Elektra Microcasa a Leva Techniques I - Page 2

[KarlSchneider]

peacecup,

The header on the main page here promises, "tidbits of information to help you get the best out of your home espresso equipment." We have provided such a tidbit. In addition to the standard wisdom that says "only use the double basket" we have suggested, "try the single." While I have my doubts I plan to try the "Fellini pull" soon.

KS

[srobinson]

I can only say that after a decade of pulling on these machines, that I learn something new all the time. Be it coffee, techique, insight into the engineering or simply a great pull that dazzles me there is aways something new around the corner. There are no finites here... the goal is to develop a style that works for you and continually improve. The frustration and joy of these silly little machines is that improvement is lurking around the corner and unfortunately there is always room to improve....even if it only comes in small increments.

[peacecup]

Karl,

I just posted results and thoughts on eight solos crafted using the "Fellini pull". It's given me the little bit of extra volume (3/4 oz.) that I thought was necessary for a correct solo dose on the Ponte Vecchio. I've also been getting those lovely dark tiger flecks which I hadn't been getting before. I'll be interested to hear how it works with Elektra solos.

I can only say that after a decade of pulling on these machines, that I learn something new all the time.

Steve,

Having only about a month of lever espresso experience (and only five years total espresso brewing) I consider the advice on this forum invaluable. I bought the Ponte Vecchio without ever having pulled a shot on a lever machine, largely because of aesthetics and simplicity, and because I'd read so much here and on coffeegeek. I have not been disappointed. Over this past month my enjoyment of espresso has increased an order of magnitude. I'm very much looking forward to the next nine years and eleven months!

Jack

[KarlSchneider]

Karl,

I just posted results and thoughts on eight solos crafted using the "Fellini pull". It's given me the little bit of extra volume (3/4 oz.) that I thought was necessary for a correct solo dose on the Ponte Vecchio. I've also been getting those lovely dark tiger flecks which I hadn't been getting before. I'll be interested to hear how it works with Elektra solos.

Jack

jack,

I can only report one Fellini Pull so far. And it was the fourth of the evening session when the Elektra is generally too hot. The first two pulls were with a dark roast Yemen Sana'ani and were on spot. The third was a lighter roast of the same beans and was not my style. I went back to the preferred dark roast for the Fellini Pull.

My first observation was that the crema was darker and more mottled and the volume was greater than my usual single pull. In taste I found the "Fellini" quite different. It was thicker in body and while good not as much to my liking. It seems to trade off complexity for density.

What immediately ran through my mind was a champagne tasting years ago. It was all Bollinger and we sampled the full range from Special Cuvee up through vintage Rose, vintage Tradition R.D and even Cuvee Vielles Vignes Francaises. This last one is extremely rare, made from 100% Pinot Noir and comes from pre-phylloxera grapes. The Managing Director at the time, Christian Bizot, was there. He said he would not take a sample of this one giving the rest of us more to taste since one virtually never sees this for sale because so little is produced. He did however say it ws the richest of all the wines. This description confused me because it was actually the lightest in body. But as I tasted it dawned on me that by rich he did ot mean cream on top of chocolate sauce on top of ice cram on top of cake as I interpreted rich i.e., heavy-ness on top of heavy-ness. His rich meant great complexity of flavors that played out in an elegant light context that allowed precisely many flavors to exist in clarity side-by-side. Heavy-ness covers up variations and allows strong simplicity.

I give this detour because the single pull Yemen Sana'ani is rich in this classic French sense of light and greatly complex. The "Fellini Pull" I just had was not rich in this way. It was fine in its strong simplicity.

But I need many more trials.

KS

[srobinson]

I really liked your last post...it got me thinking. I have been equating texture..."mouthfeel" as another dimension to a good shot. Your comment ring back to Chris' discussion a while back on clarity. With your wine analogy it makes me try to remember more memorable wines...were they they more tannin heavy reds or the more delicate french whites....hmmm. As I said two posts back, you learn something everyday.

I am still not sold on this Fellini technique.....

[KarlSchneider]

I really liked your last post...it got me thinking. I have been equating texture..."mouthfeel" as another dimension to a good shot. Your comment ring back to Chris' discussion a while back on clarity. With your wine analogy it makes me try to remember more memorable wines...were they they more tannin heavy reds or the more delicate french whites....hmmm. As I said two posts back, you learn something everyday.

I am still not sold on this Fellini technique.....

