiler/steamer - just the grouphead.)

Sigh, Making tea is a lot less complicated than espresso...

Howard

I think Howard's sentiments are those of the majority. Most people who bought the Semi, especially the ones who bought the "shiny toy" at Williams Sonoma, are not going to find their way to H-B or CG. When the pressurestat fails, they will think "I got taken, Italian piece of junk" and it will probably end up as a cobweb catcher in the garage or as a decorative piece for the patio with pansies planted in the water tank. Regardless, the affair with espresso making will be over and all for the want of an upgraded part that would probably only cost Elektra an extra $10.00. It's like powering a Ferrari with a hamster wheel.

[HB]

Most people who bought the Semi, especially the ones who bought the "shiny toy" at Williams Sonoma, are not going to find their way to H-B or CG. When the pressurestat fails, they will think "I got taken, Italian piece of junk" and it will probably end up as a cobweb catcher in the garage or as a decorative piece for the patio with pansies planted in the water tank.

Interesting point! These days more and more people look to the Internet for repair advice. What would you enter in your search query if you had this busted machine? To maximize the chance that the poor Williams Sonoma buyer finds this easy fix, a good title containing some of the same keywords is more likely to be caught by search engines. "Elektra Semiautomatica with no heat, lights on, but no boiler pressure"?

[Fullsack]

Good idea Dan.

[JavaJunkie]

Just been through this process recently myself, and am delighted with the Ceme. Never thought I'd be this enthusiastic about a pressurestat!

The fix was pretty easy. Here were a few of the gotcha's that I encountered...

- To remove the bottom plate - only one screw to undo...the one under the drip tray. After that, don't be shy...be careful for the chrome finish, but firmly tug the bottom plate off. Really. Just one screw...don't be shy.

- You really need the two wrenches to get the Mater pressurestat off. These need to be pretty thin wrenches to fit next to one another. Don't be lazy...get over to the hardware store and spend the $3 to get the right tools.

- Once installed, the Ceme took more than a full revolution in order to engage, and stop the pressure from rising. This is contrary to the warning on 1st-Line's website. Once you see the pressure disengaging at all, then make small incremental adjustments (if the screw were the face of the clock, try adjusting by 5-minute increments...aka 30-degree turns of the adjustment screw). Be sure to adjust the right screw - remove the red cap, and adjust that large screw. Don't mess with the tiny screw that is off-center.

- Pay attention to the markings on the Ceme for which way to turn the screw. Apparently, the direction can change from one production generation to the next for which way increases or decreases sensitivity.

The only part that really gave me any grief was that last point about making the initial adjustments. Everything was pretty easy to remove/install, and the Mater was cruddy as all get-up when I removed it. Definitely the right call to swap out the part!

[another_jim]

Glad the instruction part worked out fairly OK. Let's hope these Cemes last the distance!

I don't recall ever hearing that they get the sticky pstat problem; which is why Jim P sells them as his spare. However, his warning about setting it is justified -- the set screw mount is flimsy, especially after it ages. My advice is that once it's set, don't touch it.

I'm curious about one thing. These are supposed to be set at around 1 bar from the factory; but I had to set mine way down, as did javajunkie. Could it be that when these things are at the bottom of the boiler in water, there's less pressure on the membrane than at the top in steam? I know this makes no physical sense, but it does seem to be the case.

[cannonfodder]

My Isomac had the Cemes as original equipment. Over two years and not one problem. My Pstat was nice and tight as well, .05 bar deadband.