Electrical trouble on FAEMA E98 A-2 President

[gosuzuki]

I need some help on my espresso machine.

Recently I've got it as used. which manufactured in 2000, sold in Japan. I connected 200V power line and water. As I turned the main switch to "1", expecting pump motor to be moved, but nothing happend, so does pushing brewing buttons. I filled the boiler with water manually with using the lever at the bottom front. Then I turned main as "2" and waited for a few minutes, some noise heard and started to make hot water.
When the pressure gauge indicated green area, I could get steam just right. but still there were no response from the pressing buttons on the front panel. Hot water must come out after turning the knob, which is just a switch for the solenoid valve, works nothing.
I　have checked pomp motor and every solenoids with directly giving 200V and they works.
I've also checked brewing switch panel with tester, disconnecting the connector, and they are just fine.
I pulled out main electric board, only giving the 200V power, the transformer seems working and gives 12V to the output.

I think the problem on this machine seems to be the main electric board, either ROM or related circuit to control relays.
I can NOT spend on a lot of money for replacing the board for the test.
Does anyone help me fixing this problem? With minimum cost?

I am living in Japan, and it is very hard to find a local repair service, plus the cost of each parts is nearly tripled through the agency. For they told me the main board would be around US$1940.

Please HELP me!!!!

[cannonfodder]

Sounds like your brain box is dead, they are very expensive as you have learned. Unfortunately, I don't believe there is anything you can do other than replace it, which might be why the previous owner parted with it. Those boards run several hundred in the states, in your location that will be inflated even more.

The only other thing I can think of, does the machine have a key slot beside the control board? Some machines in a commercial environment have a key that unlocks the programming mode of the keypad. That keeps employees from playing around with the settings. If it was disconnected for a long time, the programming may be gone and the unit will not activate without the key. Just a desperation guess. It would be pretty obvious is there were a key lock for the control unit.

[gosuzuki]

Thank you for the reply, for the first time of my try for this forum. I really appreciated.

And now, what is the key lock? I have a little experience of working with another machine, FAEMA Due a-2, and I thought mine is pretty similar to that one. Actually, I used Due's wiring diagram to seek all the lines for e98, since I do not have a manual for it. The main board is almost the same look in both machines. There are some empty connectors on the board, but I don't know what they are. I guess they are for the options like Electrical cup warmer and Cappuccino Magic kit. For these machines, entering into the programming mode, pressing stop button for a while and then the board start to make beep sound, but not on my machine.

If there is a key lock function other than the programming mode, I will give a try. If not, is there any way I can get a main electric board new or used (working) as reasonable price? I've been looking around on websites, but I have never seen them.

Here is the troublesome brain.

[cannonfodder]

If it has a key lock it would be on the front of the machine, not on the circuit board. You can see an example on mhoy's Elektra T1, just above the green power light on the front of the drip tray and beside the power switch.

As to a rebuild, I have never seen anyone that repairs them. They tend to be throw away parts

[mhoy]

The wire from the key simply makes a circuit. On my system there are two thin wires, a red and white one in my picture that go to the small black connector on the Gicar. (Sorry about how grubby the picture appears, this is before the tear down and cleaning). Your control unit appears to have a two pin white connector on it. You'd want to consult with someone before shorting them out.



Mark

[gosuzuki]

Thank you for advice and pictures about key lock. I certainly understand it, but regrettably, there is no key lock on my machine.





I need to find some other way to fix it.
Does anyone know where I can get the main electric board? or it fixed?

[djmonkeyhater]

A couple things that come to mind:

- The brain boxes are generally pretty tough. Not to say that they can't die, but if you can find someone who knows Faema pretty well make sure that there are no "out of water" or "overheat protection" modes that you might be stuck in. My Futurmat tortured me for months with an issue like that. No autofill, only two of the eight buttons worked until I pressed and held a couple of them for 5 seconds to clear the error. It's run perfectly since then.

Since you are 200v there, I have no idea if you can mail order a 240v brain from the USA and use it. Faema electrics are harder to come by than others I have found. Not more expensive really, just harder to find.

- Are you convinced you need metered dosing? On a machine of this age with a potential problem like this, I'd be tempted to convert it to a semi-auto. That will mean finding a generic auto-fill brain and a couple switches for brewing. It's not too hard to show you what the wiring would look like. The challenge again will be to find one of these - http://www.espressoparts.com/product/R_234/ that will work with 200v.

[CDMTech]

I have done a little work on the Faema machines but you truly have me baffled on this one. I would suggest calling John Ryzak at Jason Enterprises, he is the expert on everything Faema. His number is 877-335-2766. If anyone knows it will be him. Here is a link to their website. http://www.faemasource.com/

[gosuzuki]

Thanks Ray. IT may be little hard for me to ask them on the phone, because of time difference and ability of my English skill of technical term about machines. I will ask them through e-mail.

[barry]

DID YOU CHECK THE FUSE ON THE BRAIN BOARD?