Hi Steve,

I am becoming an occasional Fellini Pull advocate. It seems to increase weight and texture at the expense of elegance, complexity. Give me a coffee that can follow the latter path and i will not consider the thickening of the Fellini. But this week's (Fellini) Brazil's are better than or as good as any Brazil's i have had. A Chateauneuf-du-Pape will never be an elegant wine (although Beaucastel pushes this as far as it can be pushed) and if i just want a Chateaueuf I can love it for just what it is. I can enjoy a Brazil pushed to its limits with a Fellini and still net get close to a Yemen and not expect to.

KS

[Hogfire]

Well, it's been awhile since I started experimenting with the single basket, and my results so far have been specious at best. I decided to start using up the SM Classic Italian Espresso Blend because I have an excess of it compared to some of the no longer available SO beans I have stashed (i.e. Sumatra Lingtong Dry-Process which I adore). Seems like I'm still not able to hit the sweet spot of grind and pull technique with the single basket. The infinite adjustment setting of a grinder is both a blessing and a curse in this instance. The best I've been able to achieve with the single basket doesn't suit my palate as much as the double basket so far. Or maybe it's just that this blend (or the robusta within) does better with the double basket's configuration? So far with the single basket my best results have been too harsh, intense, concentrated, overpowering, etc . I realise it all boils down to a subjective matter of taste, and perhaps I'm too used to the the double basket results. I shall endeavour to keep experimenting though because it's been very interesting, and I do not doubt that some beans will prefer the single basket if done properly. All the information here has been enlightening and enjoyable, Ta!

Hogfire

[KarlSchneider]

Well, it's been awhile since I started experimenting with the single basket, and my results so far have been specious at best. I decided to start using up the SM Classic Italian Espresso Blend
<snip>
The best I've been able to achieve with the single basket doesn't suit my palate as much as the double basket so far.
<snip>
So far with the single basket my best results have been too harsh, intense, concentrated, overpowering, etc .

Hogfire

Hi Hogfire,

I am quite familiar with SM's Classic Espresso having used it probably 40% of the of the 2.5 years I had my Giotto. I generally got quite good results so I suspect it is technique.

When you describe it as "harsh, overpowering" I am guessing you might be using too much coffee. Doesn't your machine have a 58 mm basket? How fast do your shots run? I am noting that the "time window" on my Elektra is really rather small as far as the best shots go. The ones that run too slow do tend to be more harsh and more "overpowering" or too concentrated. I have to adjust my grind daily as the beans age to stay in the right time window. I also grind more fine for the single basket.

Keep trying, you will find the spot.

KS

[Hogfire]

Tag Karl,

My machine uses 51mm baskets, same as the Millennium version of Pavoni Levers. Using the Double basket/single pull (and some "Fellini variations") I'm able to achieve what Tom describes the Classic Italian Espresso as being. Initially caramel tones stand out, transpiring into chocolate strains long after the drink has finished, and powerful yet smooth all the way through.

When using the single basket, I've tried adjusting my grind from a 5 second gusher to a 15-20 second strain, forehead-beaded-with-sweat effort. None of these have been as smooth as the double basket results. Mind you, these are the only beans I've tried in comparing the two baskets, and my results are not definitive. Have you made comparisons between the baskets with this blend? What kind of roasting methods do you use (I'm still acquainting myself with the SC/CO combo, still fluid bed like the poppers, but much longer roast profiles)? I don't use a scale to measure out the grinds, but my eyeballing methods have been pretty good as concerns the double basket and tamping. And then, one most consider the physical aspects of the baskets and differences between manufacturers, which may be an overlooked area. Oh mon dieu, the variables and combinations are mind boggling, yet issuing their siren call to come closer, come closer. . .

Hogfire

[KarlSchneider]

Tag Karl,

My machine uses 51mm baskets, same as the Millennium version of Pavoni Levers. Using the Double basket/single pull (and some "Fellini variations") I'm able to achieve what Tom describes the Classic Italian Espresso as being. Initially caramel tones stand out, transpiring into chocolate strains long after the drink has finished, and powerful yet smooth all the way through.

When using the single basket, I've tried adjusting my grind from a 5 second gusher to a 15-20 second strain, forehead-beaded-with-sweat effort. None of these have been as smooth as the double basket results. Mind you, these are the only beans I've tried in comparing the two baskets, and my results are not definitive. Have you made comparisons between the baskets with this blend? What kind of roasting methods do you use (I'm still acquainting myself with the SC/CO combo, still fluid bed like the poppers, but much longer roast profiles)? I don't use a scale to measure out the grinds, but my eyeballing methods have been pretty good as concerns the double basket and tamping. And then, one most consider the physical aspects of the baskets and differences between manufacturers, which may be an overlooked area. Oh mon dieu, the variables and combinations are mind boggling, yet issuing their siren call to come closer, come closer. . .

Hogfire

H.

I find your first para. description of Cl. Es. Blend right on target. Especially what I got from my Giotto with its HX and pump mechanism. I suspect the "Fellini" and the double move a lever closer to the same style as a "semi-auto" pump HX.

I confess that I have not studied the Cl. Es. Blend carefully and have not compared baskets with it. I honestly am disappointed in it since I got my Elektra. I am also disappointed in the results I get from SM's "Monkey Blend" and from their "Moka Kadir" since I got "levered." Those three were my standards with the Giotto (are they optimized for an HX?). Nothing else was quite in the same league. Now I find SO's -- Yemeni, Ethiopian and Brazilian much more exciting.

My roasting has remained the same. I started out with an Alpenrost and quickly moved up to a Hottop. I have not tried either your method or the air roasters. I like the results from a slow drum roasting.

All my baskets are Elektra. I did have three kinds with my Giotto and I did notice a difference in the doubles I had. Never touched a single with the Giotto.

KS

[cannonfodder]

Evening professor. I have to second your roasting sentiments. I starting roasting with a hot air popper, and while it worked pretty good, I often found that my shots were harsh, sharp, bright. I built a drum roaster to specifically extend the roast cycle. I find that it tends to accentuate the darker, deeper tones while the longer roast mutes acidity.

Funny you mention Yemen, Ethiopian and Brazilian. My running favorite blend consists of those three. Chocolate covered blueberries when I nail the extraction.

Having both a HX and lever, I can definitely say that a blend will behave differently between the two. I have had blends that were almost too earthy in my HX that suddenly turned to a smooth chocolate cup in the lever. I almost blend and roast per machine. It is interesting to see how the flavor profile changes between the pump and the lever.

[pchong]

sorry for coming to this thread late, but I use a Microcasa a Leva too...and I am puzzled with the recommendation for the single filter. I had tried it before...and last night, after reading this, I tried it again...all attempts were disaster.

I have pulled some 4000+ shots with the MCaL, so I guess I am not inexperienced. My doubles range from good to excellent...(my own rating, but I am rather harsh with myself, my wife and friends who drink coffee rate it excellent to fantastic, with occassional god shots which rival any they have drunk)

I have tried various types of grind...and from coase to very fine...even with my Mazzer Mini grinding out turkish powder like coffee - yes they are fresh (24 hours after roasting...but I have also tried 36 hours, 48 hours, 4 days after roasting)...I get gushers or chokers. I fear for going even finer on the grinder as I am feeling the burrs mashing.

So, what gives?

[KarlSchneider]

...I get gushers or chokers. I fear for going even finer on the grinder as I am feeling the burrs mashing.

So, what gives?

Dear mchong,

My only suggestion is to try to get a grind and tamp combination that places you in between gushers and choke. The lever should get to its rest position at the top in 30 sec.

Truth be told getting to this range is difficult but it can be done.

KS

[peacecup]

There are four main factors that control flow:

Grind
Dose
Tamp
Beans (freshness, roast level, type)

I recommend starting with a bean or blend you like, and sticking with the roast level. Try to get it fresh every week or two.
Then, measure your dose and stick with it - I use two scoops of whole beans in my hand grinder = 15 g.
Then get consitent with your tamp - you can go for anything up to a very hard tamp (30 lbs) but the main thing is repeatability - when I first started I just tamped basically as hard as I could, then set the grind accordingly. Lately I''ve been tamping more lightly and grinding finer, but this takes more practice to achieve repeatability.

Then, keep beans, tamp, dose, constant, and just adjust the grind to get the flow you want. If you choke the machine, back off a notch, if its too fast, tighten up a notch.

Once you're getting consistent results, you can vary the other parameters one by one to see their effect.

Karl, its good to hear from you - have you been enjoying your two-group machines? I recently aquired a pair of gently used white Nuova Point demitasses that are quite the bee's knees:



PC

[KarlSchneider]

Karl, its good to hear from you - have you been enjoying your two-group machines? I recently aquired a pair of gently used white Nuova Point demitasses that are quite the bee's knees:

PC

Hi PC,

Yes I am indeed still immersed in my 2-group Elektra-Cremina. They give me the most complete range and diversity. I use the Elektra 6 of 7 mornings and for more than half of the evening espressi. I have no interest in replacing either or in getting rid of either. My latest learning passion is a new Hottop Programmable. The learning goes slowly but now more steadily. I have finally settled on 2 profiles. Originally I had 6 profiles and learned far too little with so many variables.

While I like some cups ( Illy Pistoletto for example) more than the Nuova Point I must admit that they remain for me the Ur-cup for espresso. I had my first espresso in a brown one and have never really gotten over that joy.

KS