(yes, I'm shouting... I hate hearing 'brain board bad' without any mention of checking the fuses)

[gosuzuki]

Yes, I have checked 2 fuses on the board. Otherwise I may not get 12V from the transformer.

[BobS]

The board is fairly low density electronics. Any half way decent electronics tech should be able to
do enough troubleshooting to narrow the problem down to a couple of components. Excepting to
rom, the rest of the parts look to be standard off-the-shelf parts. The ICs could be shotgunned
by new replacements, but that'd would be a last resort.

I'd take a decent multimeter with a diode function and check all the diodes and transistor junctions (power
off, board out of the machine). Also verify the resistors are somewhat in the resistance range as marked,
though in-circuit it's more of trying to determine if one is open or shorted.

It should be as simple as the driver circuit for the relays has a blown common part.

Take a closer look at the tail end (gold band side) of the 10 ohm resistor next to the lower ULN2803A
Darlington transistor array. It looks like a burn spot extending left to the two capacitors. Or it may
be a shadow.

Bob

[gosuzuki]

Following to the Bob's advice, I checked the parts on the board.
I am not an electrical engineer, so my checking may not be certain.

1. After the power transistor, 5V DC output.
2. Every resistors, with each resistance range
3. diodes

Quite a few different character in resistor and diode on the board, but they work fine when taking off the parts from the board.

Something looks like burning on the board was a drip of coffee-like moisture from the back of cover. I think this made some trouble on the board, but not for sure. Wiping off these spots, the board is clean now.




Now I lost the way again. Should I find the ICs replacement? I'm not for sure if I can find those Malaysian or Thai parts in Japan.

[mhoy]

It could be one of the relays, or the driver of the relay. You may be able to trace back from the connectors which connect to the motor.

The ULN2803A parts probably drive the relays. "The ULN2803A contains eight darlington transistors with common emitters and integral suppression diodes for inductive loads."

One of the other parts is: "HEF4081BP description : PHILIPS - Quadruple 2-input AND gate"

Mark

[CafSuperCharged]

Yes, I have checked 2 fuses on the board. Otherwise I may not get 12V from the transformer.

I cannot help you with expert knowledge of Faema or electronics and would be in a similar position like you. Still some non-expert thoughts.
You checked the fuses - OK. If you deduce the 12V from the transformer to indicate fuses to be OK, I would suggest to take them out and measure.

It looks like the board could be used in machines in 1, 2, 3 or 4 groups. The small DIP switch with 2 switches - would it be in the correct position?
Also, it seems to me the LEDS next to the 4 terminals - which I assume to serve to connect the cables from the switch boards - would light to indicate which of the terminals are active.
Do they light up when you power the board? I would assume this to indicate at least some of the logic to work.

Are the board or switch boards in fact original to your (type/model) machine? So, could it be the switch cables are wired wrongly and shorting something unintendedly?

Do the relays switch when you operate the panel switches?

Have you tried to set the dip switches to 3 or 4 groups maybe to see if other cable terminals come on?

It seems to me the PCB is at least two layers (front and back) - could it be the layers are shorted accidentally somewhere in a bad soldering job, or a front to back connection came lose?

Maybe stupid questions, but these often help speed up a diagnostic process.

Regards
Peter

[barry]

Yes, I have checked 2 fuses on the board. Otherwise I may not get 12V from the transformer.

Did you actually check the fuses, or are you assuming that power from the transformer means they're OK? I ask because one of those fuses if very likely a 250V fuse for the pump motor which, if it failed, would explain your problem. The other fuse is for the brain, and rarely fails w/o something seriously wrong with the brain (short, etc).

[gosuzuki]

I did a risky experiment today.
Taking out the board from the black box, I connected power and some wires outside the machine.
Since relays are not working, I gave direct connection to the relay.
I thought there is 12V DC somewhere on the board, for the transformer outputs 14.5V AC, with no loads.
After the power transistor was 5V DC, and another was 17.5V DC.
I used 17.5V to work the relay, and it worked. All the relay works with following functions like moving solenoid, motor, etc.
Now I assume the driver of the relay or its control unit is out of service, or maybe something else to stop their function.
Does anyone have any idea how I check them?

Talking about the dip switch, the setting is from when I get it, and also same as written in diagram for FAEMA Due-A2. I changed all the setting "00-01-10-11" but nothing has changed, I mean no move.

The LEDS next to the connector of push button never lighted. I think it will turn on when the group is activated.

[gosuzuki]

Give up
I finally gave up on my FAEMA. I had been searching all over the place for the recovery, but I couldn't find the answer. The only way left was to buy a new board, but such is too expensive for me. I decided to sell this one at auction in Japan.

This doesn't mean I gave up on my own espresso, since I started to look in this forum my world has broaden.

Now I am really interested on lever machine. I am planning to get something like La Pavoni professional after I success to sell my FAEMA on good price. I imagine this will going to be another deep world. Is there any suggestion?